Just curious...anyone get paid from Reno yet?

Another week...anybody receive a check or story?

Martin

jazznpool said:
I hope the Reno prize checks are starting to arrive to the players...was just curious. Anybody recieve a check?

Martin
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As far a filing lawsuits against the IPT, if anyone thinks this will net any results or any cash, they are living in a dream world. Big corporations and big shots like KT aren't afraid of threatened legal action, they actually laugh at it (unless it's from a powerful opponent like the SEC, FTC or FDA) As the former owner of a multi-million dollar corporation I can tell you from experience that the little guy doesn't stand a chance. First of all the IPT is a corporate structure. This means in the event of bankruptcy KT and any of his personal assets cannot be touched, The coporation need only file bankruptcy and end of story, nobody gets anything. Secondly, even if someone wants to go ahead and sue, it's going to cost them $5000 to $10,000 just to get the paperwork started. Once started it could take years of legal battles and hundreds of thousands of dollars in attorney's fees. So if KT is planning not to pay, you can bet he has everything worked out in advance. There will be no assets, no property, no cash, no nothing to be divided amoungst the creditors / players. If the US goverment can't bring him down, then I don't suppose the players can.
 
Tim5000 said:
As far a filing lawsuits against the IPT, if anyone thinks this will net any results or any cash, they are living in a dream world. Big corporations and big shots like KT aren't afraid of threatened legal action, they actually laugh at it (unless it's from a powerful opponent like the SEC, FTC or FDA) As the former owner of a multi-million dollar corporation I can tell you from experience that the little guy doesn't stand a chance. First of all the IPT is a corporate structure. This means in the event of bankruptcy KT and any of his personal assets cannot be touched, The coporation need only file bankruptcy and end of story, nobody gets anything. Secondly, even if someone wants to go ahead and sue, it's going to cost them $5000 to $10,000 just to get the paperwork started. Once started it could take years of legal battles and hundreds of thousands of dollars in attorney's fees. So if KT is planning not to pay, you can bet he has everything worked out in advance. There will be no assets, no property, no cash, no nothing to be divided amoungst the creditors / players. If the US goverment can't bring him down, then I don't suppose the players can.
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So, what is the good news?
 
I don't know what the good news is, but I wish all the players the best of luck with this whole situation.
 
pooltchr said:
IPT/KT tells them when to be there, how to dress, when to begin playing (working), when to sign autographs, and agrees to pay them in exchange for their services. IPT/KT also determines how much they will make based on how well they do their job. In business circles, this is often called "Pay for Performance" or "Commission". The players are "Professional" which means this is their livelihood. Whether they are employees or contractors, it's the same relationship.
Steve
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Once an organization starts telling an Independent Contractor where and what time to be someplace and dictating what they do the Independent Contractor becomes an employee, no matter what paperwork is signed.
 
Gerald said:
Once an organization starts telling an Independent Contractor where and what time to be someplace and dictating what they do the Independent Contractor becomes an employee, no matter what paperwork is signed.
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I don't think that's necessarily true. There appears to be plenty of grey area on this one.

This topic on the IRS website seems to leave a lot of things up in the air as they relate to the IPT. http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc762.html

For instance it cites three categories, Behavioral control, financial control and the Type of Relationship itself.

From the website:
Behavioral Control covers facts that show whether the business has a right to direct or control how the work is done through instructions, training, or other means. Debatable for IPT, would depend on what part is considered 'work'. The linked pdf file says that time and location may be less important than directions on how to perform the work. There are rules, but KT doesn't tell players what shots to shoot. During the matches they are on their own.

Financial Control covers facts that show whether the business has a right to direct or control the financial and business aspects of the worker's job. This includes:

The extent to which the worker has unreimbursed business expenses, To a great extent
The extent of the worker's investment in the facilities used in performing services,Very little investment
The extent to which the worker makes his or her services available to the relevant market,Players definitely work for other people in the relevant market
How the business pays the worker, and
The extent to which the worker can realize a profit or incur a loss. Players can get compensated any range of values depending on their performance...full range of profit or loss I'd say.

Type of Relationship covers facts that show how the parties perceive their relationship. This includes:

Written contracts describing the relationship the parties intended to create,
The extent to which the worker is available to perform services for other, similar businesses, I'm sure they have those.
Whether the business provides the worker with employee–type benefits, such as insurance, a pension plan, vacation pay, or sick pay, Nope.
The permanency of the relationship, and Not permanent
The extent to which services performed by the worker are a key aspect of the regular business of the company. Key aspect, but not sure how this would be interpreted legally

----------------------
End of quote

So all in all, I'm not sure what status the players would have WRT the IPT. I don't think they would be employees, but they aren't quite Independent contractors either, unless they have a contract in place.

Since they are really splitting the sponsor's money with KT, (if everything goes according to plan) maybe they are closer to silent partners than anything else.

Cheers,
RC
 
<<As the former owner of a multi-million dollar corporation I can tell you from experience that the little guy doesn't stand a chance.>>

I hear where you're coming from but while I am not a multi-millionaire, I personally and my small business entities have been the prevailing party in legal disputes with Farmer's Insurance, Mattell, and UBS PaineWebber...so SOME "little guys" do stand a lot more than a chance.

Secondly, any action against the IPT for non-payment AND I CERTAINLY HOPE THERE WILL BE NO NEED FOR SUCH A THING...would naturally be a Class Action so all of a sudden, the "little guy" isn't so little anymore.

Finally as to the insulation of corporate executives from personal exposure, there are numerous ways to "pierce the corporate veil" so it just isn't so that corporate executives are necessarily exempt from personal legal attack....and for example, damages for fraud are NOT discharagable in a bankruptcy.

Again, so there is no doubt, I have no idea whether, and I do not for a moment suggest that there has been any actionalbe conduct committed by anyone at the IPT...in fact I genuine hope not.
Regards,
Jim
 
Jim, yes i agree with your reply. I was just stating what might happen if an individual were to attemp legal action. Of course, a class action would be a whole different story.
 
Tim5000 said:
As far a filing lawsuits against the IPT, if anyone thinks this will net any results or any cash, they are living in a dream world. Big corporations and big shots like KT aren't afraid of threatened legal action, they actually laugh at it (unless it's from a powerful opponent like the SEC, FTC or FDA) As the former owner of a multi-million dollar corporation I can tell you from experience that the little guy doesn't stand a chance. First of all the IPT is a corporate structure. This means in the event of bankruptcy KT and any of his personal assets cannot be touched, The coporation need only file bankruptcy and end of story, nobody gets anything. Secondly, even if someone wants to go ahead and sue, it's going to cost them $5000 to $10,000 just to get the paperwork started. Once started it could take years of legal battles and hundreds of thousands of dollars in attorney's fees. So if KT is planning not to pay, you can bet he has everything worked out in advance. There will be no assets, no property, no cash, no nothing to be divided amoungst the creditors / players. If the US goverment can't bring him down, then I don't suppose the players can.
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Youre not wrong there!

A few years ago my fellow directors at the time made a decission to terminate somebody that I didn't agree with. I put my neck on the line for my friend and to cut a long story short I agreed to resign in exchange for a reasonable amount of cash, After I resigned the payment didn't arrive so I sued them. Three years, and over $100,000 later the case is currently waiting to go on the list in the supreme court of Australia. I have learnt a hell of a lot along the way and I stand a good chance to win. However not one lawyer's initial estimate was even close to the current situtation. Legal threats don't scare everyone and not many can afford it either. I got lucky and found several people that are now carrying my case no win no fee but 99% of people would have to give up years ago. The law doesn't favor the little guys.
 
Interesting ...

but the IPT website is right there in big bold print with pictures stating that 2007 tour card holders will be guaranteed $100,000 next year. (it rotates, so you might have to wait about 20 seconds to see it). Big as life, and it is new to the front page of the website.

So, my common sense tells me, if there was not going to be a tour next year for sure, why would they bother to put this on the front page on the website? And I don't think KT is trying to SNOW anyone into thinking alll is well if it isn't, I just don't.

go look for yourself: IPT website
 
Snapshot9 said:
but the IPT website is right there in big bold print with pictures stating that 2007 tour card holders will be guaranteed $100,000 next year. (it rotates, so you might have to wait about 20 seconds to see it). Big as life, and it is new to the front page of the website.

So, my common sense tells me, if there was not going to be a tour next year for sure, why would they bother to put this on the front page on the website? And I don't think KT is trying to SNOW anyone into thinking alll is well if it isn't, I just don't.

go look for yourself: IPT website
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Right. Because Trudeau Has never been known to lie. Like saying certain herbal remedies are a proven cure for cancer, even though the FDA says they aren't.

Nooooooooo. KT wouldn't just LIE to the players, now would he?

Russ
 
Hi TheOne...<<The law doesn't favor the little guys.>>

That is FOR SURE. But as you will hopefully prove and as I have on more occasions than I wish was the case, it is not impossible for the little guy to prevail. "Little" is a relative term however. You and I are not TOO little given the sums of money we have paid out in legal fees.

Best wishes on the outcome of your suit.
Regards,
Jim
 
av84fun said:
Hi TheOne...<<The law doesn't favor the little guys.>>

That is FOR SURE. But as you will hopefully prove and as I have on more occasions than I wish was the case, it is not impossible for the little guy to prevail. "Little" is a relative term however. You and I are not TOO little given the sums of money we have paid out in legal fees.

Best wishes on the outcome of your suit.
Regards,
Jim
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Cheers Jim, I hope so too. Its funny as with these types of cases both sides tend to reach a point fairly early on where they've spent too much on fees to walk away and settle. I am a feeling the players will get paid but I think the mid term viability of the IPT is in serious doubt. I really hope they get paid and nobody has to pay solicitor fees!
 
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