K55 & K66

D

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
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Somebody explain to me what exactly these terms mean? And can you provide pics showing the difference?

And what difference do they make with regards to playability?

r/DCP
 

K66 vs. K55

Here is my question: If I have an 8' table that is 44" wide and designed for K66 rubber. My rail nose is 1 7/16" off the cloth. What would be width be and what would my nose height be if I changed to K55 rubber?
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For years until WW2 Brunswick Carom/Pool tables used 'All-Natural rubber' (from trees).

The first rubber to succeed that with the closest 'Angles' to the '1845' rubber was K43, it was a little faster because it was a 'Synthetic' material!

Brunswick introduced K66 for the 'Gold Crown' line of pool tables.

The angles were significantly 'Shorter' than K55 and 'Faster'!

That's what I know.
 
It's the cross sectional shape of the rubber. If you were to cut the rubber in half with a saw, that's the shape you'd get. K55 and K66 are slightly different.

One is not inherently better or worse than the other. The table wood rails need to be designed for the particular shape.

Of note, Diamond cushions on their 9' table are K55, and so are their cushions on their 7' table. But the nose radius is wildly different between the two. So one K55 shape does not necessarily match another K55 shape "exactly".

Besides the shape, the rubber used can vary in hardness, and some cushions have a cloth backing strip on one or both sides.

All of the above will affect how the balls come off the cushions.
 
Edit to add:
If you were a table manufacturer, you would pick the cushion you want to use first, and then design the table around it. Not the other way around.

K55 is slightly bigger than K66, so it has more "meat". Most of the top commercial brands use K55. Having that extra "meat" might lead to longer life and or better bouncing? Just a hypotheses on my part.
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
Somebody explain to me what exactly these terms mean? And can you provide pics showing the difference?

And what difference do they make with regards to playability?

r/DCP
Click to expand...
edited 09/24:

artemis.jpg

These are the two rail profiles, taken from the Artemis homepage (I thought it to be called K55 and K66).

  • Intercontinental No. 66 is used by Diamond tables.
  • Pool No. 66 is used by Brunswick tables.
The rails play quite differently: Intercontinental No. 66 (Diamond) plays faster and with a shorter rebound angle, while Pool No. 66 (Brunswick) offers a slightly longer and more forgiving bounce.


Personally, I prefer the feel of Brunswick rails, but since more and more players train and compete on Diamond tables, I decided to order a second set of rails for my pool table. This way, I can switch between the two profiles depending on which tournament or money game I'm preparing for.
 
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kanzzo said:
View attachment 814270
These are the two rail profiles, taken from the Artemis homepage.

  • K55 is used by Diamond tables and corresponds to Intercontinental No. 66 in the image above.
  • K66 is used by Brunswick tables and corresponds to Pool No. 66 in the image above.
The rails play quite differently: K55 (Diamond) plays faster and with a shorter rebound angle, while K66 (Brunswick) offers a slightly longer and more forgiving bounce.


Personally, I prefer the feel of Brunswick rails, but since more and more players train and compete on Diamond tables, I decided to order a second set of rails for my pool table. This way, I can switch between the two profiles depending on which tournament or money game I'm preparing for.
Click to expand...
Gold crown tables use k55 unless you're talking gc1 and 2
 
Diamond has become so dominant in the U.S. that many players — myself included — have modified their Brunswick Gold Crown tables to use Diamond-style rails.

Some prefer the classic look and build quality of a Brunswick, but want to practice banking and rail shots on equipment that plays as close to a Diamond as possible.

This involves replacing the original Brunswick rails with K55 profiles, like those used on Diamond tables.

Here is an example of Savannah modifying her Gold Crown I with Diamond rails. (Savannah calls it "Diamonized" :D)

Diamonized.jpg


So perhaps your GCIV was modified the same way.

(I’m definitely not an expert — this is simply what I came up with after trying to figure out how to install Diamond rails on my Gold Crown V.
Maybe a professional table mechanic can confirm or disprove my theory.)
 
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kanzzo said:
Diamond has become so dominant in the U.S. that many players — myself included — have modified their Brunswick Gold Crown tables to use Diamond-style rails.

Some prefer the classic look and build quality of a Brunswick, but want to practice banking and rail shots on equipment that plays as close to a Diamond as possible.

This involves replacing the original Brunswick K66 rails with K55 profiles, like those used on Diamond tables.

Here is an example of Savannah modifying her Gold Crown I with Diamond rails. (Savannah calls it "Diamonized" :D)

View attachment 814387

So perhaps your GCIV was modified the same way.

(I’m definitely not an expert — this is simply what I came up with after trying to figure out how to install Diamond rails on my Gold Crown V.
Maybe a professional table mechanic can confirm or disprove my theory.)
Click to expand...
I'm not sure where or who you got your information from, but Gold Crowns never came with K66 cushions. The Gold Crown I and II came with Monarch SuperSpeed cushions which were techniclaly a K55 profile (same angle as today's K55's) but slightly smaller; definitely NOT a K66 profile. Gold Crown III-VI (including your GCV) came with Brunswick SuperSpeed cushions which are most certainly K55 profile and the Gold Crown VII comes with Artemis Intercontinental No. 66 which are also K55 profile.

The term "Diamondized" has nothing to so with changing the cushion profile and everything to do with extending the subrails and recutting the pockets to the geometry Diamond uses. While this does require new cushions, the profile remains what came on the Gold Crown originally: K55.
 
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DrCue'sProtege said:
Somebody explain to me what exactly these terms mean? And can you provide pics showing the difference?

And what difference do they make with regards to playability?

r/DCP
Click to expand...
It all depends on what the rails were designed to use. They are not interchangeable so one is not "better" than the other. If you put K55's on rails designed for K66 (and vice versa), the table won't play right.
 
rexus31 said:
I'm not sure where or who you got your information from, but Gold Crowns never came with K66 cushions. The Gold Crown I and II came with Monarch SuperSpeed cushions which were techniclaly a K55 profile (same angle as today's K55's) but slightly smaller; definitely NOT a K66 profile. Gold Crown III-VI (including your GCV) came with Brunswick SuperSpeed cushions which are most certainly K55 profile and the Gold Crown VII comes with Artemis Intercontinental Pool No. 66 which are also K55 profile.

The term "Diamondized" has nothing to so with changing the cushion profile and everything to do with extending the subrails and recutting the pockets to the geometry Diamond uses. While this does require new cushions, the profile remains what came on the Gold Crown originally: K55.
Click to expand...

I had and still have big difficulities finding online the difference between K55 and K66 (so it's quite likely I used the terms in a wrong way).

my problem:
Diamond rails play differently compared to my Brunswick.
I wanted to install Diamond rails on my Brunswick

I tried to find out, which cushions are used.
Artemis Intercontinental No. 66 are used for Diamond
Artemis Pool No. 66 are used for Brunswick

Artemis does not use the terms K55 or K66 on their website.

The picture taken from Artemis homepage shows the difference between these two profiles.

artemis.jpg

So to my understanding there is no such profile as Artemis Intercontinental Pool No. 66 (either Artemis Intercontinental No. 66 or Artemis Pool No. 66).
 
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kanzzo said:
Artemis Pool No. 66 are used for Brunswick
Click to expand...
No, they aren't. When someone changes the cushions on their Brunswick to Artemis, the Intercontinental No. 66 cushions are installed (what Diamond uses on their 9' tables and what Brunswick now uses on the Gold Crown VII.
kanzzo said:
Artemis does not use the terms K55 or K66 on their website.

The picture taken from Artemis homepage shows the difference between these two profiles.

View attachment 814400
So to my understanding there is no such profile as Artemis Intercontinental Pool No. 66 (either Artemis Intercontinental No. 66 or Artemis Pool No. 66).
Click to expand...
I inadvertently included "pool" in the name, which is incorrect.

Maybe this will give you some clarity.
shop.diamondbilliards.com

Artemis Intercontinental No. 66 Cushions K55 Profile (set of 6)

Looking for a cushion rubber that's fast, accurate, and long-lasting? Look no further than Artemis Intercontinental No. 66! Made in Germany from premium-grade, full gum-rubber, this six-piece set is built to deliver 20-25 years of exceptional gameplay. Unlike extruded rubber, which contains...
shop.diamondbilliards.com shop.diamondbilliards.com
 
Yes, I was able to find this page before, so I knew that Diamond uses Artemis Intercontinetal No. 66 K55 profiles and I ordered a set to get installed for my Brunswick.

It's quite interesting to see that Brunswick has adopted the same Artemis Intercontinental No. 66 cushions used by Diamond, starting with the release of their Gold Crown VII model.
 
FWIW, I went with Diamond Black cushions on my Gold Crown I. I've had Artemis on another table and I don't think the inflated price tag is worth it.
 
kanzzo said:
I had and still have big difficulities finding online the difference between K55 and K66 (so it's quite likely I used the terms in a wrong way).

my problem:
Diamond rails play differently compared to my Brunswick.
I wanted to install Diamond rails on my Brunswick

I tried to find out, which cushions are used.
Artemis Intercontinental No. 66 are used for Diamond
Artemis Pool No. 66 are used for Brunswick

Artemis does not use the terms K55 or K66 on their website.

The picture taken from Artemis homepage shows the difference between these two profiles.

View attachment 814400
So to my understanding there is no such profile as Artemis Intercontinental Pool No. 66 (either Artemis Intercontinental No. 66 or Artemis Pool No. 66).
Click to expand...
No Brunswick uses Artemis cushions. (save for the brand new GC7). Gold Crown's 1-6 use Brunswick Super Speed cushions. They are all K55 profile. The Monarch ones on GC 1-2 were slightly different than the ones from GC 3-6. That's why when someone restores a GC1-2 they have to do more work with the wood rails to get the modern rubber to fit (if they want it perfect). The cheaper Bruswicks use a similar cushion to the Super Speed (same shape, K55), but it has less of the fabric strips to reinforce it.

K66 profile is used on some other brands. I "think" Connelly and/or Olhousan might use them. I'm not certain of this.
 
@kanzzo I've never heard of anyone doing what you just described. I'm intrigued! Let me get this straight:

You have a GC5?
-You have two tops for it?
-One original top with the Super Speed cushions the table shipped with?
-One other top that you installed Artemis Intercontinental 66 cushions on it? Where did you get the second top from?
-You switch the two tops back and forth as needed?

Is that right?
 
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