interesting article on kamui tips.
http://www.cuecomponents.com/kamuitips.html
http://www.cuecomponents.com/kamuitips.html
kamui tips
- Thread starter daniel
- Start date
A MAP is standard for most companies. I don't disagree with it at all. If they didn't do this online sellers would drive the price of quality products down by making pennies on profits. Look around ebay or Amazon, the market is flooded with things driven way down. The internet has changed business, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse, but you can't blame a company for pretecting the value of their products.
Wow, I wonder what the author of the article thinks of the new $25 chalk?
I think we probably already do...
Wow, I wonder what the author of the article thinks of the new $25 chalk?
I'm sure Joe wouldn't be shy about sharing he's thoughts on it if asked.
Wow, I wonder what the author of the article thinks of the new $25 chalk?
HaHaHa I was thinking that too. :bash:
wow. i feel bad for speaking high of kamui's now. i would like to know which layered tip besides kamui has the most number of layers, as I believe the extra layers is what helps grab the cue ball so much better. I never had a Moori tip, might be time for me to try one out.
You might as well stop buying 95% of billiard products then because just about all have a MAP for their dealers. As does Moori.
I think most of the production cue/shaft manufacturers operate similarly. I'm guessing that's why most of the online retailers sell the productions cues/shafts for the same price (the variance always seems to be shipping costs and throw-in freebies like soft case, cue holder, etc) I'm not too worried about it...if I think something is too expensive I just don't buy it.
MAP is not illegal in and of itself. It can be illegal when mixed with other practices. There are also many ways to get around it, there is a reason lots of people give "instant rebates" and "free items" with the product. Perfect example is the gaming console business. Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo all have MAP on their consoles. That is the reason why you see places like Best Buy offering free gift cards or free games when you buy consoles at times, because they can't lower the price.
In the pool industry, it's all over. But, most companies have an MSRP and a MAP price, and the MAP price is a % below the MSRP. So, when you go to McD's site you see the MSRP and when you go to a vendor you end up seeing the MAP. Some vendors toss in lots of freebes like cases and break cues and such to get around the MAP. Basically, any time you see a billiards dealer giving you something free with your cue it's purely to get around MAP and offer you a better deal than their competitors.
And, actually, MAP can be very helpful for the smaller resellers. If it wasn't for MAP some of the larger shops could sell cues for much cheaper because of getting them with volume discounts. Seyberts could be buying McD cues in batches of 3,000 and getting a great deal, while a small shop might only sell a total of 100 McD's a year and pay quite a bit more for them wholesale. If Seyberts was able to mark them down to a % above what they paid and the small shop did the same %, Seyberts would get all the business. Not a very good help to the small businessman now is it?
Brian
In the pool industry, it's all over. But, most companies have an MSRP and a MAP price, and the MAP price is a % below the MSRP. So, when you go to McD's site you see the MSRP and when you go to a vendor you end up seeing the MAP. Some vendors toss in lots of freebes like cases and break cues and such to get around the MAP. Basically, any time you see a billiards dealer giving you something free with your cue it's purely to get around MAP and offer you a better deal than their competitors.
And, actually, MAP can be very helpful for the smaller resellers. If it wasn't for MAP some of the larger shops could sell cues for much cheaper because of getting them with volume discounts. Seyberts could be buying McD cues in batches of 3,000 and getting a great deal, while a small shop might only sell a total of 100 McD's a year and pay quite a bit more for them wholesale. If Seyberts was able to mark them down to a % above what they paid and the small shop did the same %, Seyberts would get all the business. Not a very good help to the small businessman now is it?
Brian
Probably the single biggest electronic item in the world this past decade... the iPod, in all it's variations.
MAP'd. BIG TIME. Aggressively. You sell'em below their MAP, Apple finds out, you don't sell them any more.
Wal-Mart has a deal worked out with Apple to make their price a dollar less so they can always be "the lowest Price". That's the only variation you'll see on a current generation iPod, price-wise.
Once they've become end-of-life or discontinued, pricing varies.
And yes, retailers offer freebies with iPod purchases as a method of "savings" for the customer. Free iTunes cards, cases, screen protectors, etc.
There are many other examples of MAP pricing across the electronics industry.
The dealer in the linked "article" (more accurately an editorial) is simply publishing his sour grapes. He (or any of us) may not like MAP pricing policies, but they certainly are not illegal, else the court would be clogged with complaints regarding it. It's also nothing new. Methinks this thread was started to fuel discontent with Kamuii, in light of their new chalk and all the hand-wringing about that product and it's price.
MAP'd. BIG TIME. Aggressively. You sell'em below their MAP, Apple finds out, you don't sell them any more.
Wal-Mart has a deal worked out with Apple to make their price a dollar less so they can always be "the lowest Price". That's the only variation you'll see on a current generation iPod, price-wise.
Once they've become end-of-life or discontinued, pricing varies.
And yes, retailers offer freebies with iPod purchases as a method of "savings" for the customer. Free iTunes cards, cases, screen protectors, etc.
There are many other examples of MAP pricing across the electronics industry.
The dealer in the linked "article" (more accurately an editorial) is simply publishing his sour grapes. He (or any of us) may not like MAP pricing policies, but they certainly are not illegal, else the court would be clogged with complaints regarding it. It's also nothing new. Methinks this thread was started to fuel discontent with Kamuii, in light of their new chalk and all the hand-wringing about that product and it's price.
In 6 months you will get a free cube of Kamui chalk with each new Kamui tip tip bought and it would still be too much money IMO. The good thing is we don't need to buy them, we have a choice. Not like water, gas, oil, electricity, taxes, and so on. Johnnyt
With any package of 3 Talisman tips, you get a break tip and a shaft towel
with an embroidered Talisman logo.
But a box of 25 and you get that plus a polo shirt with the logo.
Great tips and I get a wash cloth and clothes. Can't beat that.
Its way better than rummaging thru the Good Will boxes.
with an embroidered Talisman logo.
But a box of 25 and you get that plus a polo shirt with the logo.
Great tips and I get a wash cloth and clothes. Can't beat that.
Its way better than rummaging thru the Good Will boxes.
I could only get through about half of the link. Too much for me to absorb. Kamui tips are good tips, although not the only good tip available. But, IMO, I get the impression of sour grapes coming from Cue Components. They couldn't work the deal with Kamui that they wanted so they badmouth Kamui. In the business world, that is normally a very bad move. Often times other product makers may think twice about getting into talks with Cue Components for fear they may get the same treatment that Kamui got. Just sayin'.
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Charlie, You are 100% correct. That is exactly what happened. I wonder who will be the next target. I feel sorry for them already.
Apple is a great business model, With your support in the Kamui brand we will continue to produce the best products for you.
I could really care less as long as their tips keep performing the way they are performing. It is the whole reason I switched from Moori to Kamui in the first place!
I would agree that price fixing, and other forms of holding distributors by the balls is wrong, but the article tried to make it sound as if it's against the American way, and I beg to differ.
As an American living and working in Japan for ailliards and Darts supplies organization in the late 90's, I found myself faced with exactly the same obstacles described in the article when it came to American makers.
These business practices may suck, but they ARE the American way, and businessmen around the world are learning from the best. It just sucks when the tables get turned.
dave
As an American living and working in Japan for ailliards and Darts supplies organization in the late 90's, I found myself faced with exactly the same obstacles described in the article when it came to American makers.
These business practices may suck, but they ARE the American way, and businessmen around the world are learning from the best. It just sucks when the tables get turned.
dave