keilwood for suckers

skor said:
There are slow-motion videos that show tip compression as it hits the CB, which suggest a longer contact time than what the scientists might think. This makes me think that hard tips will cause a shorter impact time and less CB deflection, yet nowadays most pros use soft tips...

Slow-motion videos of draw and jump shots show the vibration of the shaft. I didn't find such a video on side spin, but it should be similar.

Low-end mass is crucial, as on impact the larger mass object will deflect the lower mass object. The lower the mass of the shaft front end, the easier it is for the CB "to push" the shaft to the side and keep the original vector.
It only makes sense if the shaft is flexible; it'll help for the CB to push it to the side even more.
Of course there has to be a balance here; you can't shoot with a noodle.

Just saying that the only thing that matters is low-end mass without explaining or understanding why, is only half an answer.
Click to expand...
Same scientists tell you tip hardness/compression has little effect on the ball. That's what I recall anyway.
 
muskyed said:
Just a curious question that I have zero knowledge on. Does a open or closed bridge affect deflection, or a long or shorter bridge length affect it any way? I only ask this because the general thinking from all the replies that I have read is that basically is only the front end weight that has any bearing on it.
Click to expand...
Extremely or short bridges may affect it a tad. But your tip also comes into play on those ends.
 
ShootingArts said:
The general thinking doesn't match the empirical data from long ago. I played pool with a 11mm tipped sixty inch twelve ounce snooker cue for awhile. That was my introduction to low deflection in the eighties. The first time I used a lot of sidespin on a table length shot, on a bar table, I missed the object ball several inches! This was with a one piece "house cue" style four point cue. I wish I had one to test today, I am pretty sure it was lower deflection than anything on today's market.

While people argue only the front few inches, let's say eight, matter, early testing with a robot having a rigid bridge put the lie to that. When they used bubble wrap or similar to simulate a human bridge they got results closer to what was expected. There was a time when a very tight closed bridge with a bridge length of four to six inches wasn't unheard of. That would give different results than the very common long and loose bridge of today. The vast majority of people today would pocket more balls if they cut their bridge length in half but that wasn't the question.

Forget pool room physics and delve into real physics and all of a sudden things like axis location and inertia matter. How much things matter is a good question but judging by the superlight cue from long ago I would say the first few inch concept is not accurate. Every bit of a cue matters to some degree and the stiffer the cue the more the entire cue matters. Somebody can thread a shaft onto an inch and a quarter steel bar and test for themselves if deflection remains the same. I would bet dollars to donuts on the result but in today's market that would probably be asking for weight on the money!(grin)

Hu
Click to expand...
I heard somebody shout the 'wild 7' Hu!!😂 Well said.
 
ShootingArts said:
My old partner was a physicist and inventor holding over eighty patents. He has been dead a long time and his patents expired. I see things he invented being used now.

I suspect you would have a hard time persuading him the butt didn't matter. The seventy-five cent question is how much does it matter.




Joey, you might be just the man to answer this question. Did Bob use soft maple for some of his shafts? Never encountered another shaft that was as much of a noodle as my early eighties Meucci.

Hu
Click to expand...
I've heard that as well. Anybody chime in that actually knows and hasn't heard tell by so and so??
 
skor said:
Of course there has to be a balance here; you can't shoot with a noodle.
Click to expand...

Obviously you never shot with an early Meucci!(grin) After ten years of gambling nightly with house cues I purchased a new Meucci for fifty bucks from an old friend that got them as lagniappe when he purchased video machines. People would laugh when I would sling that thing in a corner midset and grab a house cue. Everybody but the one I was playing! It took me about six months to learn to play with that thing. I think you could have wrapped one of those shafts around a light post without hurting it. A noodle it was!

Hu
 
It's not for suckers and I've classified them with carbon shafts. Perhaps I need to separate the two.

I don't like the hit of CF shafts because it feels dead to me and this type of process wood is officially killing the shaft.

I see wood shafts as a living/breathing thing. It changes and adapts over time. Sticking it in a kiln and sucking all the moisture out of it is the final nail in the coffin. It plays dead to me but there are remnants of a wood feel. It's not completely artificial like a carbon shaft.
 
billiards_watch said:
It's not for suckers and I've classified them with carbon shafts. Perhaps I need to separate the two.

I don't like the hit of CF shafts because it feels dead to me and this type of process wood is officially killing the shaft.

I see wood shafts as a living/breathing thing. It changes and adapts over time. Sticking it in a kiln and sucking all the moisture out of it is the final nail in the coffin. It plays dead to me but there are remnants of a wood feel. It's not completely artificial like a carbon shaft.
Click to expand...
Who says that "live" wood is the right way? It's all about getting used to it.
CF is superior to wood. No reason to cling to the past, especially if it is not as good (and that's coming from someone who still shoots film and listens to vinyl).
 
ShootingArts said:
Obviously you never shot with an early Meucci!(grin) After ten years of gambling nightly with house cues I purchased a new Meucci for fifty bucks from an old friend that got them as lagniappe when he purchased video machines. People would laugh when I would sling that thing in a corner midset and grab a house cue. Everybody but the one I was playing! It took me about six months to learn to play with that thing. I think you could have wrapped one of those shafts around a light post without hurting it. A noodle it was!

Hu
Click to expand...
I have and as I said, can't shoot with a noodle
 
skor said:
Who says that "live" wood is the right way? It's all about getting used to it.
CF is superior to wood. No reason to cling to the past, especially if it is not as good (and that's coming from someone who still shoots film and listens to vinyl).
Click to expand...
I can play with both. One or the other doesn't make me shoot any different.

Its advantage over wood is for beginners. There is point & shoot aiming and there is deflection aiming. Carbon has eliminated #2.

I've been playing since I was 16 so I have already learned both and pretty damn good at it. It won't do anything for me.

I've mentioned it before. Its advantageous for new players to start with carbon. It cuts the learning curve in half.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Like the Jacksonville experiment.http://www.sfbilliards.com/Misc/jax_bd150.pdf
Click to expand...
Bingo
So when side spin is applied, the shaft is thrown to the side. It's a good thing that it's flexible; otherwise, it might break....
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot 2025-05-02 at 18.59.51.png
    Screenshot 2025-05-02 at 18.59.51.png
    132.9 KB · Views: 36
  • Screenshot 2025-05-02 at 19.01.19.png
    Screenshot 2025-05-02 at 19.01.19.png
    38.2 KB · Views: 40
  • Screenshot 2025-05-02 at 19.01.35.png
    Screenshot 2025-05-02 at 19.01.35.png
    11.3 KB · Views: 36
Of course there is also the environmentalist pool players that don't want to waste wood.

I heard ebony is considered an endangered specie of wood.

Remember the good old days of a Tuxedo Cue? Ebony and Ivory baby! I use to have a Tuxedo cue. It never shot as well as I thought it would. Its just the feel.

Make Tuxedo Cues Great Again.
 
billiards_watch said:
I can play with both. One or the other doesn't make me shoot any different.

Its advantage over wood is for beginners. There is point & shoot aiming and there is deflection aiming. Carbon has eliminated #2.

I've been playing since I was 16 so I have already learned both and pretty damn good at it. It won't do anything for me.

I've mentioned it before. Its advantageous for new players to start with carbon. It cuts the learning curve in half.
Click to expand...
CF advantage is for everyone. no need to buy product to take care of it, don't need to worry about dings and warpage.
 
skor said:
Bingo
So when side spin is applied, the shaft is thrown to the side. It's a good thing that it's flexible; otherwise, it might break....
Click to expand...
Even “Hulk” from Marvel Comic character movies would be seriously challenged to break a wood shaft.

As long as the cue ball moves and is not permanently affixed and stationary incapable of moving, like it
glued and frozen to the table rails, then maybe the Hulk could get the shaft to crack or fracture. The shaft
ferrule would more like fracture, crack and break before the shaft did. The physics of pool involves science.
Science involves facts. What you are suggesting is science fiction which leads to some entertaining posts.
 
billiards_watch said:
It's not for suckers and I've classified them with carbon shafts. Perhaps I need to separate the two.

I don't like the hit of CF shafts because it feels dead to me and this type of process wood is officially killing the shaft.

I see wood shafts as a living/breathing thing. It changes and adapts over time. Sticking it in a kiln and sucking all the moisture out of it is the final nail in the coffin. It plays dead to me but there are remnants of a wood feel. It's not completely artificial like a carbon shaft.
Click to expand...

The first CF shaft I hit with felt amazingly like a good wooden shaft. It is possible to make a nice hitting CF shaft. That isn't to say they all hit great and with some "life" to them, just that it isn't impossible. Unfortunately that is still my favorite CF shaft and it wouldn't fit my cue if I could talk the owner out of it. A 12.4 was ordered and an 11.8 came before the company released any officially so I have to suspect it was a prototype. I have no idea if the production 11.8 feels the same or not.

I suspect synthetic will take over from wood just because of the way other sports and games have went. Not something I look forward to or fear. I wish someone could develop a perfect synthetic tip to match. It would be nice to be able to order a tip with a certain narrow hardness range and get what you order, top to bottom.


Bavafongoul said:
The shaft
ferrule would more like fracture, crack and break before the shaft did. The physics of pool involves science.
Science involves facts. What you are suggesting is science fiction which leads to some entertaining posts.
Click to expand...

I saw my brother give a gentle tap to roll a ball a few feet and my favorite roughly 13mm shaft broke less than an inch behind the maybe one inch ferrule. snapped cleanly and the broken piece lay on the table. Never seen it happen before or since. I know that shaft wasn't suffering from past abuse, I was normally the only one that touched it. I didn't break with it, I didn't use it to roll balls down to the foot of the table with, it was treated like the wonderful weapon it was. No signs of prior damage so I have to assume an invisible flaw in the wood or just the phase of the moon!

Hu
 
Not saying it didn’t occur but I have to witness that to believe it. A gentle tap should never break a wood shaft unless the shaft was already badly compromised and about to snap for reasons other than a gentle tapping of the cue ball. It might have happened since you wrote witnessing it. I just find your recital incredulous to even imagine and so I have to wonder if it did.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top