Justis Case...Pre-Barton or Post-Barton

Does the Barton interior cause any harm or damage to the Justis cases? That is the only ethical reason I can see for this stance on warranty. I assume it must compromise the case in some way...

KMRUNOUT


You must be kidding, I do not know of any product that comes with a Life time warranty that if modified by anyone except the builder does not have it's warranty void. I build cues that have a life time warranty to the original owner, other than tip replacement any other modifications void my warranty.

In all cases if one of my cues has a problem that was do to anything construction related I will pay the shipping back to me and then back to the customer. Most cue makers building cues do not appreciate anyone making modifications or even repairs to their cues. In all cases it is kinda an unspoken etiquette that people are refereed to the original builder by other cue makers, I suspect that case makers would or should operate the way, it is just a matter of respect.

Have a nice day
 
I wasn't calling you a liar JB I was calling the lunatic who reported the story a liar. However, I"m not always right <<shocking>>. For the record, I wouldn't trust my cues in ANY case being run over by a car so it's no a knock on instroke. I believe that is asking too much of a case and I'm sure almost all will agree.
 
You must be kidding, I do not know of any product that comes with a Life time warranty that if modified by anyone except the builder does not have it's warranty void. I build cues that have a life time warranty to the original owner, other than tip replacement any other modifications void my warranty.

In all cases if one of my cues has a problem that was do to anything construction related I will pay the shipping back to me and then back to the customer. Most cue makers building cues do not appreciate anyone making modifications or even repairs to their cues. In all cases it is kinda an unspoken etiquette that people are refereed to the original builder by other cue makers, I suspect that case makers would or should operate the way, it is just a matter of respect.

Have a nice day

Regarding a warranty I can agree that the original maker can and should stipulate clearly what voids the warranty.

But I disagree on the idea that it's an etiquette thing to not work on other people's products.

The way I see it is that when a consumer buys a product then that product is theirs to do with as they please.

And there are shops that can and do work on products to repair, modify and customize them as the consumer desires.

It is up to the consumer to decide for themselves whether the benefit of a warranty outweighs the customization they desire.

The truth is that the proper comparison would be changing tires on a car. If you buy a nice car but the tires are not as good as you like then you can change to better tires with no compromise to the warranty on the car.

The fact is that Jack has stated that he makes his cases so that the interior can be changed easily. With that in mind there should really be no problem with changing the interior. Especially if the same tubing is used.

The way I do the replacement interiors the whole thing can be done in about 15 minutes with next to no chance to damage the rest of the case.

As I think about it I might even offer a guarantee to purchase any Justis case that is damaged by the installation of an UltraPad interior. I will need to think about this but really it's so very easy that I doubt this guarantee would ever be needed.
 
I wasn't calling you a liar JB I was calling the lunatic who reported the story a liar. However, I"m not always right <<shocking>>. For the record, I wouldn't trust my cues in ANY case being run over by a car so it's no a knock on instroke. I believe that is asking too much of a case and I'm sure almost all will agree.

Well for what it's worth the whole running over by a car thing came into being when Cue and Case knocked off Porper and as a way of touting their durability they parked Jim Lucas' Jaguar on top of one and used it in the advertising.

One of my customers saw that ad and asked me if our cases would also protect against that. I said I don't know let's try it and we went outside and he drove his Mercedes on top of the case.

Thanks for not calling me a liar. I am many things but I don't lie about my products.

And for the record, you could trust your cues to a Zero Haliburton cue case if it were being run over. They withstand 2000lbs per square inch. That might damage the car if someone runs over one of those.
 
Regarding a warranty I can agree that the original maker can and should stipulate clearly what voids the warranty.

But I disagree on the idea that it's an etiquette thing to not work on other people's products.

The way I see it is that when a consumer buys a product then that product is theirs to do with as they please.

And there are shops that can and do work on products to repair, modify and customize them as the consumer desires.

It is up to the consumer to decide for themselves whether the benefit of a warranty outweighs the customization they desire.

The truth is that the proper comparison would be changing tires on a car. If you buy a nice car but the tires are not as good as you like then you can change to better tires with no compromise to the warranty on the car.

The fact is that Jack has stated that he makes his cases so that the interior can be changed easily. With that in mind there should really be no problem with changing the interior. Especially if the same tubing is used.

The way I do the replacement interiors the whole thing can be done in about 15 minutes with next to no chance to damage the rest of the case.

As I think about it I might even offer a guarantee to purchase any Justis case that is damaged by the installation of an UltraPad interior. I will need to think about this but really it's so very easy that I doubt this guarantee would ever be needed.



Hello John I hope all is going well. John that is the case with cue makers, there have been many threads started here and on other forums regarding how cue makers feel about some one working on their cues. It always ends the same way with regards to how warranty issues are handled after such work has been done, and that is that their warranty is null and void.

In fact most of the big cue makers will not even work on another cue makers cues if the person is living out of respect for that maker. Some will contact the cue maker and ask if he minds that they work on his cue, and then there is always a smaller group who will do so without regard for the original cue makers feelings.

The problem with work outside some ones shop is the fact that once a product is altered it is no longer an original product from the original maker. It may be nothing but a difference in the finish used, but it is still altered and no longer original. Now this actually has nothing to do with the work itself, the work may or may not be outstanding, however, when a collector buys something they want originality and in many situations that is More important than condition.

Here is a thread started by a very highly respected Cue Maker who also posts to Az Billiards, that applies to this situation in my opinion:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=210808

Oh and by the way, I agree the customer can do anything they want with a product after they buy it, but the cue maker can also devaluate the product if changes are made by not taking any responsibilty for the product if altered which can destroy the items resale value. This is the builders right and his only recourse when his products are tampered with, so when spending big dollars for something is it really worth the loss of value, in my opinion no but like you said the buyer can do what he wants to do. Maybe what I am saying only applies to cue makers, and not case makers I have been wrong before but in my opinion altering a collectible item has a major effect on the items collectibility and Mr. Justis has made it clear that altering his cases voids his warranty so obviously he feels the same way.

Have a nice day John
 
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All this talk about rubber bumpers... There are bumper-less cues, you know. Is the message really:"If you have a bumper-less cue, do not buy a certain brand of cases?. Is it not easier to pad the top and the bottom?

I like it when the cue fits nicely into a case and does not rattle inside. I like it that some cases you can load either-which-way, and still have the protection. I like the fact that some cases hold your cues in even if you flip it upside down with an undone lid and shake it a bit. Sh*t happens, you know. There are drunk people that play pool. There are pissed off people who just lost some dough and are distracted by that fact. I want my cues to get the utmost protection available on the market. Why call it an overkill if it is available for the same $ or less? Is it necessary under normal circumstances -- no. But if sh*t happens, I want that extra layer of protection for no additional cost.

It would be interesting to see a drop comparison. :D Just for shits and giggles... It will not change anybody's opinion anyway.
 
All this talk about rubber bumpers... There are bumper-less cues, you know. Is the message really:"If you have a bumper-less cue, do not buy a certain brand of cases?. Is it not easier to pad the top and the bottom?

Certain case makers are now including free drama with your case. This will protect your cues against damage. Contact the maker for specific drama levels available in each model.
 
Do you get sexual gratification from shaking the case. If you do, I guess its OK. I just tried it and got nothing. Wondering if I did it hard enough.

Just trying to figure out what makes people do these strange things.

Please don't shake my case.:grin-square:

Not a very educated response from a supposed respected casemaker.

Now let me answer why I shake it...it's a simple way to replicate what is going on when the case is in the trunk. With road vibration and just driving, the case will move with obvious momentum from a vehicle.

I do not want thousands of dollars equipment rattling and banging each other. God forbid, not only do I have to worry how to insert my cue in the case, but now I got to drive differently.
 
It would be interesting to see a drop comparison. :D Just for shits and giggles... It will not change anybody's opinion anyway.

I agree....call it a torture test.

Let's throw some loaded cue cases from each manufacturer in a dryer and let it tumble for 5 minutes.

The case that protects the best will be AZB's Case of the Year.

Perhaps Barton can do a video...lol
 
John is a nice guy but he copied Jack's cases. Jack is almost ready to retire so John knocking him is like a new cue maker knocking Gus. I agree that John has improved the case with the addition of some foam but i just put a few small pieces of foam at the bottom of my Justis case and it is fine.
To me they are both good case makers but John shouldn't disrespect Jack and visa versa.
To me it is unprofessional to disrespect a fellow worker in the same field.
Hopefully this feud can come to an end.
John you should take down the knock on your web site, it is unbecoming of you.:(
 
I've owned cases by both and I can honestly say at this point.....

I probably would buy from one of the many other builders who have not embarrassed themselves and $hit all over this forum like children playing in mud on a playground.

It's a damn shame really.



John is a nice guy but he copied Jack's cases. Jack is almost ready to retire so John knocking him is like a new cue maker knocking Gus. I agree that John has improved the case with the addition of some foam but i just put a few small pieces of foam at the bottom of my Justis case and it is fine.
To me they are both good case makers but John shouldn't disrespect Jack and visa versa.
To me it is unprofessional to disrespect a fellow worker in the same field.
Hopefully this feud can come to an end.
John you should take down the knock on your web site, it is unbecoming of you.:(

Didn't take long at all before this one hit the bricks too.

I just want to take both of them aside and smack the $hit out of them in the hopes they can see what this all looks like to the rest of us.

:( :confused: :angry:
 
Not a very educated response from a supposed respected casemaker.

Now let me answer why I shake it...it's a simple way to replicate what is going on when the case is in the trunk. With road vibration and just driving, the case will move with obvious momentum from a vehicle.

I do not want thousands of dollars equipment rattling and banging each other. God forbid, not only do I have to worry how to insert my cue in the case, but now I got to drive differently.


I understand your point completely, but it also appears that you also had ulterior motives for starting this thread which did not work out to your advantage, I mean you went from Green to Red.

I tried to tell you in the beginning that nothing good would come from starting a thread like this, and nothing has.

JIMO
 
I think it could cause damage to our case during the install and since we offer a lifetime warranty, we have every right to void said warranty when modifications are made that are not approved by us or to our liking.

Do you think GM would warrant the Ford engin installed in your Acadia?

I hope this answers your question.

It does indeed answer the question. I actually didn't realize that the warranty was lifetime. I like lifetime warranties. I totally understand your position. I guess I just personally don't agree with the "to our liking" part. I can understand if it might hurt the case, or if any skill is involved in swapping the interior out. I suppose there is also the aspect of other people seeing the case...in other words it might not properly advertise your product if it has been modified, and this advertisement could certainly and fairly be part of the reason you decided to offer the lifetime warranty.

No offense intended...I guess I was thinking *only* from the perspective of the benefit to the consumer, not as much to the manufacturer. My mistake.

KMRUNOUT
 
You must be kidding, I do not know of any product that comes with a Life time warranty that if modified by anyone except the builder does not have it's warranty void. I build cues that have a life time warranty to the original owner, other than tip replacement any other modifications void my warranty.

In all cases if one of my cues has a problem that was do to anything construction related I will pay the shipping back to me and then back to the customer. Most cue makers building cues do not appreciate anyone making modifications or even repairs to their cues. In all cases it is kinda an unspoken etiquette that people are refereed to the original builder by other cue makers, I suspect that case makers would or should operate the way, it is just a matter of respect.

Have a nice day


Manwon,

I was certainly not kidding. As a "matter of respect", I'm surprised you would suggest I were.

My EVGA graphics card comes with a lifetime warranty. This is a highly sensitive electronic component that could VERY easily be damaged by even an experienced computer builder. However, I am at liberty to take the card in and out of any computer I want, handle it in any negligent way I want, even make some modification all without voiding the warranty. There, now you know about a product that does what you didn't know one did ha ha!

If the original owner of one of your cues decided they wanted to put a Predator shaft on the cue, would that void the warranty? This doesn't require any skill or special technique other than being able to screw (no pun intended lol). This seems like a very similar and more accurate analogy in this case (pun intended). I guess my view is that if it (the aftermarket shaft) doesn't void the warranty, your point is confusing. If it does void the warranty, that sounds more like bitterness than any real concern that the product would be more apt to break and require repairs. To be honest, changing a tip on a lathe by a careless individual opens the cue up to FAR more damage than screwing on an aftermarket shaft. I can totally understand all repair work going to the original builder, so that they can be sure about the structural integrity of the product they are backing. But lets get serious...is sliding out the liner to a Justice case seriously likely to damage the product? Is the reason for the warranty policy anything other than competition between JB and Justice? You can dress up the issue however you want...the real hallmark of customer *service* is when the customer's satisfaction is placed first.

You don't need to agree with me, that's ok. You don't need to respect my opinion either...but it sure would be nice ;-) (And I'm serious about that)


KMRUNOUT
 
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Manwon,

I was certainly not kidding. As a "matter of respect", I'm surprised you would suggest I were.

My EVGA graphics card comes with a lifetime warranty. This is a highly sensitive electronic component that could VERY easily be damaged by even an experienced computer builder. However, I am at liberty to take the card in and out of any computer I want, handle it in any negligent way I want, even make some modification all without voiding the warranty. There, now you know about a product that does what you didn't know one did ha ha!

If the original owner of one of your cues decided they wanted to put a Predator shaft on the cue, would that void the warranty? This doesn't require any skill or special technique other than being able to screw (no pun intended lol). This seems like a very similar and more accurate analogy in this case (pun intended). I guess my view is that if it (the aftermarket shaft) doesn't void the warranty, your point is confusing. If it does void the warranty, that sounds more like bitterness than any real concern that the product would be more apt to break and require repairs. To be honest, changing a tip on a lathe by a careless individual opens the cue up to FAR more damage than screwing on an aftermarket shaft. I can totally understand all repair work going to the original builder, so that they can be sure about the structural integrity of the product they are backing. But lets get serious...is sliding out the liner to a Justice case seriously likely to damage the product? Is the reason for the warranty policy anything other than competition between JB and Justice? You can dress up the issue however you want...the real hallmark of customer *service* is when the customer's satisfaction is placed first.

You don't need to agree with me, that's ok. You don't need to respect my opinion either...but it sure would be nice ;-) (And I'm serious about that)


KMRUNOUT

Second your opinion, especially since it seems the analogy holds water in another respect. Same as with an aftermarket shaft on a cue's butt, when the latter is damaged, no customer with a lifetime warranty is ever going to send in the aftermarket shaft along with the butt in need of repair, it appears the interior of said cases, if the exterior needed repair work, could be swapped back to original without the manufacturer noticing. In other words, we are indeed discussing (aftermarket) addition (such as alloy weels on a car) versus alteration, or rather, a borderline case (what in Switzerland we refer to as "obligingness", i.e. to do with a company's goodwill towards its customers rather than a legal issue): in which category does e.g. as exchanging stock for a polished aluminum air filter with glossy breathers on a car engine fall? That any automobile manufacturer would void warranty because of it would be totally unheard of, and a disservice to the car industry itself, not just aftermarket parts suppliers!

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
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Manwon,

I was certainly not kidding. As a "matter of respect", I'm surprised you would suggest I were.

My EVGA graphics card comes with a lifetime warranty. This is a highly sensitive electronic component that could VERY easily be damaged by even an experienced computer builder. However, I am at liberty to take the card in and out of any computer I want, handle it in any negligent way I want, even make some modification all without voiding the warranty. There, now you know about a product that does what you didn't know one did ha ha!

If the original owner of one of your cues decided they wanted to put a Predator shaft on the cue, would that void the warranty? This doesn't require any skill or special technique other than being able to screw (no pun intended lol). This seems like a very similar and more accurate analogy in this case (pun intended). I guess my view is that if it (the aftermarket shaft) doesn't void the warranty, your point is confusing. If it does void the warranty, that sounds more like bitterness than any real concern that the product would be more apt to break and require repairs. To be honest, changing a tip on a lathe by a careless individual opens the cue up to FAR more damage than screwing on an aftermarket shaft. I can totally understand all repair work going to the original builder, so that they can be sure about the structural integrity of the product they are backing. But lets get serious...is sliding out the liner to a Justice case seriously likely to damage the product? Is the reason for the warranty policy anything other than competition between JB and Justice? You can dress up the issue however you want...the real hallmark of customer *service* is when the customer's satisfaction is placed first.

You don't need to agree with me, that's ok. You don't need to respect my opinion either...but it sure would be nice ;-) (And I'm serious about that)


KMRUNOUT



First of all lets get something very important straight, you have every right to you opinion and I can respect that fact even if I do not agree with it.

Now to the meat of the subject, to use a shaft as analogy almost made me laugh!!:D That has no bearing on the structural integrity of a cue and if that voided a warranty I agree that something is wrong. Unless the pin would need to be changed to accommodate the new shaft being used.

However, changing construction techniques or adding components or inlays to a cue certainly changes the cues design and alters the original specifications of the cue or for that matter the cases construction. These are invasive changes that will effect the way a cue or case functions in many respects. Another problem with these changes are that when the item has been changed it will effect the collectibilty, especially when the maker will not longer authenticate the cue or case and has voided it's warranty.

Next to intentionally use another makers product to market components to change that product without the makers permission is also in my opinion not something that should be done. Maybe it is just me and maybe to many my opinion is wrong, however, as the maker I have ever right to void a warranty on a product that has been altered in any of the above situations.

No the real hall make of customer service is when the customer and the maker make an agreement and the maker stands behind what he said he would do. Customer service is not a one sided affair, both a buyer and sell must hold up their end of the transaction. This is what honest people do and then comes the hand shake. Removing parts of any cue or case can result in damage, but that is really not the point here. The point is that any craftsman has the right to place limitations on a product they build concerning the items warranty, if the buyer make the choice to make those changes anyway he must not care about the makers view on the subject and he has to suffer the consequences of his actions.

Have a nice night
 
I have faith in Justis Cases. If anyone loses their lifetime warranty due to using one of our interiors then I will be more than happy to pick up the slack and extend a lifetime warranty on those Justis cases as well.

This applies to as long as Jack is actively making cases or if someone takes over his brand.

I am pretty confident that Jack Justis processes very few warranty claims, he has said so many times. I am also confident that 99.99% of the time the interior can be changed without any damage whatsoever to the case.

So, should anything fail on a Justis case that needs to be fixed then I will have it fixed if Jack won't. At my cost.

I hope that this will put the discussion surrounding this to rest. Much ado about nothing. My take on it is that if you don't want people to change things then don't make it easy to change things. Our interior takes four people to put it in the case. It takes us another hour to put the bottom on. Whitten is the same way. I once took a Whitten apart and it was hard to take it apart without damaging the case. I was highly impressed with the clever way they put it together.

To be honest I am never very impressed by any product I buy if it is super easy to take apart. I want things to be well designed and as seamless as possible. But the upside to buying things which are easy to take apart is that they are easy to modify. And I am the type of guy who modifies my stuff constantly to suit my needs. Always have been since I was a kid. I was the kid who ran a bike shop out of our storage room and could fix up just about any bike by cobbling together something from the parts I collected.

I have never been afraid to modify my cues with new ferrules, tips, wraps, joints, or whatever suits me. Then again I am not a collector. I don't buy things with the idea that I might someday sell them for more than I paid. I buy things to use them right now and I want those things to work the way I please. I don't care one bit about the manufacturer's feelings, or the cue maker's feelings, or the case maker's feelings when it comes to my products. If they want to retain ownership of the stuff I use then perhaps they should just rent it to me cheaply so that I can use it as long as I want to pay rent and the return it when I find something else I like better.

Now Mike Webb started a thread about whether cue maker's should modify the work of others as in inlaying another maker's cues.

After going through the thread this is what I had to say about it;

I think on reflection there is much more to be gained by staying hands-off of other maker's work.

For me I have always collected other people's work and used it to learn and to criticize. Had I to do it over again I would have just collected the cases privately and never mentioned them publicly.

And if offered another maker's work to substantially modify then I would turn it down. Beyond just repairs which I would do.

Good topic, thought provoking.

So what this means to me in this situation is that if someone said to me that they wanted me to take a Justis and replace the pockets, put some engraving on it, change the lid, stuff like that, I would refuse that work. But if they just want an interior change that is non-intrusive then I see no problem with that.

Anyway, like I said, I will pick up the slack on the Justis warranty because I am certain that the actual claims are very rare.

Best to all of you.
 
[…] To be honest I am never very impressed by any product I buy if it is super easy to take apart. I want things to be well designed and as seamless as possible. But the upside to buying things which are easy to take apart is that they are easy to modify. […]

While I understand your point, doesn't that also make products difficult to repair (= regardless of whose "fault" the damage is, wear & tear and age included)?

Believe me, I know the fascination of a product from an engineering point of view, and what you're alluding to with "seamlessness". But this also means one has to be extra-careful using such a product (= so that e.g. nothing accidentally falls into a case with your UltraPad interior).

I give cooking classes among other things, and one of the things that drive me mad about otherwise ingenious food processing/kitchen aid stuff is how to clean them if they can't be disassembled. Perhaps too far-fetched an example, but I'm sure you understand what I mean. It's one thing to admire a construction, yet another if it's meant for daily use…

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
While I understand your point, doesn't that also make products difficult to repair (= regardless of whose "fault" the damage is, wear & tear and age included)?

Believe me, I know the fascination of a product from an engineering point of view, and what you're alluding to with "seamlessness". But this also means one has to be extra-careful using such a product (= so that e.g. nothing accidentally falls into a case with your UltraPad interior).

I give cooking classes among other things, and one of the things that drive me mad about otherwise ingenious food processing/kitchen aid stuff is how to clean them if they can't be disassembled. Perhaps too far-fetched an example, but I'm sure you understand what I mean. It's one thing to admire a construction, yet another if it's meant for daily use…

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

Oh I totally understand what you mean. I didn't mean things should be poorly designed as to be impossible to take care of. I spent FIVE hours today dealing with that exact issue when I had to realign our laser. Finally in frustration I turned to the internet and found out how some other folks with similar types of lasers had solved the problem. The solution was that I needed to get some springs and replace the set screws so that the adjusting screws would stay put through back pressure. Worked like a charm and I was done within an hour after making the improvement.

I am also working on a new interior that is easily removable. But the skin and the shell will still be one unit and it will still take several people to put it together. However the guts will be easily removable yet still very clean and professional in appearance. That's the part I am struggling with. Technically I have solved the problem several ways. But none of them "look" good enough yet.

I realize that a rigid and difficult to remove interior is a negative when it comes to repair or some problem such as something dropped into the case. Two years ago I engineered a way to make the bottom of the case open up but I could not get it to be secure enough for my comfort.

I will solve the problem and make the cases more functional yet still professionally done.

And I hope that when I have finally settled on the removable interior that someone takes up my slack and makes some cool aftermarket mods for my cases. Then I can be just like Apple and put those mods into future versions as if I invented them :-) Just kidding, kind of......
 
First of all lets get something very important straight, you have every right to you opinion and I can respect that fact even if I do not agree with it.

Ok gotcha...I guess the "are you serious" comment sounded a bit disrespectful...maybe it was just a figure of speech or I took it the wrong way. Thanks for clarifying.

Now to the meat of the subject, to use a shaft as analogy almost made me laugh!!:D That has no bearing on the structural integrity of a cue and if that voided a warranty I agree that something is wrong. Unless the pin would need to be changed to accommodate the new shaft being used.

I think we are on the same page here. We are saying the same thing.

However, changing construction techniques or adding components or inlays to a cue certainly changes the cues design and alters the original specifications of the cue or for that matter the cases construction. These are invasive changes that will effect the way a cue or case functions in many respects. Another problem with these changes are that when the item has been changed it will effect the collectibilty, especially when the maker will not longer authenticate the cue or case and has voided it's warranty.

Again, I agree with you. I said (less clearly than you) that making those types of changes (with the cue analogy) would be reasonably prohibited by the warranty. I guess the questions remains if the liner of the case in some way contributes to the overall structural integrity. It sounds like you are suggesting that changing inlays in a cue is the same level of invasiveness as sliding out a case liner? The cue modifications seem like something far more invasive and requiring skill to me. That is why I see a distinction there. As for the collectibility, isn't that an issue for the case owner to decide to deal with or not? I suppose you could look at it as the manufacturer trying to support and enhance the branding of their product or something?

Next to intentionally use another makers product to market components to change that product without the makers permission is also in my opinion not something that should be done. Maybe it is just me and maybe to many my opinion is wrong, however, as the maker I have ever right to void a warranty on a product that has been altered in any of the above situations.

Hmm...there are LOTS of industries built around this very concept. What about the giant aftermarket car parts industry. There are millions of engine parts one can buy to modify their small block Chevy engine, for example. Now granted this certainly must void that warranty, but doesn't necessarily make it "wrong". Also, by JB offering his product, that seems to me to only *increase* the chances of Justis selling a case. I bought a larger capacity battery for my HP laptop. The battery is not made by HP. The computer works better now. I was thinking of getting a new laptop (definitely NOT HP due to crappy battery among other things). However the new battery breathed a bit of new life into this product. Is that a bad thing?

No the real hall make of customer service is when the customer and the maker make an agreement and the maker stands behind what he said he would do. Customer service is not a one sided affair, both a buyer and sell must hold up their end of the transaction. This is what honest people do and then comes the hand shake. Removing parts of any cue or case can result in damage, but that is really not the point here. The point is that any craftsman has the right to place limitations on a product they build concerning the items warranty, if the buyer make the choice to make those changes anyway he must not care about the makers view on the subject and he has to suffer the consequences of his actions.

What you describes sounds like the minimum expectation of customer service. Anyone can be nice when people are nice to them. As you mention, the specific alterations are not the point here. True "service" is selfless. I guess I take a more Christian view of the idea..."love your enemy, turn the other cheek" and such. Being nice to people even if they are not nice to you. There may be some upfront costs associated with this view, but in the long run it rarely costs anyone to do this. Though I realize it is a very high expectation and many will not see it as worth shooting for. It certainly isn't the view the typical business person takes.

In any case thanks for the reply. It is always interesting to see how different people approach a situation...I think that is why we all enjoy forums. Without differing opinions this board would sure be boring.

Thanks again,

KMRUNOUT
 
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