Joint Design Differences

kasparovII

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have never owned a custom cue, but I am putting together my specifications. My experience has always been with stainless steel joints. But I see that the radial pin or a 3/8 x10 joint seems to be the joint of choice on most high end cues. Therefore, I am in need of comparative information as it relates to "hit", balance, etc.. I have read that the standard stainless steel (5/16x 14) is obviously the heaviest and some say interferes with a cue's feel and sensitivity....which I can see is a valid opinion. That said, the wood to wood 3/8ths or radial joint is lighter and allows for a geater sense of feel, speed control, etc.
So my first question is asking you for opinions regarding this aspect,comparing the radial / 3/8ths / SS, piloted joints.
My next question is, if I assume that I will choose a wood to wood radial or 3/8th joint, how does ivory differ with phenolic sleeves? I have heard that ivory has a softer hit than the different fiber based phenolic, eforyn, micarta, etc.. I have also seen cues that utilize other natural materials like water buffalo horn, etc.. I realize these questions are rather nebulous but any input from those of you who actually build cues would help immensely in putting together my specifications for a custom cue.
Thank much, in advance.
KII / dpeshe@live.com
 
Kasparov

A 5/16x14 does not have to be steel, so it does not have to be heavy. As well, the 3/8x10 and Radials can be made with a steel collar and would then be heavy.

What you are describing is somewhat correct about the weight, but it does not necessarily apply to the pin, just the overall materials the joint is built with.

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
I like the finer pitch 18 TPI threads myself. It allows for the handle and shaft to be joined together tighter for the same torque amount.
On my cues have a pilot or spigot that does the radial alignment, the face of the shaft and handle does the other alignment.The threaded part is just a mechanism to pull the 2 parts very tightly together. The tighter the assembly, the better is the transfer and the stronger it all becomes.
To test the effectiveness of the joint, if you hold the cue lightly and tap the handle the shaft should vibrate about the same as if you hit the shaft. I don't mean hit it with something else, just the palm or knuckels of your hand.
Neil
 
I have never owned a custom cue, but I am putting together my specifications. My experience has always been with stainless steel joints. But I see that the radial pin or a 3/8 x10 joint seems to be the joint of choice on most high end cues. Therefore, I am in need of comparative information as it relates to "hit", balance, etc.. I have read that the standard stainless steel (5/16x 14) is obviously the heaviest and some say interferes with a cue's feel and sensitivity....which I can see is a valid opinion. That said, the wood to wood 3/8ths or radial joint is lighter and allows for a geater sense of feel, speed control, etc.
So my first question is asking you for opinions regarding this aspect,comparing the radial / 3/8ths / SS, piloted joints.
My next question is, if I assume that I will choose a wood to wood radial or 3/8th joint, how does ivory differ with phenolic sleeves? I have heard that ivory has a softer hit than the different fiber based phenolic, eforyn, micarta, etc.. I have also seen cues that utilize other natural materials like water buffalo horn, etc.. I realize these questions are rather nebulous but any input from those of you who actually build cues would help immensely in putting together my specifications for a custom cue.
Thank much, in advance.
KII / dpeshe@live.com
In the last 2 years or so I switched from building SS joint with a 5/16x14 pin to a radial joint pin with phenolic or sleeved Ivory. I like the radial pin because you still get some of the forward balance lilke SS. I also use it because you get a really good fit with the joint pin and the threaded shaft. More contact IMO.
 
I have never owned a custom cue, but I am putting together my specifications. My experience has always been with stainless steel joints. But I see that the radial pin or a 3/8 x10 joint seems to be the joint of choice on most high end cues. Therefore, I am in need of comparative information as it relates to "hit", balance, etc.. I have read that the standard stainless steel (5/16x 14) is obviously the heaviest and some say interferes with a cue's feel and sensitivity....which I can see is a valid opinion. That said, the wood to wood 3/8ths or radial joint is lighter and allows for a geater sense of feel, speed control, etc.
So my first question is asking you for opinions regarding this aspect,comparing the radial / 3/8ths / SS, piloted joints.
My next question is, if I assume that I will choose a wood to wood radial or 3/8th joint, how does ivory differ with phenolic sleeves? I have heard that ivory has a softer hit than the different fiber based phenolic, eforyn, micarta, etc.. I have also seen cues that utilize other natural materials like water buffalo horn, etc.. I realize these questions are rather nebulous but any input from those of you who actually build cues would help immensely in putting together my specifications for a custom cue.
Thank much, in advance.
KII / dpeshe@live.com

i made my playing cue with a capped ivory joint with a radial pin.love the hit.my customer cues come with a linen phenolic, wood to wood joint with a radial pin.ivory has a slightly softer hit than phenolic joint and ofcourse ss the hardest.i would try and try as many different joint combos as u can.then talk to ur cuemaker and choose one.radial has the most contact surface and that is why it has such a good response.good luck creating a cue.
 
I have never owned a custom cue, but I am putting together my specifications. My experience has always been with stainless steel joints. But I see that the radial pin or a 3/8 x10 joint seems to be the joint of choice on most high end cues.

This should probably be qualified, as there are a lot of Szamboti, Tascarella, Black and of course Balabushka cues with this joint... I would have to say those are 'high-end' cues by most people's standards

Therefore, I am in need of comparative information as it relates to "hit", balance, etc.. I have read that the standard stainless steel (5/16x 14) is obviously the heaviest and some say interferes with a cue's feel and sensitivity....which I can see is a valid opinion.

Hit and balance are two separate issues. It seems a more forward balance is preferred; however we continue to make the joint connection lighter. I agree that we like to approach the sensitivity and continuity of a one-piece cue; but at the same time, with a joint in the middle, we can tailor the weight of the cue and where it is placed to achieve the OVERALL weight desired, with the balance point also where it is desired. These are separate, yet connected issues, and why it is not necessarily so easy to achieve both for a customer when wood selections are set etc.

That being said, steel joints can be heavier or lighter based on the pin length and sleeve wall thickness.

That said, the wood to wood 3/8ths or radial joint is lighter and allows for a geater sense of feel, speed control, etc.

As mentioned, this is not an absolute- a 3/8-10 can be as heavy or heavier than a 5/16-14 dependent on what the maker does to meet the customer's (and their own) demands for joint construction, total cue weight and balance point in the cue.

So my first question is asking you for opinions regarding this aspect,comparing the radial / 3/8ths / SS, piloted joints.

This is TOTALLY subjective as any well constructed joint will transfer energy well, and a poorly constructed joint will not transfer it as well. It varies more from maker to maker than from joint type to joint type in my opinion. You need to get some custom cues in your hands and try them. You may well find the joint style you THOUGHT you might like is actually not what you end up liking the most at the end of the day.

My next question is, if I assume that I will choose a wood to wood radial or 3/8th joint, how does ivory differ with phenolic sleeves?

If it is a wood to wood connection, the sleeve will have LESS (note I did not say NO) impact than for example a conventional 5/16-14 joint where the energy is transferred through the joint material (Ivory, steel etc. and also the joint screw itself) before being transferred back to the wood of the butt.

I have heard that ivory has a softer hit than the different fiber based phenolic, eforyn, micarta, etc..

In the example I gave above, that is true.

I have also seen cues that utilize other natural materials like water buffalo horn, etc..

Horn tends to be similar to Ivory (with identical construction methods from the same cue maker). Comparing Ivory to Horn has shown no appreciable difference to me- others may find more of a difference; however no two cues are TRULY identical, so this testing is always subjective as you will learn as you try more and more cues out yourself.

To close, I think it is important to try as many cues as you can. Lay out a bunch on a table and have a helper set up balls while you hit them so you are not looking at the cues- a blind test. A perfect example of this is the Ariel Carmeli cue I have now. It has a joint I would not have gone for myself (3/8 radial); however the hit and feel are fantastic on that cue- they way I like it at least... Once you narrow your search to a maker you like, try as many of that maker's cues as you can. Often, since cues are made of natural materials, one cue will shine above others regardless of joint type and wood used (or anything else for that matter) and like shopping for a car, a test drive is always the way to go. You may be surprised with the results you end up with, but you will have the cue in your hands that is right for you, and THAT is the name of the game...:wink:
 
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