Josey Or Arnot?

[ridewiththewind]

I have to chime back as well with my experiences. I first tried out a Josey when I bought a SP with a leather wrap. Loved the way it played, but I could not get use to the wrap. Now that I have a wrapless, "dead" would be the last word I use to describe my Josey. I have played extensively (over 2 years) with a SS joint Scruggs, and that may be the only cue that I would pick over my Josey today and that has a lot to do with the value of the Scruggs (which I stupidly sold years ago).

I know that if you tell someone that the cue you own makes you a better player, they would laugh and say that it's all in your mind. But since I've started using my Josey, my game has improved noticeably. It may just be the confidence I have when using it, but I know that I have the best equipment available.

My first Josey improved my game easily by 3 balls....like immediately. I sold it stupidly when I acquired a Tucker...which I loved also. A year later, I sold the Tucker back to the person I had purchased it from, because he kinda wanted it back, badly. Still miss that cue. Later lost my job and sold just about everything I owned...except my current Josey and an old road warrior wrapless full splice Helmstetter....which I get pretty great breaks with. I am happy...got a nice set-up that works for me...and I smile every single time I pull my Josey out of the case, because it means I get to play with it again!

 

[ridewiththewind]

If there were any doubts....

Keith just told me he sold all but two cues he took to the SBE last week. Not too shabby for cues that have been alleged to play "dead, dead, dead".

Honestly....don't take my word for it. If there is an interest, then give Keith and Sherri a call and talk over your needs with them.

800-514-CUES
912-356-1816

 

[HueblerHustler7]

If there were any doubts....

Keith just told me he sold all but two cues he took to the SBE last week. Not too shabby for cues that have been alleged to play "dead, dead, dead".

Honestly....don't take my word for it. If there is an interest, then give Keith and Sherri a call and talk over your needs with them.

800-514-CUES
912-356-1816

I have no doubts if anything, I believe that Keith's cues are amazing and like you said (may not be for everyone), just am looking for some friendly experienced cue owners before jumping into a purchase

You say only two cues left from the trip or two cues left in general ( as in he took everything he made with him )?

Thanks again people keep the info coming Im a sponge and your info is the liquid.

 

[poolplayer2093]

picture contest is the only way to settle this!!

 

[ridewiththewind]

I have no doubts if anything, I believe that Keith's cues are amazing and like you said (may not be for everyone), just am looking for some friendly experienced cue owners before jumping into a purchase

You say only two cues left from the trip or two cues left in general ( as in he took everything he made with him )?

Thanks again people keep the info coming Im a sponge and your info is the liquid.

Typically, the SBE is THE show of the year. I'm guessing Keith took everything he had. Any time you walk away with with little to no inventory...it was a good show.

Look....Keith's build times have gotten longer than when I got my cue roughly two years ago now. Longer build times usually equates to more orders. More orders means higher demand. Higher demand means more people are discovering his cues and their playability, and want one for themselves...or in many cases, an additional one. His fans are pretty loyal...that speaks volumes.

 

[ridewiththewind]

Honestly...this is a very personal decision....I completely get it. Welcome to the beginning of your journey....no matter what cue maker you choose.

I offered you my multiple personal experiences with not only Keith and Sherri Josey, but their cues as well. Many others here have offered their personal experiences as well, positive and negative. It is ultimately your decision.


I will offer you this one last piece of advice.....if you are on the phone or in the middle of email negotiations, and you get an uneasy feeling in the gut....look elsewhere. Seriously.

 

[sengkun108]

i don't have any arnot...so i can not put a comment.. But, i used to have a josey..not his sneaky pete but a plainjane one ...tiger maple with a nice red/brown irish linen....i sell it to chuckles because i like sugartree hit more better...but if someone tell you that josey hit is "DEAD" ...that guy absolutely wrong...Josey hit very good... you can move the ball very easy...balance is very very good more good than my sugartree....good looking cue, very clean work...and his customer service is AAAAAA+++++....the best experience i ever done with a cuemaker.....:thumbup:

PS : you can see my josey in Wanted/sell section and for 385$ is absolutely a steal ....chuckles pay me more for that cue:sorry:

 

[Poolplaya9]

He never said he had a Josey....just says that they play "dead, dead, dead".

I get really annoyed when people who have no real practical experience chime in.

And I get really annoyed when people can't read and comprehend.

I also get really annoyed when people make untrue claims based on absolutely nothing (which by definition makes it an intentional lie) like saying someone has "no practical experience" on the topic when it isn't true and they had nothing to back up such claim.

I also get really annoyed when somebody tries to condemn someone else for their opinion on something that is totally 100% subjective and personal preference, just because they don't happen to share that same preference.

When I made this post, I was thinking to myself, "even though this topic is a 100% subjective and personal preference type thing, as hard as I'm going to try to avoid it I bet some idiot is still going to get on here and try to attack me over my preference". Guess what, it happened. Look, I don't happen to agree with you over what makes for the best tasting breakfast cereal. Get over it. It's just a preference. There is no right or wrong.

I had gone out of my way to explain that there is no right or wrong on something like this that is totally subjective and personal preference, and that I was offering my differing opinion to illustrate to the OP that A) not everybody out there likes the Josey hit and therefore he may not either depending on his preferences, and B) that peoples opinions don't matter and can't be trusted anyway, because one person will think the hit is great and lively, and the next will think it is terrible and dead. There simply is and never will be any cue that pleases all people unanimously, and he won't know his preference on a Josey or any other cue until he actually tries it--he can't learn it from asking other people.

I've played with several Josey cues fairly extensively (have used them for several entire tournaments among other whole days of use). No I have never owned one, and why would I when I hate the way they hit? I've certainly used them enough to be qualified to have a personal opinion. I stand by what I said, the hit is dead--based on my preference for feel. As I so clearly pointed out repeatedly, others have an entirely different preference and enjoy them.

I even said great things about them, that I think they are a great cue made by a great business, just that their hit was not for me and that unlike how some of you fanboys tried to portray it, not every single last person on the entire earth will like the hit. I've recommended them to friends on numerous occasions when I know that they like that type of hit and feel.

Your attack on me and my personal preference was completely out of line.

 

[Poolplaya9]

...but if someone tell you that josey hit is "DEAD" ...that guy absolutely wrong...Josey hit very good...

And here is exhibit B. See the post above.

No I am not wrong. They hit like crap and the feel is dead--for me. They hit great and the feel is great--for you. There is no right or wrong. It's all personal preference.

Now craftsmanship, or customer service, among other things, are things that are fact based, not preference based, and can legitimately be argued. But "hit" and "feel" are not. Those things are just a subjective personal preference and what is right for one is wrong for another.

 

[scsuxci]

And here is exhibit B. See the post above.

No I am not wrong. They hit like crap and the feel is dead--for me. They hit great and the feel is great--for you. There is no right or wrong. It's all personal preference.

Now craftsmanship, or customer service, among other things, are things that are fact based, not preference based, and can legitimately be argued. But "hit" and "feel" are not. Those things are just a subjective personal preference and what is right for one is wrong for another.

I think your right and have every right to state what your experience is "good or bad".I'm not sure if it's against the rules,that if you go against the general consensus of the people on the forum your suddenly plagued as somebody that has no clue?
The OP asked for opinions and you gave yours,it should be respected as well as everyone elses!

 

[HueblerHustler7]

Ok Ok guys no more ripping on people (personal) opinion on what they think of the feel.

The reason I started this topic was to see how people would describe there feel or hit. Not to see people disagree on things and attack one another.

THIS TOPIC is for DESCRIPTION, not for agreeing or disagreeing.

So please keep to the topic and if you have anything helpful to say then post it. If not just go find another topic please Thank you.

 

[pwd72s]

Well, it's too bad you're in Illinois and I'm in Oregon. I'd let you shoot a game or two with my Josey & let you make up your own mind.

As for myself? I've found the cue I like...I consider myself lucky to have
found it as soon as I did.

There is another player who shoots with a Josey in the hall I go to. His made in 2004, mine in 2007. His a linen wrapped fancy sneaky. mine a linen wrapped old style with four veneered sharp points. We traded for a game or two. Trading back to our own cues, we both were amazed how alike they played. Keith's cues are very consistant in feel and hit...no matter how you choose to describe it.

So, if you try one, you'll know what another feels like.

Like I posted earlier..if a cue feels good to you, keep it!

 

[ridewiththewind]

based on my preference for feel[/I]. As I so clearly pointed out repeatedly, others have an entirely different preference and enjoy them.

This makes absolutely no sense....most people will not play with a cue that they cannot abide the hit of during, of all things, a tournament....on more than one occasion. I don't know about you, but when there is money involved, I want my most formidable weapon in my hands.

The reason you received backlash to your post was because you stated for the OP to "stay away" because they feel "dead, dead, dead". But you didn't qualify that statement....what type of shaft(s) were on the cues you used? Keith offers many, many options. I have heard some people say that have had lake submerged shafts that they play 'dead'. I have never met a laminated LD shaft I liked...feel 'dead' (but I don't go running into threads concerning people interested in LD shafts and tell them to 'stay away'). What type of tip(s) was on the cue? As you must know....tips can make or break the way a cue feels and plays.

I have had cues that I didn't care at all for the hit of....but I do not go running into threads about those cues and tell people to 'stay away' because I didn't like it.

Sorry if I was raised that if you have nothing nice to say, it's better left unsaid.

 

[Poolplaya9]

This makes absolutely no sense....most people will not play with a cue that they cannot abide the hit of during, of all things, a tournament....on more than one occasion. I don't know about you, but when there is money involved, I want my most formidable weapon in my hands.

I think it is clear that I would have rather not been playing with that cue during those times, and frankly it is none of your business why or how it happened. There were several times when I went to a pool hall near work and after work when I hadn't been expecting to play a tournament or whatever but decided to go at the last minute. I hadn't brought my cues with me, and it was too far to go to go home to get them, and the house cues were worthless. I would borrow a buddy's spare cue, which a couple of times happened to be a Josey. That's one example of how it happened since you seem so concerned.

The reason you received backlash to your post was because you stated for the OP to "stay away" because they feel "dead, dead, dead".

You really need to work on reading comprehension--desperately. Go back and reread my posts. I never said stay away or anything along those lines. You quoted "stay away" as if you were quoting my exact words too, and I certainly never made that exact statement to be quoted from, or even anything like it, so once again stop lying. You lied just like that in your initial post to me too, so you are batting 100% for dishonesty out of two posts to/about me now. I simply told the guy that the hit wasn't my preference, and he may or may not like the hit based on his preference, and that I didn't know, and he wouldn't know, unless and until he tried one. I even said a lot of nice things about the cues and their makers as well. You are just one of those people that see and hear what they want to, regardless of what was actually said.

But you didn't qualify that statement....what type of shaft(s) were on the cues you used?

His taper is crap for the type of hit I like, so which shaft doesn't matter. Even you (among other people) said "The cues play very consistently from one to the other...so if you like the way one plays, chances are very high you'll like how another plays a well." The converse is also true, his taper is his taper and if you hate one because of the hit and feel that taper gives, then you hate them all.

I have never met a laminated LD shaft I liked...feel 'dead' (but I don't go running into threads concerning people interested in LD shafts and tell them to 'stay away').

So let me get this right. When people ask for opinions on something, only the good opinions should be given, right? Yeah that makes sense. He specifically asked for opinions, and I gave mine in a manner that was honest, fair, detailed, unbiased, and balanced. What more could anyone possibly want, and how can that possibly be criticized?

And if someone asks about a LD shaft you certainly have the right, and it could be argued even the moral obligation, to say that you find their hit to be dead. You should probably also clarify that you generally find all LD shafts dead, so they don't think it is just that one though. Guess what--I did that too. I mentioned that I find most stiff shafts to be dead, and even gave one of the reasons why I believe that is.

What type of tip(s) was on the cue? As you must know....tips can make or break the way a cue feels and plays.

Hmmmm. I don't seem to recall seeing where you specified anything about different tips when you were singing the Josey praises. The cue is not capable of giving a hit that I like, regardless of tip, so I didn't specify.

I have had cues that I didn't care at all for the hit of....but I do not go running into threads about those cues and tell people to 'stay away' because I didn't like it.

Again, I never said to stay away, or anything even along those lines. In fact, I encouraged him to try one as it is the only way he will know if it meets his preference or not. I said many complimentary things about them as well. How can you fault a well rounded, fair and honest opinion when it was asked for?

Sorry if I was raised that if you have nothing nice to say, it's better left unsaid.

If you don't see the irony in this statement, considering your unkindness towards me when I hadn't been unkind to anyone or anything, then you have some real (additional) issues.

The bottom line is that you couldn't have been more out of line, inaccurate, and wrong, and it is just continuing...

 

[DEXTER]

Josey or Arnot

OOPS double post

 

[DEXTER]

Josey or Arnot

I have had both. The Josey I have is very stiff. A bit to stiff for my liking. The Arnot on the other hand had a very nice solid hit, not to stiff, but not wimpy either. It's just my opinion, I would go with Arnot. I've had two Arnot's and just one Josey, so I can only comment on what I've tried. Of course you know what they say about opinions.

 

[SplicedPoints]

It's really pointless to argue about whose opinion is stronger or whether someone's opinion is valid. Everyone has the right to an opinion.

My Josey plays great for me. It's stiff. It's consistent. It delivers on what I ask it to do. My Josey may not play the same as your Josey. It's got a 314 shaft and a 8 yr old Moori M tip (long lay off from pool) that's shaped with more curve than most people's tips. It's less than 19oz with no wrap, in-lays or even joint collars. It looks just like a beat up bar stick. It belonged to a friend of mine who deliberately sanded off most of the finishing (even the maker's signature) so not to attract unwanted attention when gambling. It has managed to stay straight for all these times with only about 50% of it's finishing remaining and with all the abuse I've thrown at it (including being shipped in a crate for 2 months across the Pacific).

I stole it for $150 CND 7 or 8 years ago when he got too many cues to know what to do with. I can honestly say it's the best money I've ever spent in pool by far.

 

[HueblerHustler7]

Its final Ive made my choice im going to have Jon Spitz make me one of his very special cues, What I mean by Very Special... Well you know what they say about opinions :grin: Personally I wouldent know about any other of these cues being I have never hit with one. But its safe to say im not going to risk it when I know Jon makes a truly magical player.... Of course IMO.

 

[pwd72s]

LOL! Isn't that the way it goes sometimes? You think you've narrowed down to a couple of choices, then decide to go in a different direction. Hope you are happy with your spitz cue...:thumbup:

 

[angldemn]

A wise choice my friend. Spending a little more and getting what you really want to begin with will actually save you money and be better than wondering if you're making the right choice.

be sure to share some pics when you get it.