Just a few things on my mind...

[Timberly]

I'm extremely happy for the players on the IPT. Big money for great players is long overdue. People outside of the pool world can't begin to know and appreciate the skill and talent it takes to play at the pro level. With the stigma attached to pool and the lack of appreciation for the level of play, it's been very difficult for pool to garner big money, so for this, I am very thankful for the IPT and appreciate the opportunity given to these great players.

That being said, there are a few things that just don't sit well with me....

Didn't see the draw. Got it from the IPT on email.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but in the players meeting in Vegas, did KT not admit that the draw was done by he & Deno over dinner? I seem to recall seeing that somewhere.

"Real Rules" is part of their mantra... you know, the mantra that they keep saying over and over along with the spiffy dress code to try to give some legitimacy to the sport. KT has talked down about the ways of the pool world prior to his arrival. A "closed door" draw with the TD & the backer does not help their image at all IMO. This really does not sit well with me, esp when the backer is such good friends with one of the players. Mike S played in two groups and only in the 2nd group did he encounter a high caliber player... one really high caliber player. Now with the qualifiers, the IPT is doing the draw and emailing the draws to the pool rooms. Good grief

I also don't like how they're constantly changing the rules and game plan as they go along. Yet another thing that doesn't help towards the legitimacy of things. Everything from the entry fee for the qualifiers to the RULES of the matches after play has started.

In Vegas, at the players meeting the rule was stated that you were to be at your table when the ref said lag or you forfeit. I believe KT told the players it was their responsibility to know what time it was. (Again, someone that was there, please correct me if I'm wrong) The very first set of matches on the very first day a player was not at his table. After x amount of time (maybe 5 or 10 min) they announced to the player that was there that he had won by forfeit. At 20 min after the start time, the other player showed up. The guy that was told he had won by forfeit was then told that he had to play the match. Then all of the sudden the "real rules" changed and they started penalizing players a game for every 2 min or something to that effect.

There were a lot of discrepancies from the referee's. I swear there seemed to be a new thread about something else that a ref did every couple of hours every day of the tournament. Some ref's turned the other cheek when certain players committed a foul of the "real rules" like shirts touching balls. Others weren't penalizing for slow play as they were supposed to while others seemed to be somewhat overzealous. There seemed to be no consistency among the ref's at this much anticipated, high profile, "legitimate" tournament.

Last but certainly not least.... Mark Trainer. Nothing about this guy sits well with me. The saddest part is that I don't believe for one second that he's working alone, but he is definitely being set up as the fall guy in this non-stop drama of signing players.

Just me venting about a few things that just don't add up. Some that haven't already labeled me as a naysayer will certainly do so after this and that's their prerogative. It's not the case as I stated in the beginning, I really am happy for the players. I just want to see them be successful on a legitimate tour and some of the actions of this "high class" tour do not seem very legitimate to me.

I do like that the players are dressing nicer and looking more presentable and respectable. I think the large venues in the large hotels is also a very nice touch and I really like the green room that they have set up for the players to get away from everyone and relax.

After the initial 150 debacle, I like that people have to qualify to play. It used to be that anyone could call themselves a pro player. Now they have to prove it and I think that's a major plus for the true pro players.

I'll continue to root for the players and the success of the IPT but I'll also continue to keep my eyes wide open and not blindly follow the pied piper.

 

[jay helfert]

Timberly,

You've got heart and b-lls. I admire someone who will speak their mind in the face of predictable opposition.

Once again someone will come on here and say the IPT is new and they are experiencing growing pains. That's why the chosen one Mike Sigel got the best draw. And the officiating was suspect at best. And the players who got eliminated and wanted to be paid had to wait. And on and on.

Beautiful venue, great prize money (distribution?) and super strong field. Good format too, although I still think the tie breaking system needs to be tweaked. But obvious favoritism to certain players and bias in making decisions does not make for a level playing field and true legitmacy. It seemed that in every instance where a difficult decision had to be made, they got it wrong.

And you are right to smell a rat with these player contracts. I will only tell of you of my suspicions in a PM. But I have learned some interesting things from players under contract in the last few weeks.

Now I can take the heat with you Timberly. It's getting warm in here.

 

[ccn7]

Timberly you know how i feel about your posts, between you and JAM and Linda , you keep alot of us well informed about whats really happening on the pool scene. i know how much all three of you love the game its players and all that goes with this great sport.I for one greatly appreciate all you Ladies do to share with us your knowledge of "WHATS HAPPENING".To have some concerns about this that and whatever shows how much you Ladies do care. i've always been a supporter of the IPT and know you Ladies have also,with each day and each post you Ladies make the numbers go up. i know there are many more of you out there that feel the same we are slowly becoming the majority, someday i hope the IPT will be as big as some of the other minor sports. jay i 'll share the heat with you also and be might proud to do so.

 

[cheesemouse]

I don't think anyone outside the inter circle is going to have any affect on how this IPT plays out for the rest of this years season and perhaps no affect on next yrs (07) season. These guys are shooting at the moon, they have much time and money invested, and I have to assume what they are doing has been planned out far in advance. Right or wrong this train has left the station. Those who are not on that train now can only hope to get a berth by the sweat of their brows and skill in their shooting arms. The good enough for government work mentality of some poolplayers is no longer going to get it in the IPT. The IPT has set some high standards for a ticket on the train, only the most skillfully need apply. The multiplier effect here, as I see it, is that only the most masterful in the game of pool will hold a ticket at the end of 07. If this thing actually takes root and gets bigger and better just think of the crop of younsters that may take a closer look at the game. More of them may take a shot at the moon...

I'm on the outside and can only hope they put on a great show for me to watch.

 

[Timberly]

I don't think anyone outside the inter circle is going to have any affect on how this IPT plays out for the rest of this years season and perhaps no affect on next yrs (07) season.

I don't expect to be able to change anything but I along with the rest of us can help keep them in check and the players informed.

And you are right to smell a rat with these player contracts. I will only tell of you of my suspicions in a PM. But I have learned some interesting things from players under contract in the last few weeks.

I've learned a few things lately myself and I'm looking into these things more. I want to be responsible about what I post, esp on this matter so I'm making sure the things that I'm being told are true before I post anything on them.

PM's are not really private so please, if you want to compare notes or share something with me, use the link in my signature to email me. LOL, I feel like I've turned into an investigative reporter over the last few weeks. What's going on with this ordeal of course won't affect me in my life but quite a few of these guys are my friends and if I can help them help themselves, then I don't mind doing it.

 

[cheesemouse]

Timberly,
I think it is good that you and others are looking out for the players. We all know many of them need help in that area I don't even mind the complete naysayers, they are just a part of life. We only see the light because of the darkness around it...LOL
I still wonder what is in the contract those 150 signed at that required meeting in Florida. I never hear it mentioned and I'm curious. Do you know?

 

[Timberly]

Timberly,
I think it is good that you and others are looking out for the players. We all know many of them need help in that area I don't even mind the complete naysayers, they are just a part of life. We only see the light because of the darkness around it...LOL
I still wonder what is in the contract those 150 signed at that required meeting in Florida. I never hear it mentioned and I'm curious. Do you know?

I don't recall hearing about a contract signed by the players in FL. I could be wrong and I can find out for sure in a few days once Turning Stone is over. All I know about FL is that everyone had to be there for the whole week, even the one's not playing, at their own expense or they would lose their tour card. Which, IMO was total BS. I can appreciate wanting them to be there for support and needing them to be there for the initial meeting and to fill out bio stuff and whatnot... kind of like a job orientation, but the few things the non players needed to do there could've been done over the course of the weekend and then they should've been allowed to go back home and go to work since they weren't invited to play in that event.

 

[poolsucker]

I thought Mike S first round draw was a joke, but not surprised. Also I thought Allison Fisher had a soft first round too. So many tough brakets could have been divided up more fairly.

 

[memikey]

...... Now with the qualifiers, the IPT is doing the draw and emailing the draws to the pool rooms. Good grief

An interesting and objective post Timberley but you could be being a little unfair on the above small point.That was always how the qualifier draws were going to be done and the system certainly has not changed in any way.You imply that that there is a better way of doing the qualifier draws and in the context of the rest of your post presumably you mean that you would prefer them to be done at each venue in front of the players.

In this respect,to be fair to IPT there are obviously several factors to take into account,many of them purely practicalities,for example:-

Firstly it is obvious that IPT would not want the venue to know the number or identity of the entrants until after the entry deadline is passed.This is to ensure that entrants cannot shop around for the easiest qualifier armed with full information at each stage regarding who has entered so far etc.Also there are often qualifiers taking place all over the world,many in different time zones from IPT headquarters and all of them have different degrees of efficient communications systems available,such as live internet connections etc.The entry deadlines are very close to the event date.In such circumstances it might be difficult in practical terms to follow a system where all the entry names could be passed by IPT to each venue at a similar time to enable them make their own draws and for those draws then to be communicated back to IPT in a timely fashion.A degree of uniformity is obviously desired as regards how and when the draw is set out for publication etc and centralisation also suits this purpose.

Secondly and a little ironically IPT would probably say that one of the potential problems you are hinting at is actally one of the main reasons why they do all the draws themselves centrally instead of at the venue ie to ensure that the draw is above board and that there are no influences on the outcome.Apart from anything else many players travel internationally to the venues and cannot always be there in time for players meetings or draws,if the draws were to be held at that time.Picture the scenario of a qualifying venue with a handful of local entrants and only 2 international entrants flying in who on arrival find that the draw has already been done at the venue in their absence and that they are the only two players in the entire field who have been 'drawn' to play in a preliminary,with all the locals getting a bye.Probably above board but........

Clearly no system is perfect in the circumstances of IPT events but the logic of centralised draws at IPT headquarters for all qualifying competitions is not too difficult to sympathise with.

 

[Timberly]

A "closed door" draw with the TD & the backer does not help their image at all IMO. This really does not sit well with me, esp when the backer is such good friends with one of the players. Mike S played in two groups and only in the 2nd group did he encounter a high caliber player... one really high caliber player.

Secondly and a little ironically IPT would probably say that one of the potential problems you are hinting at is actally one of the main reasons why they do all the draws themselves centrally instead of at the venue ie to ensure that the draw is above board and that there are no influences on the outcome.

I would think at the venue with witnesses there to witness that there was an actual drawing of names into groups would be the right way to go. Two people, the TD & backer of the tour sitting over dinner picking groups as casually as one would pick the seating chart for their wedding reception will never be something that I agree with. I can't believe that anyone other than the ones who do that and the ones who benefit (MS) from that could possibly be ok with it.

As for the qualifiers....the IPT could email the pool room the list of people that have paid their entry for that event, the pool room could draw the names for the chart in front of witnesses and anyone that didn't show up would forfeit.

I see what you're saying but I still think there's more ways on the up & up to do things.

 

[memikey]

Yes Timberley I know what you mean but there are practical time difficulties etc with the qualifier draw logistics as I mentioned.......and my post pretty clearly referred to the qualifying comps only.....would agree with you completely about the Vegas draw method and I didn't comment upon that for that very reason

 

[jjinfla]

Oh Timberly, it must be wonderful to be so beautiful, so intelligent, so full of common sense, so know it all, so without any faults. I am sure you possess a doctorate and are the CEO of some powerful corporation. Your credentials are impeccable.

I am sure you would love it if all of your friends were completely honest with you and pointed out each and every fault you have.

Did you ever hear of puffing? As in a realestate agent over accentuating the positive about a house they are selling.

Or maintaining a positive mental attitude in life if you want to succeed?

You would have more credence if you would point out the defects in other tournaments as well. Are you trying to make your name by only putting the IPT down? I never hear you criticize any other tour. I imagine they are all perfect.

The Expo was a great success. Nothing goes wrong at DCC. The WPBA does everything right. According to Timberly. But the IPT does nothing right, according to Timberly.

Keep in mind that pool players are 3x7 (for the most part) and are responsible for their own actions. It is not up to you or me to tell them how to run their lives. If they want to sign contracts that is their prerogative. Just about every person working signs a contract. You do work don't you? You did sign all those forms that personnel put before you, didn't you? Everytime you sign your name you are signing a contract. What is the big deal?

The IPT has been far more successful, and lasted far longer, and paid out more money, than I ever thought it would. The players are still committed to it, and guess what, the checks they are receiving are all good.

In actuality I am sure the IPT players, and all hopeful IPT players, would hope that you would stop criticizing the IPT and start praising it. Or at least point out something good about it. By being so negative you may convince Kevin that he is doing the wrong thing and decide to go and start a dart tournament. Then you would have every IPT player pissed at you.

Have you been to any IPT tournaments? To any IPT qualifiers? Just to have first hand knowledge of how they are run and what the players are saying about them. Imagine the work, and money, that has had to go into these events to make them a success. And you point out picayune faults, and continuosly harp on them.

Trying to run a tournament with 200 players is no easy task. It is completely astonishing that they are able to pull it off with such limited problems. Players playing games that can mean $5,000, $10,000, $20,000 or more if they win can put a lot of pressure on the players and can cause them to act up if they are not properly controlled.

Yes I am pro IPT because I went to a couple events and really was impressed by what I saw. Yes they have faults, but who doesn't. Are the faults so terrible that they really effect the outcome? I don't think so at all.

The main thing to remember, the only thing to remember, is, are the players happy.

Jake

 

[jjinfla]

I would think

To be perfectly blunt my dear,

I don't think Kevin and his staff give a rats ass what you think.

It is his show, his money, his game. He will do it his way.

Get that into your dumb head.

Jake

 

[ironman]

An interesting and objective post Timberley but you could be being a little unfair on the above small point.That was always how the qualifier draws were going to be done and the system certainly has not changed in any way.You imply that that there is a better way of doing the qualifier draws and in the context of the rest of your post presumably you mean that you would prefer them to be done at each venue in front of the players.

In this respect,to be fair to IPT there are obviously several factors to take into account,many of them purely practicalities,for example:-

Firstly it is obvious that IPT would not want the venue to know the number or identity of the entrants until after the entry deadline is passed.This is to ensure that entrants cannot shop around for the easiest qualifier armed with full information at each stage regarding who has entered so far etc.Also there are often qualifiers taking place all over the world,many in different time zones from IPT headquarters and all of them have different degrees of efficient communications systems available,such as live internet connections etc.The entry deadlines are very close to the event date.In such circumstances it might be difficult in practical terms to follow a system where all the entry names could be passed by IPT to each venue at a similar time to enable them make their own draws and for those draws then to be communicated back to IPT in a timely fashion.A degree of uniformity is obviously desired as regards how and when the draw is set out for publication etc and centralisation also suits this purpose.

Secondly and a little ironically IPT would probably say that one of the potential problems you are hinting at is actally one of the main reasons why they do all the draws themselves centrally instead of at the venue ie to ensure that the draw is above board and that there are no influences on the outcome.Apart from anything else many players travel internationally to the venues and cannot always be there in time for players meetings or draws,if the draws were to be held at that time.Picture the scenario of a qualifying venue with a handful of local entrants and only 2 international entrants flying in who on arrival find that the draw has already been done at the venue in their absence and that they are the only two players in the entire field who have been 'drawn' to play in a preliminary,with all the locals getting a bye.Probably above board but........

Clearly no system is perfect in the circumstances of IPT events but the logic of centralised draws at IPT headquarters for all qualifying competitions is not too difficult to sympathise with.

"Draw" seems to be a real contradiction. Why not have a computer draw.

 

[ironman]

To be perfectly blunt my dear,

I don't think Kevin and his staff give a rats ass what you think.

It is his show, his money, his game. He will do it his way.

Get that into your dumb head.

Jake

I agree, KT and his staff does not give a rats ass what any of us think.
The oil companies don't either.

 

[rackmsuckr]

To be perfectly blunt my dear,

I don't think Kevin and his staff give a rats ass what you think.

It is his show, his money, his game. He will do it his way.

Get that into your dumb head.

Jake

Jake,

Back down, buddy, it's OK. Timberly is extremely intelligent and she is only voicing some concerns. For obvious reasons, I am PRO-IPT, but after next year, I will probably be on the outside looking in as well (unless a women's tour starts....with 200 players? ) Or unless my husband makes it in.

Regardless, I am the last one to say the IPT has done everything perfectly. I started a regional tour from the ground up...picked the people, had the shirts and products made, secured the venues, got the owners to put up money, did the advertising, 'hired' the TD's and refs, got the donations and door prizes, did the draw, held the player's meetings, unpacked and unloaded all our stuff at the tourney, and played in it, wrote the articles, maintained the photo album, and kept the standings up to date. So on a small scale, I know how hard it is to put something together.

Trust me, I know that some of the people are going to be fallible, no matter how much trust and responsibility you put in them and that guidelines, rules, etc. have to bend and change for the better as your tour progresses. You learn from experience. What doesn't work for you now, needs to be changed later.

I think the draw does have to be done the way they are doing it as Memikey pointed out. Also, there could be some monetary incentive for someone at the qualifier to fudge a little on placement in the tourneys there as well. Let's say the owner gets 10% of them in the WO....hmmm, let's give him a bye...

Also, I am almost positive that Mike S. is absolutely not present at the draw. I think it is probably Deno and Kevin.

Also, at the Q's, I wouldn't hold the IPT responsible for not forfeiting the player as strictly as was done at the NOA. The TD at the Q's will usually give them a grace period as they do at all their normal tournaments. Especially if there has been a good excuse. They know how much these players have paid to enter and know there must be a good reason. Since most players were captive at the IPT site, there was no excuse not to be at your table.

Payouts, yeah they changed...probably more for an accounting standpoint. We were all told at the player's meeting and planned accordingly.

Mark Trainer - The jury is out, but I know for our situation, we are better off alone. He may have helped some players initially that wanted a steady income, but the incident with Angel soured me.

KOH - We were required to be there to get photos and press done, to sign those contracts (very general...I read contracts for a living and there was nothing disadvantageous in them), and were required to be there to launch the tour. We were required to be at the autograph table throughout the whole tournament and to appear at the Finals in a special section. If you're in for a penny then you're in for a pound. In other words, if you have made the commitment to show up, you may as well help the grand official launch by going the whole way.

The refs - by and large, they were overwhelmingly good. A thankless task, because on just about every shot, there is going to be one person that isn't happy. They had to make calls on hundreds, if not thousands of shots. To have 5 or 6 calls go south, isn't a tragedy, except for the players it involved. They were schooled at the outset on what to look for, and all were BCA trained. There will be more on the floor, I believe, for the WO.

All in all, my eyes are open and while I may not agree to everything that has happened; I could find faults with every existing tour out there if I looked hard enough. I know you want the best for all the players, Tims, and I give you kudos for taking a hard look at everything. I remain positive about the future of the IPT and applaud all the tons of hard work that has been poured into this tour...not only by Deno, Kevin and the staff of the IPT, but also the refs.

 

[jay helfert]

To be perfectly blunt my dear,

I don't think Kevin and his staff give a rats ass what you think.

It is his show, his money, his game. He will do it his way.

Get that into your dumb head.

Jake

A little over the top there Jake. I don't think her post is meant for, or directed to Kevin or Deno. It is for the others of us who are interested in the sport and its' future. This is actually the perfect FORUM for such posts.

 

[JC51534]

been there done that

Anyone that has gone to the trouble of holding tournaments or creating and running pool tours know that the negative people are always the loudest and usually the most ill-informed.

They always know what's wrong, but most wouldn't be able to operate the coat check at an event.

These are the same people that complain about politicians but never vote.

The IPT follows the Golden Rule. Whoever has the gold Rules!

You negative people are too negative to ever get the gold; hence you will never make the rules.

And that’s a good thing………………………………..

 

[stevelomako]

To be perfectly blunt my dear,

I don't think Kevin and his staff give a rats ass what you think.

It is his show, his money, his game. He will do it his way.

Get that into your dumb head.

Jake

I just can't be as nice as everybody else about your STUPID ASS comments and STUPID ASS thoughts about anything and everything.

It really shows how much of a DUMBASS you are. A real low/no class piece of work. Why do I keep getting the image of a nut-swinger?

You really need to accept the fact that you're a never was (please tell us how well off you are and how happy you are with your life again ) and you'll probably always remain a never will be.

I can just picture you being the type that walks into the poolroom and everybody looks to see who came in and they all look at each other with that "ohh god, it's HIM" look.


Have a nice day

 

[Gunn_Slinger]

To be perfectly blunt my dear,

I don't think Kevin and his staff give a rats ass what you think.

It is his show, his money, his game. He will do it his way.

Get that into your dumb head.

Jake

No need to get all crappy on her.

Most of the IPT is a mirror of the PGA, and this weekend
the big question on the mind of everyone is "how did Phil and Tiger
draw each other:. There are always questions at any organized
event, trust no one is rampant.
I hope the IPT works out, the bashing it took was huge, and now that a huge tournament was held I still hear all the rumblings. I guess I'm tired of all the bitterness and wish people would just chill for a bit.
have a pleasant day
mrs.g