Just before you pull the trigger...

Jude Rosenstock said:
I read the same article about the quiet eye. This information that Scott posts is 100% accurate.

I just went over this youtube my friend posted of me. If you go over it a bit, you can watch how my eyes do not move at all once I'm down on the shot. I admit, I do pull the trigger a little fast so it may be tough to notice but if you watch my eyebrows, you'll see they don't change.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab7D2vpUWfM
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I was listening to the audio on the video and the camera guy kept saying "lovely" all the while pointing the camera at the girl's booty on the next table. OK, I didn't watch the whole thing but I didn't see your eyes move but mine did.
JoeyA
 
This is a topic of interest to me because I've lately been toying around with both. As has been suggested, I've been looking at the CB last for at least 4 or 5 years. I noticed that my CB would get great position, but I'd miss the shot a lot. In short, I have needed to work on my shotmaking.

About two weeks ago, I started goofing around with looking at the OB last. Now, I've noticed a great deal of my shots are made, but my CB gets loose more often.

This evening I was playing on my home table and fell into dead stroke for about 20 or 30 minutes. The whole time I was looking at the CB last (as I stroked).

My runout ratio has risen in the last few weeks and I'm pretty sure it's because of the switch I made.
 
Luxury said:
The same way humans learn to do many things without looking. Stevie ray Vaughn playing guitar behind his back.
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A little off topic, but Jeff Healey comes to mind too. He died yesterday, FWIW.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Have you noticed you've got some "dynamic BHE" going on? I just wondered because I don't remember you mentioning that you use it on purpose.

pj <- was that a favor or a shark?
chgo
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No shark. Jude was probably just doing Hal a favor and providing some quasi-subliminal intentional misdirection for the rest of us.
JoeyA
 
BRKNRUN said:
I wonder how many truely focus intently on the spot on the OB...

What I mean by that is...If I completly tunnel vision in on that exact spot on the CB...I tend to lose the shot picture and tend to lose the spot on the OB which can lead to a miss.

If (while looking at the OB) I maintain the visual (peripheral) picture of the OB going into the pocket...I make more shots...

So..I wonder...if at least for some...there is a degree of "over focus" on the spot on the object ball.
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Huh?? What I mean is, what did you just say? I'm kidding some what but I don't see any spots or contact points on either ball.

Where the cue tip hits the c/b is an area no matter how center or offset. The c/b to o/b contact reference is just ball overlap so I don't see any spot or contact point. I think it keeps aiming simple. If I were to focus on a spot I could loose that in a heartbeat especially going from c/b to o/b and back again.

Once zeroed in I go from a pause at the c/b to to the o/b when I take the cue back. My eyes never leave the o/b. That is for most shots but not all. Now if my eye surgery was successful I might even hit where I aim. LOL

Rod
 
BRKNRUN said:
I wonder how many truely focus intently on the spot on the OB...

What I mean by that is...If I completly tunnel vision in on that exact spot on the CB...I tend to lose the shot picture and tend to lose the spot on the OB which can lead to a miss.

If (while looking at the OB) I maintain the visual (peripheral) picture of the OB going into the pocket...I make more shots...

So..I wonder...if at least for some...there is a degree of "over focus" on the spot on the object ball.
Click to expand...

as far as the object ball go, i personally never focus on a spot; it's more an angle that i 'feel' and doesn't appear visual. i just make sure i put the tip where it needs to be on the CB before i shoot, and if the shot is a squirting one (what??) then that goes into the brain as well :eek:

the only time i use 'focal points' on the object ball is if i have to combo, and i'm thinking going over to feel here too considering the success rate.
 
Last stroke

When you play basketball and you're about to shoot a shot...

Do you look at the basketball or the net when you shoot?
 
cyrex said:
When you play basketball and you're about to shoot a shot...

Do you look at the basketball or the net when you shoot?
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i was thinking about comparing to the basket ball shot too (then i saw the smartass asking about the golf player..)
 
TX Poolnut said:
This is a topic of interest to me because I've lately been toying around with both. As has been suggested, I've been looking at the CB last for at least 4 or 5 years. I noticed that my CB would get great position, but I'd miss the shot a lot. In short, I have needed to work on my shotmaking.

About two weeks ago, I started goofing around with looking at the OB last. Now, I've noticed a great deal of my shots are made, but my CB gets loose more often.
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Clearly the solution for you is to keep one eye on the cueball and one eye on the object ball!
 
Not sure on this one, but it sure "feels" like when I miss, most often I'm looking at the cue ball. Just some food for thought.
 
I used to focus on the CB for my first year playing, then one summer between semesters, I moved my focus to the object ball. It was a little tricky for a week or two, but it stuck, and it's so far been the most substantial difference-maker in my game.

I liken the difference to a gun barrel. Focusing on the CB is like shooting a handgun with a short barrel, while focusing on the OB is like shooting a rifle.
 
Eye Patterns

For jump, masse', and break shots I look at the cueball last.

For the majority of standard shots I look at the object ball last.

If I come upon a really hard shot that I'm not comfortable with (and feel like I might have a 50/50 chance of making it - but for whatever reason feel like I should shoot versus playing safe) I will line up as best as possible, but will focus on the cueball last to help my confidence.

FYI: Ralf Souquest and from what I heard on an Accu-stats match commentary Earl Strickland look at the cueball last. I think if you're properly in line --- that can work for you just fine (but not the cup of tea to the majority of good players).
 
cyrex said:
When you play basketball and you're about to shoot a shot...

Do you look at the basketball or the net when you shoot?
Click to expand...

I've been reading a bunch of these "quiet eye" studies. One interesting one is about basketball free throws.

Free throws are a lot like pool shots because both have a "near aim" and a "far aim"

both have a "set" position followed by a final "back" stroke and forward stroke.

Good freethrowers shift focus from the near aim spot to a narrow area at the top of the front of the rim (the "far aim" spot) while in the "set" position.

But here's where the analogy with pool breaks down. During the free throw "forward" stroke the ball and hands obscure the far aim point. So you gaze at the target, and when the shot is done you want to still gaze at the target. But in the middle of this you can't see the target. They've noticed many of the good free throwers blink or avert their gaze during this obstruction time.

Anyway pool doesn't have this problem.

I'm probably gonna do a youtube thingy on this general subject in the next month or so.
 
mikepage said:
I've been reading a bunch of these "quiet eye" studies. One interesting one is about basketball free throws.

Free throws are a lot like pool shots because both have a "near aim" and a "far aim"

both have a "set" position followed by a final "back" stroke and forward stroke.

Good freethrowers shift focus from the near aim spot to a narrow area at the top of the front of the rim (the "far aim" spot) while in the "set" position.

But here's where the analogy with pool breaks down. During the free throw "forward" stroke the ball and hands obscure the far aim point. So you gaze at the target, and when the shot is done you want to still gaze at the target. But in the middle of this you can't see the target. They've noticed many of the good free throwers blink or avert their gaze during this obstruction time.

Anyway pool doesn't have this problem.

I'm probably gonna do a youtube thingy on this general subject in the next month or so.
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I think the basketball analogy breaks down before it even gets going. The only reason to look at the cue ball last is to ensure you contact it accurately, which has lots to do with where it goes before and after hitting the object ball. But there's no question about where you're going to contact the basketball and no concern with where it goes after making/missing the shot.

I look forward to your next video, but I'd leave basketballs out of it.

pj
chgo
 
Extreme cut

What if you have and extreme cut and the aiming line is now where on the ob? It seems to mess with my aim or stroke or something when I look at the spot on the ob when my aiming point is not on the ob at all. I notice it affects my aim on longer shots in this example.

Do you look at the spot your aiming at, normally a point on the rail or do you still look at ob?

mb
 
This is an important question. What is most important, imo, is that your sight line be parallel to your stick. So if the tip is at centerball, and you're looking directly over the tip, then you'd better be looking to a spot outside the object ball.

If you want to look at the contact point on the object ball, then you should be looking FROM the equivalent contact point on the cueball.

As you say, when you look from the center of the cueball to the contact point on the object ball, you're looking in a different direction than you're stroking.

This is discussed in my two aiming videos at the link below.

mbippus said:
What if you have and extreme cut and the aiming line is now where on the ob? It seems to mess with my aim or stroke or something when I look at the spot on the ob when my aiming point is not on the ob at all. I notice it affects my aim on longer shots in this example.

Do you look at the spot your aiming at, normally a point on the rail or do you still look at ob?

mb
Click to expand...
 
I guess I've always tended to be a CB last type of guy. I tend to use more english than most, and am not afraid to do so, ala the Filipino players (although unfortunately not nearly as good). So where I hit on the CB is important, if I'm lined up correctly the OB will go in.

But since returning to the game again after a long layoff, I re-remembered that I worked on looking at the OB last on at least half of my shots, and it did take a while and felt weird but was ultimately better once I got used to it. Hard for me to put extreme draw on a ball without looking at the CB, but much like the golfer who putts and looks at the hole on his last stroke instead of the ball, you will contact the ball and it will most likely go where you intended, assuming your fundamentals are good etc. I even used that drill in golf and it was amazing, it allows your brain to just work like it should without you getting in the way.

For me, while I still like to focus on the CB on breaks, masses, extreme english (not used very often), jumps, and certain other types of shots, more by feel, there are definitely other shots that I'm finding that focusing on the OB last really lets me hone in on the OB contact spot and be slightly more successful with the shot. Just hard for me to let go, as another poster mentioned, but with practice that will come.

Great thread, and like so many others very timely for me personally as I was just working on this yesterday!

Scott
 
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