Jump sticks have changed the game

How do you guys feel about extensions on cues? Seems to me the mech. bridge is designed to reach shots you can't reach with your shooter. A lot of people dont like the bridge but its a tool that's been around forever.
I personally feel the rules need speak more clearly on what's allowed. I understand the rules to say you can have 3 cues put together at one time. But there is a loophole there. I've seen a lot of players have 2 different jump cues in there case (1 skinny one for short jumps and a regular jump cue for the rest) They dont screw one together until they need one. How many times have you watched a match and a player goes to his case to get a jump cue out and put it together during a match instead of having it together at the start of the match.
I feel the same about the extension, if its not on your cue at the beginning of the match you shouldn't be allowed to put it on later.
 
I want those jump-cues gone along with One-Foul. I do realize we are not going back to Push-Out. There are countless other ways to go that would improve 9/10 ball.

One-Foul BIH warps the game. There is too much incentive to play safe and the punishment for a foul is too big.

Nine-Ball will continue to evolve.
 
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The_JV said:
Wow that's saying something. I've always considered 9 ball the most aggressively offence based game.
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My thought too.

But, if there’s “too much incentive to play safe” and the punishment for a foul is “too big”, I would think that adding something that improves the ability to escape that “too big” punishment would be considered a good thing...
 
The_JV said:
Wow that's saying something. I've always considered 9 ball the most aggressively offence based game.
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Ditto. Everyone can jump, everyone can masse and everyone can kick these days. You don't get ball in hand very often at elite levels of competition, and getting it often requires the most exquisite defense. I'd like to see more safety play in nine ball, but I don't expect it anytime soon.
 
Comparing the bangers to the pros is apples and oranges. At the pro level, with the tools at hand, safeties must be damn near perfect for them to give up ball in hand.
 
sjm said:
Ditto. Everyone can jump, everyone can masse and everyone can kick these days.
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I think we are talking apples and oranges. I don't want players jumping. I definitely don't want them shooting masse' shots. Kicking at balls is a skill to hit the ball and largely luck after that. It is not a good bet.

I am interested in the 99.9% of the pool played out there which is every day casual play, not tournaments.

For years and years my room was flush with "play and pay by the game" Push-Out Nine-Ball and very few tournaments. Then I watched over a period of 5-7 years where it all changed to tournaments, races, and One-Foul. I would love to see the amount of action I once had in my room come back. I know Push-Out will never come back and at the same time, decades of races and One-Foul has shown me that players will only sporadically bet cheap on it. My action play has dwindled to almost nothing. Action play used to be the backbone of the game. Poolrooms thrived on it.
 
ChrisinNC said:
I’m afraid you can’t go backwards - in its purest form, 9-ball would be a completely different game from today’s 9-ball game.

14.1 is the only game, other than possibly one pocket, that is still played in its purest form, for the few of us that still play it.
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Unfortunately I agree with you, I remember when nine ball was played with the one shot push out, much has changed since then. Straight pool is still my game of choice but I’m afraid I’m in the minority there too.
 
Paul Schofield said:
I think we are talking apples and oranges. I don't want players jumping. I definitely don't want them shooting masse' shots. Kicking at balls is a skill to hit the ball and largely luck after that. It is not a good bet.

I am interested in the 99.9% of the pool played out there which is every day casual play, not tournaments.

For years and years my room was flush with "play and pay by the game" Push-Out Nine-Ball and very few tournaments. Then I watched over a period of 5-7 years where it all changed to tournaments, races, and One-Foul. I would love to see the amount of action I once had in my room come back. I know Push-Out will never come back and at the same time, decades of races and One-Foul has shown me that players will only sporadically bet cheap on it. My action play has dwindled to almost nothing. Action play used to be the backbone of the game. Poolrooms thrived on it.
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Point is well taken.

For the rank and file in our game, I definitely understand how you feel here and why. At the highest level, however, I like the Texas Express format, which favors offense, but has just enough defense in it to keep it interesting.
 
JB Cases said:
I don't think I know of another sport where people willingly handicap themselves by refusing to use legal equipment. Do you know where they don't have this discussion? In Taiwan, China, the Philippines, Europe, and well everywhere outside the United States. Why? Because those players use the world rules and are fully able to develop their skills without being shit on and told they are weak for using jump cues.

When is the last time an American junior player won a world championship? Or an American adult?

In this case it is my opinion that correlation is part of causation. The fact that STILL there are so many backwards opinions about jump cues in America which leads to rule variations that players have to contend with is part of why American players are generally behind the rest of the world for average skill levels.

It's truly nuts to me. I don't understand it. To me this is like the people who might have whined about chalk by telling those who used chalk that they weren't really skilled unless they could play without that Magical Twisting Powder.
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John, just curious if you ever see that your opinions are usually the exact opposite of most people who post.
 
Paul Schofield said:
It favors defense..... excessive defense.
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Man I wish I could see the game through your eyes. I just can't see 'today's' 9 ball as a defensive game. Sure there's defence, but favours it...?

The push-out version of 9 ball must have been so aggressive that the players must have worn blood based war paint and screamed murder during every shot.

I understand now that your point of view is coming from the 99% that play pool and not the elite. However I would think that would make today's 9 ball even more aggressive in nature. Safe play is normally one of the last things players develop as they reach proficiency.
 
The_JV said:
Man I wish I could see the game through your eyes. I just can't see 'today's' 9 ball as a defensive game. Sure there's defence, but favours it...?

The push-out version of 9 ball must have been so aggressive that the players must have worn blood based war paint and screamed murder during every shot.

I understand now that your point of view is coming from the 99% that play pool and not the elite. However I would think that would make today's 9 ball even more aggressive in nature. Safe play is normally one of the last things players develop as they reach proficiency.
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Before making digs at a game you might want to try playing it some. I've showed it to a few younger one-foul'r friends and almost all have like it. More strategy and far less luck involved. More games are won by shooting as opposed to ducking. Also have to make spot shots, often for your cash. Current rules were adopted solely to speed up tournaments, not make the game any better other than the time factor.
 
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garczar said:
Before making digs at a game you might want to try playing it some.
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You're completely misunderstanding me. My bad for not sending the message correctly. I have no frame of reference of yester year's version of popular 9 ball. I truly wish I had Paul's perspective on the game as a whole so I to could draw comparisons.

That said, by most people's opinion, 9 ball in it's current state is an aggressive (offensive) game. The notion that it's actually very defensive by someone's standards that is comparing it to the older format, leaves me scratching my head at how much more aggressive it could have possibly been.

Sry for the confusion. ...and I would genuinely loved to play old school 9 ball. Doubt I'd find anyone so willing though.
 
Here is offense: Nine-Ball is rife with near impossible position play. I want the player to go for the shot and go for the position. If the position does not work out, the player needs an option other than kick, jump, or a masse'. In this situation, under One-Foul rules, it makes no sense to go for the shot.

It would be great to see Nine-Ball be a more cerebral challenge like One-Pocket. It would also be nice to see the game in a format worth betting on.

On a side note: Have you ever noticed the condition of the cloth after Florian Kohler videos his jump-shots and masse'-shots?
 
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Paul Schofield said:
Here is offense: Nine-Ball is rife with near impossible position play. I want the player to go for the shot and go for the position. If the position does not work out, the player needs an option other than kick, jump, or a masse'. In this situation, under One-Foul rules, it makes no sense to go for the shot.
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Ok I think I get it... I'm just used to seeing players go for nearly any shot that has an open pocket to fall in.
Paul Schofield said:
On a side note: Have you ever noticed the condition of the cloth after Florian Kohler videos his jump-shots and masse'-shots?
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Have you ever seen a table after a number of break shots equal to the amount of Florian jump/masse during one of his videos...? Not only you seeing the wear from his 'made it to the final edit' attempts but the countless others that didn't work out.

A strong break is just as bad if not worse than a jump/masse
 
Paul Schofield said:
It would be great to see Nine-Ball be a more cerebral challenge like One-Pocket. It would also be nice to see the game in a format worth betting on.
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Good grief, why? It’s 9-ball. It is what it is.

If you want a cerebral game, just play any of those that already exist.
 
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