Jumping with a Full Length Cue!

[JB Cases]

This actually brings into focus the whole argument I have been making FOR YEARS about using jump cues vs. full length cues.

And that is that ALL FULL LENGTH CUES ARE DIFFERENT IN THIS REGARD.

As I read through this thread I see most of the replies talking about how this or that cue with this or that tip makes it easier or harder to jump the ball when using a full length -59 Inch cue.

Welcome to the REASON jump cues were invented.

Not because the technique is so hard although jumping with a full cue does take a certain technique that MUST be practiced (like anything else.) But instead because it's so inconsistent when the type of cue is taken into consideration.

So let's get back to what you need to do to learn to jump with your full cue.

First you need to learn the technique then you need to learn what the limits are so you aren't trying to do shots that are impossible or are beyond your current skill level.

So how to do this? The old fashioned way. Start by jumping over coins, then by jumping the edge of a blocking ball. Keep moving the blocking ball more and more in line with the cue ball until you are jumping a full ball.

Here is the trick. As you want more height to clear the ball you will need to elevate more and stroke faster and harder. Basically because the cue is much heavier than the cue ball it will cause the cueball to squirt away quickly so you want and need to drive it into the bed at a higher angle than you would need with a jump cue in order to compensate for the squirt.

The stroke motion will be more like a stabbing motion WITHOUT a full follow through. This is important because when you do the full follow through you CANNOT do the jab/stab stroke and your cue is already providing a lot of forward motion.

Basically you are trying to LIGHTEN your cue by not allowing the full weight to come to bear on the cue ball.

I don't have time or I would make a video of this for you.

You also need to choke up on your grip hand - hold it closer to the wrap. You will need to experiement here as each cue and person is different. However do not be discouraged. Rafael Martinez is about 3ft 5" (not really but probably not over 5'5") and he jumps with a Predator shaft outfitted cue as well as anyone in the world.

Lastly when you address the cueball you will want to hit it below the equator or the dividing line as it is facing you. If you are at 45 degrees then where your tip hits the cueball in the center is the equator. Aim LOWER than this line even if it means rasing the butt of the cue slightly more.

The closer the blocking ball is to the cueball the higher the elevation of the butt AND the lower on the cueball you will want to hit.

Last tip: There is NO SUCH THING as "Getting the cue out of the way of the ball" It's impossible for the cuetip and the cueball to occupy the same space on a proper shot. The only time that the cueball will hit the cue is when you have aimed too high and the cue follows through into the space that the cueball is going. If you hit the cueball BELOW the equator then it will NEVER EVER EVER hit the tip.

Have fun in the APA. Also if you plan to ever go to nationals don't fall into the trap of playing by local LO rules. Don't switch to your break cue to jump with only to find out that you can't do that at regionals and nationals.

 

[JB Cases]

per apa rule, you must jump with your playing cue. Imo that favors the better players. The 2's 3's and 4's on my team have no chance to jump with a full lenght cue with a leather tip.

Absolutely 100% FACT.

The APA is out in space with their policy on jump cues. I personally think it's because Larry Hubbard and Terry Bell are old school and don't like them. But I know we sell a ton of jump cues at the APA Nationals every year even though the players can't use them.

 

[TheWhiteEwok]

This actually brings into focus the whole argument I have been making FOR YEARS about using jump cues vs. full length cues.

And that is that ALL FULL LENGTH CUES ARE DIFFERENT IN THIS REGARD.

As I read through this thread I see most of the replies talking about how this or that cue with this or that tip makes it easier or harder to jump the ball when using a full length -59 Inch cue.

Welcome to the REASON jump cues were invented.

Not because the technique is so hard although jumping with a full cue does take a certain technique that MUST be practiced (like anything else.) But instead because it's so inconsistent when the type of cue is taken into consideration.

So let's get back to what you need to do to learn to jump with your full cue.

First you need to learn the technique then you need to learn what the limits are so you aren't trying to do shots that are impossible or are beyond your current skill level.

So how to do this? The old fashioned way. Start by jumping over coins, then by jumping the edge of a blocking ball. Keep moving the blocking ball more and more in line with the cue ball until you are jumping a full ball.

Here is the trick. As you want more height to clear the ball you will need to elevate more and stroke faster and harder. Basically because the cue is much heavier than the cue ball it will cause the cueball to squirt away quickly so you want and need to drive it into the bed at a higher angle than you would need with a jump cue in order to compensate for the squirt.

The stroke motion will be more like a stabbing motion WITHOUT a full follow through. This is important because when you do the full follow through you CANNOT do the jab/stab stroke and your cue is already providing a lot of forward motion.

Basically you are trying to LIGHTEN your cue by not allowing the full weight to come to bear on the cue ball.

I don't have time or I would make a video of this for you.

You also need to choke up on your grip hand - hold it closer to the wrap. You will need to experiement here as each cue and person is different. However do not be discouraged. Rafael Martinez is about 3ft 5" (not really but probably not over 5'5") and he jumps with a Predator shaft outfitted cue as well as anyone in the world.

Lastly when you address the cueball you will want to hit it below the equator or the dividing line as it is facing you. If you are at 45 degrees then where your tip hits the cueball in the center is the equator. Aim LOWER than this line even if it means rasing the butt of the cue slightly more.

The closer the blocking ball is to the cueball the higher the elevation of the butt AND the lower on the cueball you will want to hit.

Last tip: There is NO SUCH THING as "Getting the cue out of the way of the ball" It's impossible for the cuetip and the cueball to occupy the same space on a proper shot. The only time that the cueball will hit the cue is when you have aimed too high and the cue follows through into the space that the cueball is going. If you hit the cueball BELOW the equator then it will NEVER EVER EVER hit the tip.

Have fun in the APA. Also if you plan to ever go to nationals don't fall into the trap of playing by local LO rules. Don't switch to your break cue to jump with only to find out that you can't do that at regionals and nationals.

Thank you for this response! This was in fact what I was looking for - some advice on the actual "mechanics" of accomplishing the shot.

I do believe that I have been following through with my stroke and not enough of a hard strike / jab!!

Ironically I am using a phenolic tip which is frankly hate - this might be due to my "inability" or might be one of those occasions where I have found an attribute I DON'T like, i.e. thicker shafts.

I know that the math + physics support phenolic tips for "better / easier" jumping ability - So I will try a few different cues and tips when I practice - but my feeling is that my tip is hurting me a little.

I will definitely practice making certain I am using a firm fast Jab / Strike shot and not following through.

Hopefully with enough practice I can come back to AZ and claim success!

Thanks for your help!

 

[TheWhiteEwok]

fine, blah ...i'll give an honest answer

the trick to make clearign a full ball as easy as possible is as others have stated a hard tip in conjunction with a high squirt shaft.

also, because theres more mass envolved, theres going to require more power input form stroke wich will really send the cb flying so acouple good rules of thumb when using full cue:
if the distance between cb and blocking ball is less than a diamond, try something else.
if the distance between the cb and blocking ball is more than 3 diamonds, your lekly to jump off the table.
if the distance between blocking ball and object ball is less than about 2 diamomds, try something else.
if the distance between the cb and the rail behind is less than 3 diamonds, your likely to jump off table.


basically, when jumping, the angle of the cb off the table will equal the angle of the cue stick, and then the angle of return will be equal as well. the variance is the power applied wich will equal the peak hieght the cb achieves at the top of its arch before macking its return back down. the more power the higher the arch , the more clearance, but when dealing in full stick jumping, your limited to the angle that can be achieved with the cue stick.

haha thanks socks for the honest answer!

I know it might be a tad frustrating for players with higher skills to share what they know - but I definitely appreciate the help!

.... haha .... and I will definitely keep working on my kick shots and diamond systems!

 

[TheWhiteEwok]

I did it!

Sure enough the advice about having to use a faster, stronger jab / strike stroke was dead on!

I was trying to follow through originally and now after some practice i was 8/10!!

OB was 1 Diamond and then 2 Diamonds away from QB!

Thank you for your help!!

 

[APA Gene]

Watch videos of Earl Strickland.

He can jump better with a full length cue, than alot of people can with jump cue.

Ain't that a fact!

 

[SlickRick_PCS]

I have recently joined the rank of APA 9 ball league to get some League practice in and I grimly learned that I am not able to jump in APA unless I use my full length cue.

In practice however - it is much harder to accomplish compared to jumping with a broken down jump cue.

Can anybody provide some advice, or tips, regarding things to pay attention to or focus when you are learning to jump with a full length cue?

Take a hint, pal: This is the APA. Jumping is possible with a full cue, but highly improbable. They WANT you to kick shots so that they don't get the impression that you should use the "cheat stick" and play old fashion. That's why I am very imbetween in this APA system. I used to be in it, but I don't see the reason on why I have to pay five dollars one game every week just to reach a certain amount of points to where they set the limit of 23 within the whole team (call me a cheapskate but with this economy being so rough, I can't blame myself). This is complete malarkey. And to top it off, there is TONS of sandbagging. I played a 3 who should be a damn 5-6. I just simply do not like this system- like hustlers in repent. Sorry for those that differ, but that's just my opinion.

 

[TheWhiteEwok]

Take a hint, pal: This is the APA. Jumping is possible with a full cue, but highly improbable. They WANT you to kick shots so that they don't get the impression that you should use the "cheat stick" and play old fashion. That's why I am very imbetween in this APA system. I used to be in it, but I don't see the reason on why I have to pay five dollars one game every week just to reach a certain amount of points to where they set the limit of 23 within the whole team (call me a cheapskate but with this economy being so rough, I can't blame myself). This is complete malarkey. And to top it off, there is TONS of sandbagging. I played a 3 who should be a damn 5-6. I just simply do not like this system- like hustlers in repent. Sorry for those that differ, but that's just my opinion.

Well, considering I have now practiced the technique and can accomplish it (in certain conditions) now, I would argue that its no longer "Highly improbable" - but that isnt the point.

APA is not the only place that I play - in fact it was first, but merely as a stepping stone. My personal goals have nothing to do with leagues like the BCA, APA, ACS, etc

With that being said - If somebody can do something on a pool table - I want to learn how to do the same thing - why cant I be as good or better as them?

I would rather be able to walk into an APA game, knowing I can jump with a full cue - and have one more skill in my arsenal in case somebody thinks they can hook me, yet leave me something I can jump.

I don't prefer the APA league at all - but alas, it is practice and allows me to (and you will respect this) pay $10 a night and play on the best tables all night for free (I also have to be aware of pool costs).

I have heard nightmarish stories of teams at APA national that are just unreal - some leagues don't score barely at all - some leagues, like the one I am in, score religiously.

Not in my future plans to be frustrated by playing in an APA nationals event - US Open or some other Pro tour event is my goal!

 

[socks]

Well, considering I have now practiced the technique and can accomplish it (in certain conditions) now, I would argue that its no longer "Highly improbable" - but that isnt the point.

APA is not the only place that I play - in fact it was first, but merely as a stepping stone. My personal goals have nothing to do with leagues like the BCA, APA, ACS, etc

With that being said - If somebody can do something on a pool table - I want to learn how to do the same thing - why cant I be as good or better as them?

I would rather be able to walk into an APA game, knowing I can jump with a full cue - and have one more skill in my arsenal in case somebody thinks they can hook me, yet leave me something I can jump.

I don't prefer the APA league at all - but alas, it is practice and allows me to (and you will respect this) pay $10 a night and play on the best tables all night for free (I also have to be aware of pool costs).

I have heard nightmarish stories of teams at APA national that are just unreal - some leagues don't score barely at all - some leagues, like the one I am in, score religiously.

Not in my future plans to be frustrated by playing in an APA nationals event - US Open or some other Pro tour event is my goal!

thats a good goal to have. good luck to you sir in your quest.

 

[TheWhiteEwok]

Thank you socks!

I see you are from Atlanta!

You aren't by chance going to be at the Pro event at the Marietta Billiard Club in July 10-12th?

I plan on popping my cherry there and paying some money to see how I hang with the real pool kats.

 

[socks]

Thank you socks!

I see you are from Atlanta!

You aren't by chance going to be at the Pro event at the Marietta Billiard Club in July 10-12th?

I plan on popping my cherry there and paying some money to see how I hang with the real pool kats.

i'll probably pop in to watch. i doubt i'll play though. i hit up thier weeklies every once in awhile. family life keeps me from getting out of my league home at mazzy's much.

 

[socks]

Thank you socks!

I see you are from Atlanta!

You aren't by chance going to be at the Pro event at the Marietta Billiard Club in July 10-12th?

I plan on popping my cherry there and paying some money to see how I hang with the real pool kats.

you know, i thought that name looked familier. is this carl?

 

[TheWhiteEwok]

you know, i thought that name looked familier. is this carl?

Haha - yeah! Who is this?
You say MAzzy's - M1 or M2?

You arent an MFShooter are ya?!

 

[SlickRick_PCS]

Well, considering I have now practiced the technique and can accomplish it (in certain conditions) now, I would argue that its no longer "Highly improbable" - but that isnt the point.

APA is not the only place that I play - in fact it was first, but merely as a stepping stone. My personal goals have nothing to do with leagues like the BCA, APA, ACS, etc

With that being said - If somebody can do something on a pool table - I want to learn how to do the same thing - why cant I be as good or better as them?

I would rather be able to walk into an APA game, knowing I can jump with a full cue - and have one more skill in my arsenal in case somebody thinks they can hook me, yet leave me something I can jump.

I don't prefer the APA league at all - but alas, it is practice and allows me to (and you will respect this) pay $10 a night and play on the best tables all night for free (I also have to be aware of pool costs).

I have heard nightmarish stories of teams at APA national that are just unreal - some leagues don't score barely at all - some leagues, like the one I am in, score religiously.

Not in my future plans to be frustrated by playing in an APA nationals event - US Open or some other Pro tour event is my goal!

I hate to burst your bubble there, Ewok, but using your normal cue on a thin cloth (i.e. Simonis) is not a walk in the park. If your pool tables are the thick pilled (the little ball of lent that you see under the cushions), nappy kind, then those are very easy to jump shots with. But try jumping on a 3.5' x7' coin-op table with a oversized cueball with a pool playing full cue, or a 4'x8' simonis cloth tables. Yea, I had to dealt with those two kinds and jumping is certainly no hanger.

But to break the tension here, I have mixed emotions about the jump cue and not using the jump cue. I like it, and I don't. I believe that Shane Van Boening's interview with The Action Report's Justin C. (JCIN on Azbilliards), pretty much says it nicely on how I kind of feel about the jump cue; I will use it only when the blocker ball is around a ball and a half from the OB. Although it is a great accomplishment learning how to full cue the jump shot (which BTW, kudos on that... since I know how difficult that is :thumbup try taking up some skills in Masse shots. It will never hurt to learn this as well.

As far as your goals on wanting to be in the big times: Sitting on this computer is not going to get you there. People like Shane Van Boening, Schmidt, Bata, Django, Shuffet, and many others around the world are playing for money for the pressure workout as well as practicing their asses off with joy. So get your rump off this computer, head to a nearby pool parlor (or house if you have a table), do drills, straight pool, rotation and whatever game you desire, and enjoy the brains out of it!

 

[TheWhiteEwok]

I hate to burst your bubble there, Ewok, but using your normal cue on a thin cloth (i.e. Simonis) is not a walk in the park. If your pool tables are the thick pilled (the little ball of lent that you see under the cushions), nappy kind, then those are very easy to jump shots with. But try jumping on a 3.5' x7' coin-op table with a oversized cueball with a pool playing full cue, or a 4'x8' simonis cloth tables. Yea, I had to dealt with those two kinds and jumping is certainly no hanger.

But to break the tension here, I have mixed emotions about the jump cue and not using the jump cue. I like it, and I don't. I believe that Shane Van Boening's interview with The Action Report's Justin G. (JCIN on Azbilliards), pretty much says it nicely on how I kind of feel about the jump cue; I will use it only when the blocker ball is around a ball and a half from the OB. Although it is a great accomplishment learning how to full cue the jump shot (which BTW, kudos on that... since I know how difficult that is :thumbup try taking up some skills in Masse shots. It will never hurt to learn this as well.

As far as your goals on wanting to be in the big times: Sitting on this computer is not going to get you there. People like Shane Van Boening, Schmidt, Bata, Django, Shuffet, and many others around the world are playing for money for the pressure workout as well as practicing their asses off with joy. So get your rump off this computer, head to a nearby pool parlor (or house if you have a table), do drills, straight pool, rotation and whatever game you desire, and enjoy the brains out of it!

Haha - I will give you some room there with the comment about the different tables - Yes the one I practiced on today was 9 foot brunswick, but not the nice Simonis cloth. I will go to one of my halls next week to practice on a table I know I can jump-practice on.

Agreed about learning it all - I do practice some Masse shots, but my learning curve on that is utterly ad hoc - I dont know the methodology yet - So i am just learning on my own "what does what". Eventually I will get more technical with it to add it to my game.

Haha - well, regarding my rump being plastered behind a screen right now - some of us have day jobs (haha) - luckily mine allows for this type of thing.

However after 5pm you will usually find me in the hall, 6 days a week, till close, doing exactly what you suggested!!

I have goals, but I also know that to achieve them you have to practice!!

 

[SlickRick_PCS]

gettin curvy here

Haha - I will give you some room there with the comment about the different tables - Yes the one I practiced on today was 9 foot brunswick, but not the nice Simonis cloth. I will go to one of my halls next week to practice on a table I know I can jump-practice on.

.

9 foot tables... sexy! :yeah: Yea, those tables are room for errors k:

Agreed about learning it all - I do practice some Masse shots, but my learning curve on that is utterly ad hoc - I dont know the methodology yet - So i am just learning on my own "what does what". Eventually I will get more technical with it to add it to my game.

Masse anatomy, no problem: Eric Yow, Dr. Dave has some good stuff here (btw, his book is great; I recommend it), and talk to Jamison Neu (JamisonNeu in the forums here).

 

[socks]

Haha - yeah! Who is this?
You say MAzzy's - M1 or M2?

You arent an MFShooter are ya?!

i am. this is jay...the red headed guy on ron's team.

 

[TheWhiteEwok]

i am. this is jay...the red headed guy on ron's team.

Haha, what is UP Jay!

haha this is the guy that taught me how to jump!! haha that is hilarious!

well dude i am at Big Shots on M + T, MBC on Th,Sa,Su (and sometimes W or F)

Going to try to alternate M + F to Mr Cues for their A/B/C tournaments (M)

You should join!

 

[MitchAlsup]

Question: What would be the penalty if someone attempted to jump with his full length playing cue, overstroked it a bunch, and tore the felt to smithereens?

 

[conetip]

Tip is a hard buffalo pressed on a predator z2 shaft

yes - LO will let me use my break cue to jump with, i just cant break it down.

I try to avoid having to jump at all costs, but sometimes having the ability comes useful. I would like to just be prepared for this different league with different set of rules.

In our apa league, you have to use your playing cue after the break. Some people have been caught out, by using a bar cue for the break,making a couple and then being excited, continue to play.Then they realise that they have been playing with the bar cue, and are now stuck with it for the rest of the game.
Some places do not allow jump shoots, but those that do, the jump has to be made with the playing cue.
I am not allowed to change tips after the play of the game, unless a tip fails. But I have not yet had a failed tip.
So keep practicing, and you will get the jump to gel for you.I find the super pro tips to be good for jump and play.
Neil