Johnny V aiming system... The Clock
- Thread starter Billiard Architect
- Start date
... assuming you accurately estimate the "clock angle" for the cut in the first place and accurately recreate it with the CB/OB overlap.
Here's a way to describe this system that I think most will find easy to follow:
Visualize the CB and OB sitting on a clockface with the CB at 6 o'clock and the OB (ghost ball is more accurate) at the center, with the "hour hand" pointed at the target pocket. Estimate the "time" as carefully as possible (9 to 12 o'clock on the left or 12 to 3 o'clock on the right).
To duplicate that cut angle with the CB/OB alignment, visualize the same clockface and hour hand on the CB (as you face it while shooting) and visually overlap the CB/OB so that the "V" where their upper edges intersect is at the same "time" on the CB "clock".
Estimating the "time" (and recreating it on the CB) as accurately as possible is key to the accuracy of this system. For example, visualizing/recreating the "time" to within 1/5 hour (to the nearest "minute mark" on the clock) is only accurate enough for shots within about 2 feet of the pocket (assuming no other errors in execution). So although that's more accurate than most other similar systems, fine-tuning "by feel" will probably be a necessary part of using this system.
pj
chgo
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I like the system, it's cute. Big kudos to the OP.
For the life of me, I don't understand how you envision the clock number position and aim the overlap to the opposite point accurately enough to use it. It looks great in a forum, but if you have a 3:30 cut that's 6.5 feet away and you're trying to figure this system out for the cash, i think you'd dog it. I have a hunch you'd flinch at the overlap part.
I'm not knocking, I promise. I'm staring at my monitor wondering how someone could use it in real life under pressure.
For the life of me, I don't understand how you envision the clock number position and aim the overlap to the opposite point accurately enough to use it. It looks great in a forum, but if you have a 3:30 cut that's 6.5 feet away and you're trying to figure this system out for the cash, i think you'd dog it. I have a hunch you'd flinch at the overlap part.
I'm not knocking, I promise. I'm staring at my monitor wondering how someone could use it in real life under pressure.
SpiderWebComm said:
Like anything else, it's something you would have to practice and get used to so that when it came time to use it, you would not lose your focus.
I think the key to it is its simplicity, especially for newer players who can't really visualize how the balls have to interact to drive the object ball in a particular direction.
I also think it's absolutely necessary to explain it correctly to a new player:
1. They must approach the object ball, not just stand back and look at it.
2. They must determine the desired direction of the shot by looking directly down on the object ball and translate the direction to a time on their imagined clock face.
3. They must then get their head DOWN on the shot and imagine the same clock face and time on the cue ball.
4. They must shoot the cue ball so that the the center of the cue ball is driven past a certain spot so that the balls intersect at the desired (time) point.
I think that if they are made to understand this, and they follow ALL the steps every time, it will work when they need it.
When they have experience with the system and are comfortable with it, then they can begin to "adjust as needed".
SpiderWebComm said:
I agree that visualizing these "overlap" alignments is more difficult on the table, but that's true of all overlap systems: fractional, double-overlap, maybe even CTE to a degree (which relies on a half-ball overlap as its starting point). I think that once you've found the right "time" on the CB it's probably about as easy to line up with its corresponding "time" on the OB as it is to line up matching ball parts using other systems - and this system's unique features are still added benefits.
I probably wouldn't use any aiming system, including this one, because I easily visualize aiming alignments without them and think that's most accurate and flexible. But I can see immediately that this one's unique features make it stand out from the crowd.
pj
chgo
Looks like a variation of Marvin Chen's equal parts system.
Well, it is in that it ends up with the same overlap, but it gets there by an entirely different method which really uses the third dimension. The ghost ball system ends up with the same overlap, as does the inch-and-an-eighth system, but that's because they are all geometrically correct.JoeyInCali said:
(If anyone is looking for a reference, it's Marvin Chin's "Billiards Accuracy," 1982, PB.)
Great system but i find it alot easier just to aim the edge of the cueball to a spot on the objectball. As its the same point on the cueball now all i need to know which point on the objectball, center quarter or edge.
I played with the system a little tonight. figuring an accurate overlap when your eye isn't ball-level is a challenge.
What I did was stand behind the shot, squat to a knee to find my overlap spot (as if reading a green in golf), and then slid into position. Tedious, but it works assuming one has good perception. 3D space makes this tough.
CTE isn't an overlap system. I just see that line, position my body, pivot and make the ball. I don't envision an overlap. It's my humble opinion that any system that requires you to figure a % overlap is tough due to distance and sight elevation.
This system works. It just leaves too much room for variation.
What I did was stand behind the shot, squat to a knee to find my overlap spot (as if reading a green in golf), and then slid into position. Tedious, but it works assuming one has good perception. 3D space makes this tough.
CTE isn't an overlap system. I just see that line, position my body, pivot and make the ball. I don't envision an overlap. It's my humble opinion that any system that requires you to figure a % overlap is tough due to distance and sight elevation.
This system works. It just leaves too much room for variation.
I'm I the only one that can aim without some system?
I look, I see, my brain says "hit here" and a big flashing arrow appears pointing at the point I need to hit. (ok I made up the the flashing arrow part)
I mean it all seems so natural ...unlike trying to figure out all these systems.
I look, I see, my brain says "hit here" and a big flashing arrow appears pointing at the point I need to hit. (ok I made up the the flashing arrow part)
I mean it all seems so natural ...unlike trying to figure out all these systems.
Johnny, you're a man after my own heart. Awesome, and seemingly simple. I'm going to try it tomorrow.
A couple of things I wonder about though. One is perspective and seeing the actual corresponding "time" on the visually bigger closer cueball. The other is the translation from the above-table view of a 2-dimensional clockface to both the standing 3-dimensional shot view (dependent on one's height and distance from the OB) and the relatively 2-dimensional ready-to-shoot view. Are the angles going to be the same? Are they skewed too much in the rotation from above to behind?
Anyway, it's cool, and I'm glad you're sharing it.
A couple of things I wonder about though. One is perspective and seeing the actual corresponding "time" on the visually bigger closer cueball. The other is the translation from the above-table view of a 2-dimensional clockface to both the standing 3-dimensional shot view (dependent on one's height and distance from the OB) and the relatively 2-dimensional ready-to-shoot view. Are the angles going to be the same? Are they skewed too much in the rotation from above to behind?
Anyway, it's cool, and I'm glad you're sharing it.
There are 2 drawbacks that I see with the system.
1) for long shots you are basically putting the cueball where it needs to be. With any system long shots are a problem because it really is whether or not you can get the ball there.
2) This one is a little hard to explain so I will do my best. If you are not at the equator level on the shot then the "V" moves. The good thing is from 0-5 degrees the V does not move significantly enough to make a difference though.
Do I use this system? I came up with it trying to teach my 8 year old how to look at a shot. I was trying to teach him about fractional aiming and he just wasn't seeing it. So I started to explain it like a clock and bent down to show him where the contact point was with the ghost ball in place and thats when I saw the V. I personally shoot by feel now. I will resort to center to center stick aiming if a shot does not feel right. Let me also say that I do not rip up tournaments either.
1) for long shots you are basically putting the cueball where it needs to be. With any system long shots are a problem because it really is whether or not you can get the ball there.
2) This one is a little hard to explain so I will do my best. If you are not at the equator level on the shot then the "V" moves. The good thing is from 0-5 degrees the V does not move significantly enough to make a difference though.
Do I use this system? I came up with it trying to teach my 8 year old how to look at a shot. I was trying to teach him about fractional aiming and he just wasn't seeing it. So I started to explain it like a clock and bent down to show him where the contact point was with the ghost ball in place and thats when I saw the V. I personally shoot by feel now. I will resort to center to center stick aiming if a shot does not feel right. Let me also say that I do not rip up tournaments either.
Johnny "V" said:
Hi Johnny:
I would like to invite you to check out one of our free programs, The Aiming Calculator http://cuetable.com/Software/BilliardAimingCalculator/index.htm . I believe it will help to demonstrate your point. By dragging either CB, OB or Target around the table you can get an instant readout of the aiming data... More features will come later
Attachments
Actually, the clockfaces on both balls tilt to remain perpendicular with your line of sight, and the "time" on both balls forms the same V, the same CB/OB overlap, and the same cut angle. You can move your eyes in a continuous movement from horizontal all the way up to directly overhead (where you visualize the angle in the first place), and the V/overlap/cut angle will remain the same all the way.
The difficulty is that, even though the "times" remain in their correct positions on both balls, it gets harder to align them with each other (to form the V) the farther from horizontal you go - but if you can align them accurately then the CB/overlap/cut angle remains accurate.
This is the same as the difficulty you'd have aiming a rifle from your hip (or anywhere but at eye level), and the same as the (smaller) difficulty you already have because your eyes are always at least a few inches above ball level. And, by the way, it's the same difficulty we all have with every other kind of aiming, with any system or none.
pj
chgo
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TheConArtist said:
I've been experimenting lately with using the edge. Being that it's only one point makes it easy to locate. The only thing left is recognizing the shot you're faced with. If you know the angle, that's 95% of the battle. I think this shot recognition is the most important thing to master if using a reference system like ball fractions.
Dead Crab and jondrum's technique is great for this. Dr. Dave's "finger spreading" technique is great too. My squares technique is also designed to do this. None of these are probably catching on though.
There are many ways to line up the shot once you know which shot it is. Knowing the shot to line up is the bigger challenge in my opinion.
cuetable said:Hi Johnny:
I would like to invite you to check out one of our free programs, The Aiming Calculator http://cuetable.com/Software/BilliardAimingCalculator/index.htm . I believe it will help to demonstrate your point. By dragging either CB, OB or Target around the table you can get an instant readout of the aiming data... More features will come later
Here's the Aiming Calculator with the "V" system overlaid on it:
If you look closely, you can see that Wei's Aiming Calculator cue ball already has markings at the appropriate "time" locations.
pj
chgo
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