Kamui killing me

[BigDon]

Hey guys, sorry I am sure there is other threads but didn't see any. I am having problems getting some of the Kamui blacks to stay on. I have no problems with any other tip but these. I do install these probably 3-1 over anything else but these are the only problem. I have tried scoring the glue surface, tried a skin layer of glue let dry and then sand. The last one I tried some 10 minute loctite epoxy and it popped off in just a few minutes of use. This is starting to dig into my pocket with the re installs. Any help?

 

[pescadoman]

Hey guys, sorry I am sure there is other threads but didn't see any. I am having problems getting some of the Kamui blacks to stay on. I have no problems with any other tip but these. I do install these probably 3-1 over anything else but these are the only problem. I have tried scoring the glue surface, tried a skin layer of glue let dry and then sand. The last one I tried some 10 minute loctite epoxy and it popped off in just a few minutes of use. This is starting to dig into my pocket with the re installs. Any help?

Use THIN cyano prior to tip install on the tip NOT gel(use gel for the install). The problem is glue starvation. A skin of gel won't soak in and gets removed when you sand. I apply drops until the thin begins to pool(except one particular soft that kept soaking it up.....goodbye to the money I spent on the tip....I asked John about it and he said it would make a good break tip..wtf...)

The joint between tip and ferrule will starve under compression with the gel. The thin creates a barrier to prevent this.

I had the same problems until this method was shared with me(I can't remember who it was)

Sand, drop as needed, let dry, sand briefly(all with 400). Scuff ferrule slightly with 400.

Try that and I doubt you will have another problem.....

 

[BigDon]

Thanks for the response Randy! Maybe the thin is where I am missing the connection. Are you using this method with all your tips or is Kamui the only ones you have had to take this route with? Like I said I am not having any issues with the rest, just these.

 

[TomHay]

Are you touching the glue side with your fingers before install? The oil from your finger could be acting as a realease agent.

Are you blowing dust off after sanding? Could be moisture in it.

 

[Tommy-D]

Try a fresher glue,or one different than what you've been using.

It could be the shaft is not tight enough in the chuck,and backs away when the cutter makes contact.

The cutter itself could be dull enough to not cut right.

After you face,try using a fresh,clean boxcutter blade,or a small,ground steel plate to check the ferrule for a high spot right in the middle.

If you try all of these,and still not getting them on solid,then you're dealing with a cutter too high or too low,and it's leaving a tit in the middle of the face.

If you eliminate that plus all of the above,then the tips HAVE to be bad. Tommy D.

 

[BigDon]

Try a fresher glue,or one different than what you've been using.

It could be the shaft is not tight enough in the chuck,and backs away when the cutter makes contact.

The cutter itself could be dull enough to not cut right.

After you face,try using a fresh,clean boxcutter blade,or a small,ground steel plate to check the ferrule for a high spot right in the middle.

If you try all of these,and still not getting them on solid,then you're dealing with a cutter too high or too low,and it's leaving a tit in the middle of the face.

If you eliminate that plus all of the above,then the tips HAVE to be bad. Tommy D.

Thanks Tommy! I make sure that the shaft is tight. I am using a carbide insert cutting tool. I have not checked it lately since you mention it. I will check that and rotate if needed.

This is the first I have really used the gel. Never had any problems with regular glue. Does anyone think that I could be squeezing out the gel when I clamp down on the tip? I use a good bit of pressure from the tail stock. Maybe just holding for 30 seconds with finger pressure would help or go lighter on the tail stock?
Thanks for all the help guys!

 

[BigDon]

Are you touching the glue side with your fingers before install? The oil from your finger could be acting as a realease agent.

Are you blowing dust off after sanding? Could be moisture in it.

Hey Tom,
No I don't touch the glue surface and I use a paper towel to wipe off the sanding dust. Good things to think about. I feel like I am taking even more precautions with the Kamui tips but they are the only ones I am having problems with.

 

[chefjeff]

Thanks Tommy! I make sure that the shaft is tight. I am using a carbide insert cutting tool. I have not checked it lately since you mention it. I will check that and rotate if needed.

This is the first I have really used the gel. Never had any problems with regular glue. Does anyone think that I could be squeezing out the gel when I clamp down on the tip? I use a good bit of pressure from the tail stock. Maybe just holding for 30 seconds with finger pressure would help or go lighter on the tail stock?
Thanks for all the help guys!

I've had success with pressing then releasing the pressure, then repeating that, then holding the pressure for 30 seconds or so until it's stuck.

My theory is that that creates different lengths of molecular bonds, so the tip holds when hit hard, at an angle, etc.. I'm no chemist, so this is just a theory, but so far for me it holds (get it?, holds! OMG, somebody stop me!)

Seriously, though, give it a try. I'd like some feedback on this theory.

Thanks,

Jeff Livingston

 

[TomHay]

Hey Tom,
No I don't touch the glue surface and I use a paper towel to wipe off the sanding dust. Good things to think about. I feel like I am taking even more precautions with the Kamui tips but they are the only ones I am having problems with.

Is there any chance they could be counterfiet? I have yet to use one but hear good things about them.

 

[Newton]

I had some issues with these as well but found it related to bad CA glue. Chose a Loctite version which was a little flex in - however at the moment using Tigers CA glue and the procedure I described further down on this thread :
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=198981&page=2

Never lost a tip after this...

K

 

[pescadoman]

Thanks for the response Randy! Maybe the thin is where I am missing the connection. Are you using this method with all your tips or is Kamui the only ones you have had to take this route with? Like I said I am not having any issues with the rest, just these.

I had issues with a couple Mooris as well. My glue was also fresh(the dates were good and the bottles just opened). I now use this method on all tips. You will find that some don't suck up very little or any cyano at all.

I can't take credit for the process, but it makes perfect sense when you think about it.... The glue holds the tip and the ferrule together. If the tip soaks up the glue before it hardens then there is little or no bond. Scuffing the ferrule lightly actually provide more surface for the glue(think little ridges instead of perfectly flat.....)

You can use the best glue in the world, but if it fails to keep good contact with both services it won't matter.

Try the method I suggested and you won't have another issue...

 

[Tommy-D]

The only other thing I can think of that could cause a problem like this is the possibility you're installing these on an import cue and it has a cheesy plastic ferrule.

I've run into these several times the last few years. Luckily,in all but one case I saw the problem while the shaft was still in the lathe.

I did have a recent local customer that had problems keeping a tip on his J+J break cue,which cost me 2 free replacements. I solved it the same way I've done all the others where the glue refused to stick good enough to pass my plier test.

Change the ferrule.

I wouldn't think tailstock pressure would push all the glue out,unless you really clamped it tight.

I use just thumb pressure,which is enough to get it done with viable glue and flat surfaces.

The glue I've been using for a little over a year now,(but not the same bottle) is Loctite Professional,in the tall blue bottle.

You can get it at Wal Mart or Lowe's. It has just enough working time to get it centered,but sets up fast with thumb pressure. You just have to wipe off squeeze-out FAST,or risk creating more work when the paper towel gets stuck.

Glad I could help,Tommy D.

 

[jayman]

It just works.

 

[Dirtbmw20]

Interesting thread for a newbie like myself, subscribing to keep up.

By all means, I haven't installed hundreds of tips and only a handful of Kamui's (literally only about 4-5) but I haven't done anything different for a Kamui than any other tip and haven't had one come off yet. I put a black super soft on my personal cue and I have beat the hell out of that tip and no problems at all and put a brown soft on my buddies cue and no problems with it either. Knock on wood.....

 

[cuejo]

The only tip that I have ever had problems with are the samsara jump break tips.
I think I had a cheap ferrule on that cue that I just didn't notice.
I use a whole bunch of different glues...........I like the Loctite gel in the black bottle, the gorilla with rubber, Loctite 495, tough tip from cc
I sand both the tip and ferrule, then score the tip and ferrule with razor, glue and clamp. Trim and hand over the cue
I don't know how many tips I install, but I don't have many failures.


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?2f4ddb

 

[SCCues]

Does anyone think that I could be squeezing out the gel when I clamp down on the tip? I use a good bit of pressure from the tail stock.
Maybe just holding for 30 seconds with finger pressure would help

I had a problem years ago because I put too much pressure on the tip with the tail stock before the glue dried and I think I actually pressed most of the glue out before it set!

Try using finger pressure for 30 seconds. I've never had a tip come off doing it this way.

I use Loctite Super Glue Gel......

 

[Rodney]

I've had similar problems in the past. Priming the tip, and leaving the tip under presure for at least 3 minutes solved the problem.

Rodney

 

[stevel]

View attachment 228727

It just works.

That's what I've been useing for several years.