JPNEWT=Karens ATM

If you can't hang with the big dogs, stay home.

A high caliber pool player usually has dedicated thousands of hours learning his craft and now people want them to make everything level so that the losers who have a real job and money in the bank can compete and have the same status.

If the pool player goes to the complainer's place of employment in search of a job and asks for a "spot" in pay so they are the same, what will the answer likely be?
 
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Zuglen banned Hatch from the calcutta? What was the reason? I can't imagine it would have been Hatch's level of play. Zuglan had players on that tour in the late 90's and early 2000's that were the favorite over Hatch.

This should be clarified before it goes too long and remains in doubt....

The number of paying spots is predetermined and announced, then Mike Zuglan would always do blind bids in the beginning of the Calcutta- and at times those blind bids can go pretty high in the beginning.

So when there was a stretch with Hatch winning most of the time, there can be a situation where the high bid may not even pay back the purchase price. Zuglan didn't want this to happen to anyone so he decided it was best to remove Hatch from the Calcutta.

That's the cut and dry of it.
 
joke

you must be joking right. if you dont like it, stay home. i am sure the tournament will survive just fine. such a crying baby
 
Karen also spends time with the kids, she was as several fundraiser events for our local junior players, and was with them at Junior Nationals. She reminds me of Efren, quiet, no ego, nice to those around her but a bit shy, and does the job on the table.
 
If you can't hang with the big dogs, stay home.

A high caliber pool player usually has dedicated thousands of hours learning his craft and now people want them to make everything level so that the losers who have a real job and money in the bank can compete and have the same status.

If the pool player goes to the complainer's place of employment in search of a job and asks for a "spot" in pay so they are the same, what will the answer likely be?

I think in many tournaments the high caliber players are not looking to play on the level but rather to "steal" for the exact reason you mention, they choose to perfect their craft at the pool table so they dont have money in the bank or one of those "loser jobs". We have some tournaments up here where Masters are not allowed, they complain loudly because of this, often saying now that they are good they cant compete in tournaments yet when there is a Master tournament held these same complainers dont show up to play. There is nothing wrong with unhandicapped tournaments, if the time comes when the same person wins week in and week out and only a handful of players show up they have a decision to make, cancel future tournaments or start handicapping, simple as that.
 
I think in many tournaments the high caliber players are not looking to play on the level but rather to "steal" for the exact reason you mention, they choose to perfect their craft at the pool table so they dont have money in the bank or one of those "loser jobs". We have some tournaments up here where Masters are not allowed, they complain loudly because of this, often saying now that they are good they cant compete in tournaments yet when there is a Master tournament held these same complainers dont show up to play. There is nothing wrong with unhandicapped tournaments, if the time comes when the same person wins week in and week out and only a handful of players show up they have a decision to make, cancel future tournaments or start handicapping, simple as that.


I hate to see this typical "liberal" mindset in today's society, let alone in my beloved pastime.

What do you actually mean by "playing on the level"?

Is it equal opportunity? Or is it equal outcome?

Think about it though..there is a huge difference.

Equal opportunity would be, everyone's allowed to play, and no one is given preferential treatment.
Everyone who has the desire and devotion to improve, will generally do better. So if you sacrifice, you succeed.

That's fair. That's equal.

If you mean equal outcome, that everyone has chance to win, regardless of time, money, effort expended...well then why don't we just not keep score, give everyone a "hammer and sickle" trophy, and call it a day.

I don't begrudge the parlor owners attempts to maximize attendance, but if you dare to call yourself a "pool player," then suck it up!

Most popular pastimes/hobbies/competitive endeavors come with little, or no, payback. The best in those pastimes will often be lucky just to pay for their equipment.

On one hand I thank the leagues for keeping pool alive, but on the other hand I blame them for this pervasive entitlement attitude we see in our community.
 
I hate to see this typical "liberal" mindset in today's society, let alone in my beloved pastime.

What do you actually mean by "playing on the level"?

Is it equal opportunity? Or is it equal outcome?

Think about it though..there is a huge difference.

Equal opportunity would be, everyone's allowed to play, and no one is given preferential treatment.
Everyone who has the desire and devotion to improve, will generally do better. So if you sacrifice, you succeed.

That's fair. That's equal.

If you mean equal outcome, that everyone has chance to win, regardless of time, money, effort expended...well then why don't we just not keep score, give everyone a "hammer and sickle" trophy, and call it a day.

I don't begrudge the parlor owners attempts to maximize attendance, but if you dare to call yourself a "pool player," then suck it up!

Most popular pastimes/hobbies/competitive endeavors come with little, or no, payback. The best in those pastimes will often be lucky just to pay for their equipment.

On one hand I thank the leagues for keeping pool alive, but on the other hand I blame them for this pervasive entitlement attitude we see in our community.

Michael,

Well written, very direct answer. I disagree with some of your premise but just a small part of it.

If every event relied on equal participation regardless of ability, the life of that event would be very, very short. Some say the event should die. How many will die before there are no more events to play in? If the promoter / TD can not make some money from entries, who is going to pick up the slack? Would you work for nothing?

Agree with your assessment of the influence league play has had on the game we both obviously love. Don't see a simple path to making the future brighter anywhere but the leagues. Pretty sad in my view.

Lyn
 
I think all the points from both sides have been made,
Reality,truth be told...
Karen is a great pro player. ...with no pro tour to play in.
She has to make a living and playing pool is her job/carreer ....and she has been going to school for her home nursing certification as a secondary source of income.
She just doesnt go around robbing amateur tournaments.
She still plays in any pro event that fits her travel schedule.
She aint ducking pro tournaments, mens or women's ...for an "easy" pay day.

Imho.....i feel she helps those micro tour organizations by participating ,people will go to have a chance to play her ..or just to see her play.

Im glad she hasn't given up on pool in the states.

Recently She moved back to P.A..
Im gettin her practice table recovered Monday.
After a couple weeks in Ireland she'll back here at Fuscos full time.
 
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I think all the points from both sides have been made,
Reality,truth be told...
Karen is a great pro player. ...with no pro tour to play in.
She has to make a living and playing pool is her job/carreer ....and she has been going to school for her home nursing certification as a secondary source of income.
She just doesnt go around robbing amateur tournaments.
She still plays in any pro event that fits her travel schedule.
She aint ducking pro tournaments, mens or women's ...for an "easy" pay day.

Imho.....i feel she helps those micro tour organizations by participating ,people will go to have a chance to play her ..or just to see her play.

Im glad she hasn't given up on pool in the states.

Recently She moved back to P.A..
Im gettin her practice table recovered Monday.
After a couple weeks in Ireland she'll back here at Fuscos full time.



Great post
 
Recently She moved back to P.A..
Im gettin her practice table recovered Monday.
After a couple weeks in Ireland she'll back here at Fuscos full time.

Well this is good news.
Nice to have her back.

I guess we'll be seeing her in some decent action as well as more of her on some of the mens regional tours as well.

Awesome
 
Well this is good news.
Nice to have her back.

I guess we'll be seeing her in some decent action as well as more of her on some of the mens regional tours as well.

Awesome


Karen does not "gamble" per say.....

But......if you like her game and want to put her in the box against someone , she may be open for a "challenge match".
 
Karen does not "gamble" per say.....

But......if you like her game and want to put her in the box against someone , she may be open for a "challenge match".

I watched her in the box enough times before Petey moved.
It's all good.
I'm sure there's plenty of corporations at The Spot to keep her busy. Lol
 
I hate to see this typical "liberal" mindset in today's society, let alone in my beloved pastime.

What do you actually mean by "playing on the level"?

Is it equal opportunity? Or is it equal outcome?

Think about it though..there is a huge difference.

Equal opportunity would be, everyone's allowed to play, and no one is given preferential treatment.
Everyone who has the desire and devotion to improve, will generally do better. So if you sacrifice, you succeed.

That's fair. That's equal.

If you mean equal outcome, that everyone has chance to win, regardless of time, money, effort expended...well then why don't we just not keep score, give everyone a "hammer and sickle" trophy, and call it a day.

I don't begrudge the parlor owners attempts to maximize attendance, but if you dare to call yourself a "pool player," then suck it up!

Most popular pastimes/hobbies/competitive endeavors come with little, or no, payback. The best in those pastimes will often be lucky just to pay for their equipment.

On one hand I thank the leagues for keeping pool alive, but on the other hand I blame them for this pervasive entitlement attitude we see in our community.

The "liberal" comment was about the most insulting thing you could have said to me BTW. What I mean by playing on the level and stealing is exactly what I said. I see some of the highly skilled players skip tournaments because certain other highly skilled players are signed up for the same event. They dont want to compete, they want to prey on lower skill level players who they know they can beat. I dont have a problem entering non handicapped tournaments but I also am not going to blow entry money on the US Open, I am a little more realistic than that. We have a lot of local tournaments that limit the entries based on maximum Fargo rating, these usually always fill up and have a waiting list. I dont mind playing someone better than me without a handicap but I am realistic enough to know that I dont belong in a field of Masters or 700+ ranked Fargo players. As I stated in a different thread I think a good way to handicap tournaments would be an 80% handicap instead of a 100% handicap. That way the better player maintains his advantage that he worked hard to earn but it keeps the fields full because you are likely going to have more people entering that think they have a chance to be competitive. Run all the non handicap weekly tournaments that you want, it will come down to a handful of people at the most winning every week and entries dwindling to the said handful, let me know how it works out for you. I am just over an hour away from The Carom Room that has several big tournaments every year featuring many of the countries premier players, can I expect to see your name on the next entry list since its not a handicap tournament, it seems logical you should be in attendance by your reply. Here is an earlier tournament link: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=425253&highlight=Carom+Room
 
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