Morht. There several ways to spin the ball or go rail first , but as far as CJs method I just keep it simple. I use it just as I posted at #1760 of this thread.
No more no less
John Schmidt's and Corey Deuel's comments on aiming systems
- Thread starter PoolSharkAllen
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Morht. There several ways to spin the ball or go rail first , but as far as CJs method I just keep it simple. I use it just as I posted at #1760 of this thread.
No more no less
Thank you for pointing this out. FYI, I've revised the definition in my online glossary:
helping English: same as "outside English" since it reduces throw away from the pocket (and can even throw the ball toward the pocket). The phrase “helping English” is also sometimes used to refer to CB English that transfers sidespin to the OB in an attempt to help the ball enter a pocket off a point or wall (e.g., using right English to transfer left sidespin to an OB so it will be more like to go in when it hits the right point or wall of a pocket).
Also, FYI, here are definitions from the glossary for other phrases being used in recent posts:
outside English: sidespin created by hitting the cue ball on the side away from the direction of the shot (i.e. on the “outside” of the cue ball). For example, when the cue ball strikes
an object ball on the left side, creating a cut shot to the right, left sidespin would be called “outside English.”
gearing outside English: the amount of outside English that results in no sliding between the cue ball and object ball during contact. Instead, during contact, the CB rolls on the OB like two meshing gears. The result is no throw.
throw: object ball motion away from the impact line (line of centers) due to relative sideways sliding motion between the cue ball and object ball caused by sidespin or a cut angle.
an object ball on the left side, creating a cut shot to the right, left sidespin would be called “outside English.”
gearing outside English: the amount of outside English that results in no sliding between the cue ball and object ball during contact. Instead, during contact, the CB rolls on the OB like two meshing gears. The result is no throw.
throw: object ball motion away from the impact line (line of centers) due to relative sideways sliding motion between the cue ball and object ball caused by sidespin or a cut angle.
Regards,
Dave
When shooting center to edge CTE to achieve the geometrically correct 30 degree cut angle, one should use some outside english.
When shooting with no english the cut angle will be less than 30 degrees.
Question:
When using inside english will the cut angle be even less than no english?
When shooting with no english the cut angle will be less than 30 degrees.
Question:
When using inside english will the cut angle be even less than no english?
depends on the speed
I can't get to a table soon so what is it?
More speed is a greater/thinner cut angle or less/thicker cut angle?
Thanks for your reply.
Adding speed generally reduces throw, so you have to hit thicker. But the amount of reduction is a flattening curve as speed increases, and inside spin itself adds speed (to the rubbing surfaces), so how much thicker depends on the amount of spin+speed and the spin+speed you're comparing with.
pj
chgo
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For cut angles greater than about 20 degrees, there is less CIT at faster speed. There is also less CIT with draw or follow shots, as compared to stun shots. FYI, all throw effects are summarized (with supporting resources) in items 15-26 beneath the videos and illustration here:
Regards,
Dave
Remember those test results are based on speeds not normally used in shot making. Until there are results for speeds below 3mph, these results are not truely reflect the "wide range" of speeds used.
Convert mph to something that can be easily used on a table measures in feet or inches.
3 mph equals 52.8 inches per second, more than 1/2 a 9 ft table in a second.
Count to yourself one thousand one as you shoot and see how far the cb rolls and to see if you see hitting at 3 mph or above. Cause to use those results you must shoot between 3 and 10 mph.
Convert mph to something that can be easily used on a table measures in feet or inches.
3 mph equals 52.8 inches per second, more than 1/2 a 9 ft table in a second.
Count to yourself one thousand one as you shoot and see how far the cb rolls and to see if you see hitting at 3 mph or above. Cause to use those results you must shoot between 3 and 10 mph.
What specific results are you referring to? Please provide a link so I will know what you are looking at. Many of my throw analyses and experiments cover a wide range of speeds, including very slow.
I think 3mph is well within the typical range of pool shots. FYI, here's a summary of typical shot speeds from my speed range resource page, in both miles per hour (mph) and feet per second (fps):
touch: 1.5 mph = 2.2 fps
slow: 3 mph = 4.4 fps
medium-soft: 5 mph = 7.3 fps
medium: 7 mph = 10 fps
medium-fast: 8 mph = 12 fps
fast: 12 mph = 18 fps
power: 15-20 mph = 22-29 fps
powerful break: 25-30 mph = 36-44 fps
Regards,slow: 3 mph = 4.4 fps
medium-soft: 5 mph = 7.3 fps
medium: 7 mph = 10 fps
medium-fast: 8 mph = 12 fps
fast: 12 mph = 18 fps
power: 15-20 mph = 22-29 fps
powerful break: 25-30 mph = 36-44 fps
Dave
creating this illusion consciously makes all the shots appear to be the same
“Someone asked "Why can I play like a pro for a few hours, then have mental lapses and start making mistakes?" My answer surprised him... I said
"The problem is all in your perception of the cue ball, because it's always changing.
We can make the cue ball look smaller by standing further away, or make it look larger by standing closer. We want to be the same distance to give us the "illusion" that the distance is the same.
Once we have established our distance now we are able to do something that is REALLY IMPORTANT. We can see the distance relationship between the cue ball and the object ball, and the lower our eyes, the closer the two balls will appear...the higher our eyes the farther the object ball will appear.
The key is to find the distance relationship YOU PREFER and try to make EVERY shot fit this perception. So, as a rule the closer the cue ball is to the object ball the higher you stand - as the distance increases you're eyes should lower to create the same visual "illusion" - And creating this illusion consciously makes all the shots appear to be the same. This leads to uncanny consistency.” ~ CJ Wiley UnderstandAndBeWise
“Someone asked "Why can I play like a pro for a few hours, then have mental lapses and start making mistakes?" My answer surprised him... I said
"The problem is all in your perception of the cue ball, because it's always changing.
We can make the cue ball look smaller by standing further away, or make it look larger by standing closer. We want to be the same distance to give us the "illusion" that the distance is the same.
Once we have established our distance now we are able to do something that is REALLY IMPORTANT. We can see the distance relationship between the cue ball and the object ball, and the lower our eyes, the closer the two balls will appear...the higher our eyes the farther the object ball will appear.
The key is to find the distance relationship YOU PREFER and try to make EVERY shot fit this perception. So, as a rule the closer the cue ball is to the object ball the higher you stand - as the distance increases you're eyes should lower to create the same visual "illusion" - And creating this illusion consciously makes all the shots appear to be the same. This leads to uncanny consistency.” ~ CJ Wiley UnderstandAndBeWise
aiming and speed
Speed is directly related to english so its always a subjective issue. Jimmy Reid says to visualize a tube (the diameter of the ball) from the cue ball to the hitting spot on the object ball (ghost ball) and English wont effect the direction of the object ball as long as its kept with in this tube. Of course in his video Jimmy shows the butt of his cue going in the reverse direction of the imparted English as does Mosconi in his aiming video. But Mosconi shows how the applied English throws the ball?!? Mosconi and Reid both show to aim the cue ball at the equal opposite spot as the object ball. Speed and much practice is the only way to learn to aim!!!! I learned by trial and error and just mentally formed the shot. Just practice EVERY possible shot with every English for 15 hrs per day 7 days a week for 19 years (I believe Mosconi said he did something like this).
Speed is directly related to english so its always a subjective issue. Jimmy Reid says to visualize a tube (the diameter of the ball) from the cue ball to the hitting spot on the object ball (ghost ball) and English wont effect the direction of the object ball as long as its kept with in this tube. Of course in his video Jimmy shows the butt of his cue going in the reverse direction of the imparted English as does Mosconi in his aiming video. But Mosconi shows how the applied English throws the ball?!? Mosconi and Reid both show to aim the cue ball at the equal opposite spot as the object ball. Speed and much practice is the only way to learn to aim!!!! I learned by trial and error and just mentally formed the shot. Just practice EVERY possible shot with every English for 15 hrs per day 7 days a week for 19 years (I believe Mosconi said he did something like this).
"Less Spin, More Win"
That makes the Game SO complicated. It's easy to make the Game difficult, and Difficult to make the Game easy. I can do pretty much anything with NO SPIN as with spin.
The only exception is if you MUST change the angle coming off the rail, but not to just make the ball and get position. "Less Spin, More Win". 'The Game is the Teacher'
That makes the Game SO complicated. It's easy to make the Game difficult, and Difficult to make the Game easy. I can do pretty much anything with NO SPIN as with spin.
The only exception is if you MUST change the angle coming off the rail, but not to just make the ball and get position. "Less Spin, More Win". 'The Game is the Teacher'
Thanks CJ for the reminder.
I keep forgetting about this one. Keeping the QB and OB at the same distance (achived by lowering or raising your stance) makes every shot look the same.
Jeez, I guess I better add this to my list of practice items.
John
Not sure what your getting at.If I chose to use center ball or inside touch to pocket a ball I need to establish how to go at it both ways.Are you saying one way has more of a guarantee than the other?Don't think this is true,you still have to hit the ball rite both ways.
Creating a aiming error and offsetting that with a stick error doesn't give anyone more rites to the pocket.
It does one thing , cuts the ball more than what your trying.
If it sounds like I'm against it I,m not and I've been playing with it a lot lately and its a challenge for sure.
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Here's a couple of things I've noticed about using a touch of inside. Several times over the past couple of weeks I've lined up bad on long rail shots. I've actually contacted the rail just past the side pocket and had the balls still drop into the corner pocket. I'm shooting at 4" pockets where there is only about a tip's width of play down the rail.
Shooting that same shot with outside makes the object ball move away from the rail as soon as it contacts it, with little chance of going in. With the touch of inside, the ball slides off of the rail and doesn't grab/rebound as much. Yes, I know... Didn't you know that? No lessons, please. Just a positive observation for the plus column.
Another note is the ability to feel when I'm truly cueing at dead center. After training my tip position to be a hair inside on a majority of shots, I understand where center ball is better. I have the ability to judge a hair off of center, so I'm able to detect it and actually be more accurate with the middle of the cue ball. My stop shots stop dead, no spin. A by-product of default cueing to the inside.
Best,
Mike
Shooting that same shot with outside makes the object ball move away from the rail as soon as it contacts it, with little chance of going in. With the touch of inside, the ball slides off of the rail and doesn't grab/rebound as much. Yes, I know... Didn't you know that? No lessons, please. Just a positive observation for the plus column.
Another note is the ability to feel when I'm truly cueing at dead center. After training my tip position to be a hair inside on a majority of shots, I understand where center ball is better. I have the ability to judge a hair off of center, so I'm able to detect it and actually be more accurate with the middle of the cue ball. My stop shots stop dead, no spin. A by-product of default cueing to the inside.
Best,
Mike
THE CUE BALL is the primary target, the Object Ball is the secondary target
You are progressing nicely and I know what you mean about that shot down the rail. Roger Griffis always told me I hit that shot better than anyone because I always used the touch of inside on it. Your shots will start to get more "pure" in more of a piercing trajectory towards the pocket. (please don't take that literally)
This technique is only for a percentage of players, and if it works for you it will be very intimidating to your opponents. And yes, you will also understand center ball better, by always going over slightly FROM it. If you just try to hit center you really get "general" in your aiming and that does lead to not concertrating on hitting the cue ball precisely enough.
Always remember, THE CUE BALL is the primary target, the Object Ball is the secondary target. The important thing about aiming is how you connect these two targets BEFORE you get down on a Straight Line. "The Line of the Shot".
Here's a couple of things I've noticed about using a touch of inside. Several times over the past couple of weeks I've lined up bad on long rail shots. I've actually contacted the rail just past the side pocket and had the balls still drop into the corner pocket. I'm shooting at 4" pockets where there is only about a tip's width of play down the rail.
Shooting that same shot with outside makes the object ball move away from the rail as soon as it contacts it, with little chance of going in. With the touch of inside, the ball slides off of the rail and doesn't grab/rebound as much. Yes, I know... Didn't you know that? No lessons, please. Just a positive observation for the plus column.
Another note is the ability to feel when I'm truly cueing at dead center. After training my tip position to be a hair inside on a majority of shots, I understand where center ball is better. I have the ability to judge a hair off of center, so I'm able to detect it and actually be more accurate with the middle of the cue ball. My stop shots stop dead, no spin. A by-product of default cueing to the inside.
Best,
Mike
You are progressing nicely and I know what you mean about that shot down the rail. Roger Griffis always told me I hit that shot better than anyone because I always used the touch of inside on it. Your shots will start to get more "pure" in more of a piercing trajectory towards the pocket. (please don't take that literally)
This technique is only for a percentage of players, and if it works for you it will be very intimidating to your opponents. And yes, you will also understand center ball better, by always going over slightly FROM it. If you just try to hit center you really get "general" in your aiming and that does lead to not concertrating on hitting the cue ball precisely enough.
Always remember, THE CUE BALL is the primary target, the Object Ball is the secondary target. The important thing about aiming is how you connect these two targets BEFORE you get down on a Straight Line. "The Line of the Shot".
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Mikjary,
I have been thinking...
You mentioned here that you use a parallel shift of the bridge and cue to effect a bit of inside english. Other/s say that back hand english can be used as well.
I do not see that they both can effect the same result.
Thanks Mike
Be well.:smile:
I have been thinking...
You mentioned here that you use a parallel shift of the bridge and cue to effect a bit of inside english. Other/s say that back hand english can be used as well.
I do not see that they both can effect the same result.
Thanks Mike
Be well.:smile:
I agree with this, too...the purpose of CTE systems (like most, really) is to line you up for center ball to center pocket--then you take it from there with English, draw, follow, etc. The purpose of BHE is to negate the effect of deflection/squirt of the cue ball by shifting your angle of attack on the cue ball. The purpose of CJ's technique (for lack of a better term) is to purposely use the deflection caused by parallel shift to "touch of inside", aiming NOT at the center of the pocket, but the near side/third of the pocket.
If you combine CJ's technique with another system that aligns you to hit center pocket, all you're doing is cutting out half the pocket and purposely shifting the cueball's track AWAY from center pocket instead of toward it. BHE negates the effect, so if you're aiming at the near third of the pocket, that's likely the best result you can expect and you'll probably hit thick as often as not. Combining it with CTE, I'd recommend adjusting the CTE to hit the outside third of the pocket, then adjust to (parallel) touch of inside; if you're starting at the center line of the pocket, you're only limiting yourself. At this point I wouldn't see the advantage of CTE in conjunction with this system; seems like it's all self-defeating.
The actual effect is way less pronounced than it appears on the diagram. My personal finding is that if you use CTE to put your body in the right position and then come into the shot with a touch of inside and aimed slightly away from center pocket to favor the side that makes the pocket bigger then it works.