Wow Mully, where were you all this time???
Keeping your back arm straight...
- Thread starter ktrepal85
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Wow Mully, where were you all this time???
I agree with this. ^
Your duty is to control the cue...we all have our own ways of doing so.
When your hand is inside compared to your elbow, I call this 'flying elbow'....
...the opposite is 'side-arm'
Ray Reardon won six world snooker titles with a flying elbow....
...Gary Nolan also had a flying elbow....he played world-class tournament 9-ball....
...he played even better for the cash.
You in good company....
This is something you could try. Align the cue when you are standing.
Aligning the cue tip slightly toward the inside of your aiming line will
move your elbow toward your body when you get down for your shot.
Aligning the cue tip slightly toward the outside of your aiming line will
move the elbow away from your body when you get down on the shot.
Align your cue with the true aim line as you are getting down to shoot.
.
(I align my cue toward the outside of the aim line for elbow clearance)
.
I've been keeping my greatness hidden from the masses.
MULLY
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
But if the cue is going straight the CB to the short rail back to the tip is still gonna happen regardless where the elbow is.
Now, if he's having problems with delivering the cue, yes, work on getting things lined up. That's all I'm saying.
MULLY
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Does it matter?
I think I know what your talking about, and I wish I had more consistent form in my stroke. Then I watch old Segal and Reyes games on U Tube and they really sweep their arm out some times. But in their prime it didn't matter as they still kicked butt. So I have come to the conclusion it's different strokes for different folks.
I think I know what your talking about, and I wish I had more consistent form in my stroke. Then I watch old Segal and Reyes games on U Tube and they really sweep their arm out some times. But in their prime it didn't matter as they still kicked butt. So I have come to the conclusion it's different strokes for different folks.
And here I thought you were just going to suggest he buy a more expensive cue.
:thumbup:
Jeff Livingston
ktrepal,
20 something years ago when I was an aspiring wanabe practicing 6 hours per day, I thought the bees knees was to get wrist, elbow and shoulder in a perfect line.
To do so requires extreme hip contortions or side on standing, which requires severe neck twisting to get face on to the shot, unless one has very narrow shoulders.
Over time I realized that seeing the line is far more crucial than forcing the body into a position where the head and eyes are not well positioned to visualize the line of shot.
So imho, focus on that, and train yourself to stroke pretty straight from a slightly unplaned set up... which most pros have anyway. It's simply a matter of coordination to make a pretty straight stroke by timing which muscles come into play to correct an imperfect planar wrist, elbow and shoulder alignment.
Keep in mind that if the elbow wrist line is vertical, but the shoulder is right of the cue, then a pure bicep contraction will not move the cue along the direction it is pointed to. It will move toward your shoulder, not to the tip of the cue as many presume.
imho, the biggest virus players have is thinking that most their problems are going on behind them. It's a paranoid tendency. 95% of their problems are right in front of them... their bridge placement primarily.
Colin
20 something years ago when I was an aspiring wanabe practicing 6 hours per day, I thought the bees knees was to get wrist, elbow and shoulder in a perfect line.
To do so requires extreme hip contortions or side on standing, which requires severe neck twisting to get face on to the shot, unless one has very narrow shoulders.
Over time I realized that seeing the line is far more crucial than forcing the body into a position where the head and eyes are not well positioned to visualize the line of shot.
So imho, focus on that, and train yourself to stroke pretty straight from a slightly unplaned set up... which most pros have anyway. It's simply a matter of coordination to make a pretty straight stroke by timing which muscles come into play to correct an imperfect planar wrist, elbow and shoulder alignment.
Keep in mind that if the elbow wrist line is vertical, but the shoulder is right of the cue, then a pure bicep contraction will not move the cue along the direction it is pointed to. It will move toward your shoulder, not to the tip of the cue as many presume.
imho, the biggest virus players have is thinking that most their problems are going on behind them. It's a paranoid tendency. 95% of their problems are right in front of them... their bridge placement primarily.
Colin
Well first, if your wrist is closer to your body than it should be, then I'm guessing your elbow is farther out from your body than it should be. If that's the case, then you are describing what posters here call a 'chicken wing.' I don't care for the term, myself, but that's just me. However, if you're describing a sidearm stroke, then that's different and disregard my suggestion that follows.
I don't agree with those who say not to worry about it as long as your stroke is straight. If you are crowding your arm with your torso --- even the slightest bit --- it can prevent you from successfully executing big shots as well as certain finesse shots.
The fix is a little complicated, and unfortunately, many people who claim they know how to fix it, really don't. The fix is a combination of an alignment adjustment and a change in position of your back arm. You're on the right track having someone stand behind you to tell you when your arm is straight. Then you can adjust your alignment.
Once you've done that, you have to try to find that same feel for every shot. That's where practice comes in. You can do that part on your own with some hard work. Then at some point you can have an instructor check on you.
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Typically the elbow pointing in towards your body is actually recommended if you cant be perfectly straight (which not many people can). Most Filipinos, Snooker players and a lot of pro players do this. Shane, Orcollo, Ignacio, Efren and the list goes on. Kevin Chang, Ko Pin Yi and Alex Pagulayan are the only ones I can think of who have near perfectly straight strokes.
A good one is to put something between your tricep and lat and hold it there while doing stroke drills. The other thing you can do is forgot you posted this or that there is anything wrong because it will haunt you forever.
Anyone who isn't considering the angle of the humerus, that is the line from shoulder to elbow, relative to the cue direction, is ignoring the fact that a vertical elbow to wrist set up will still result in the wrist moving away from the line if the stroke is a pure bicep contraction, as most so called technical coaches advise.
Very very few players ever get the humerus in a line over the cue. It is almost impossible without narrow shoulders or an extremely twisted body and neck position.
Colin
Very very few players ever get the humerus in a line over the cue. It is almost impossible without narrow shoulders or an extremely twisted body and neck position.
Colin
Hey Colin, could you be describing a different style? My shoulder and elbow are both directly over the line of the shot, however, I don't use the typical touch points that snooker players advocate. My weight distribution may be slightly different as well, as it is more geared towards the back leg, which puts me in balance relative to the bend in my torso and my position to the cue. I find this stance to be extremely effective, as well as I'm sure the stance you are suggesting.
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Hi Fran,
I'm talking from my observation of typical snooker stances, with chin on cue. It's possible that a higher head position makes it easier to get the 3 points on the same plane as a vertical blind pulled up from the cue.
Here's a typical snooker stance, showing the position of the shoulder right of the cue, from the player's perspective and the humerus at an angle to the cue direction. An isolated bicep contraction here would curve the tip right to left during the stroke, even if the forearm is hanging vertically. Other muscles need to come into play during the stroke to move the cue in a straight line, and this is true also for a non-vertical forearm.
Colin
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Getting the elbow, shoulder, head and bridge in line can be a puzzle, alright. Here's one possible solution: move the elbow farther from the body and turn the head more (red lines in pic below, exaggerated for clarity). This can be harder on the neck, maybe easier if you're opposite eye dominant.
pj
chgo
View attachment 99474
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Man, looks like he's blind in his left eye to favor his right so much. I have a more centered cue, but when I'm focused it feels like I'm seeing through one eye only, like Niels. I find that helpful for final focus on stick/CB/OB alignment.
pj
chgo
Perhaps the world's straightest potter, Neil Robertson, even with a contorted torso twist that would put most players in a spinal unit, cannot manage to get his shoulder on the same line as the bridge and hand.
Note that he cues under his right eye, making such a goal additionally difficult.
Note that he cues under his right eye, making such a goal additionally difficult.
It would seem the camera would have to be sighting back down the shot line, in order to see any lineup correctly.
When we setup our Video Analysis booth, the front & rear cameras are setup perfectly, via the use of a laser & mirrors in order to be precise.
Drawing a line on Neil's picture from an estimated center of cue ball, center line of cue stick, back up thru the upper torso to his elbow, might show a better alignment, especially if the picture were taken for that purpose.
When we setup our Video Analysis booth, the front & rear cameras are setup perfectly, via the use of a laser & mirrors in order to be precise.
Drawing a line on Neil's picture from an estimated center of cue ball, center line of cue stick, back up thru the upper torso to his elbow, might show a better alignment, especially if the picture were taken for that purpose.
I think cross-dominance like that might make it easier for some if they don't have to turn their head as far. It might also lend itself to focusing more on one eye when that's helpful.
pj
chgo
In FIG 3 , that fellow seems to be lining up for a left eye dominate shooting alignment. Even that alignment doesn't look to be perfect. Center line seems to be at the left side of his iris on his left eye.
But then again, I have never shot with a cue under my chin, using both eyes to aim, it's always been a dominate eye,under the cheek sorta thing, for me. I learned how to shoot a rifle & carried that format into playing Pool N Billiards