Kevin Trudeau on NYT's Sunday front page: Coincidience?

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Railbird
Kevin Trudeau on NYT's Sunday front page: Coincidence?

After Jail and More, Salesman Scores Big With Cure-All Book

By MELANIE WARNER
Published: August 28, 2005

28tru.184.jpg


When Carol Boruk of La Marque, Tex., saw Kevin Trudeau selling his book on a late-night infomercial last November, she was mesmerized.

Mr. Trudeau was good-looking, energetic and articulate, and talked about nonpharmaceutical remedies that could eradicate virtually any disease - and that he said were being suppressed by the government and the drug industry.

Ms. Boruk, who suffered from allergies and recurring headaches, called the number on the screen and happily forked over $30 for a copy.

So have millions of others. In the last three weeks, the updated and expanded version of "Natural Cures 'They' Don't Want You to Know About," which Mr. Trudeau self-published, has been outsold only by "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince," according to Nielsen Book-Scan.

The book has been on the New York Times list of best-selling how-to and advice books for eight weeks and is currently No. 1. Mr. Trudeau's publishing company says it has sold roughly three million copies since last August.

The book, 570 pages of Mr. Trudeau's musings on how natural therapies, diet and lifestyle can help people free themselves from illness and disease, has quickly become an unusual success story in the publishing business.

"It's a remarkable case," said John Oakes, a vice president at Avalon Publishing Group. "People who don't have the marketing muscle of a big publisher behind them don't usually rocket to the top of the sales list like this."

There are other unusual things about the book's success. Mr. Trudeau, 42, a publishing novice, is not a doctor or scientist, and has had some run-ins with the law.

In the early 90's, he served two years in federal prison for credit-card fraud. He was later sued by the Illinois attorney general over an alleged pyramid marketing scheme, and he has tangled twice with the Federal Trade Commission over claims that he made in infomercials for various alternative remedies.

Last year, the commission barred him from selling products through infomercials. "Natural Cures" was able to skirt that rule because books are protected as free speech under the First Amendment, a lawyer for the agency said.

Some of the book's assertions have prompted some readers to declare it a fraud. "Nothing more than a latter-day snake oil salesman," one reader, D. Bellini of Grand Rapids, Mich., posted on Amazon.com. Another reader called it "the worst rip-off I have gotten sucked into."

Officials at the New York State Consumer Protection Board also did not like the book. In early August the board issued a statement warning that "Natural Cures" is full of "empty promises."

"This book is exploiting and misleading people who are searching for cures to serious illnesses," Teresa A. Santiago, the board's chairwoman, said in the statement. "What they discover is page after page of pure speculation."

The board points out that in the book Mr. Trudeau directs readers to his subscription-based Web site, naturalcures.com, for more information. On the site they are offered subscriptions for $9.95 a month or $499 for life.

Ms. Boruk, the allergy sufferer in Texas, said the book was not entirely what she was expecting, but she found it "eye-opening" and said it had inspired her to stop taking several medications and make significant changes to her diet. "I've lost 30 pounds, never get headaches anymore and hardly notice my allergies," she said.

Mr. Trudeau says those who would call him a fraud misunderstand him. In a telephone interview, he said that he was preaching a holistic gospel he firmly believed in. He said that he eats mostly organic and natural food, never takes drugs, travels with a shower filter to strip the chlorine and fluoride from water and recently completed a seven-day fast to purge toxins.

"I can't remember the last time I was sick," he said, speaking after just returning from what he said was a 14-mile hike.

He noted that lawsuits filed by the trade commission and by Illinois had been settled out of court, and had not involved any findings of wrongdoing. He called the prison time stemming from activities in his mid-20's a "youthful mistake."

"I changed my priority from making money to positively impacting people," said Mr. Trudeau, who lives in Ojai, Calif., a small town popular with Hollywood producers and writers. His main base of operations is Chicago, where he runs half a dozen businesses related to his book and Web site.

Mr. Trudeau has amassed millions from producing infomercials and from direct sales of products. Promotional materials he used in the mid-90's boasted of a net worth of more than $200 million. Today, Mr. Trudeau says he does not know how much money he has, but it is "probably a lot."

He said he owns 10 cars and dozens of houses and condominiums around the world. Sam Catanese, president of Infomercial Monitoring Service, an infomercial research and tracking firm, said Mr. Trudeau, who is unmarried, was usually in the company of beautiful women. Mr. Trudeau said he is now engaged.

Former partners and associates said Mr. Trudeau has been successful because of his sales skills. "There's no doubt in my mind that he could sell anything," said David Bertrand, who worked with Mr. Trudeau from 1995 to 1997 at Nutrition for Life, a seller of vitamin and nutritional supplements. "He's a marketing genius."

Mr. Trudeau has been honing his marketing skills since he was in high school in the former mill town of Lynn, Mass. He started when he was 15 with a mail-order business on how to obtain loans. Mr. Trudeau said the operation had close to $1 million in sales.

After high school, while working at a car dealership, Mr. Trudeau said he met the owner of a company called Memory Masters Institute. He said he loved how the program sharpened his mind. When Memory Masters offered him a job in Chicago, he jumped.

During that period, he falsified credit-card applications, charged a total of $122,000 and landed in prison.

When he was released, Mr. Trudeau struck up a business partnership with his former cellmate, Jules Lieb. He and Mr. Lieb, who had been imprisoned for conspiracy to distribute cocaine, started working for Nutrition for Life. The two, through their company Trudeau Marketing Group, sold nutritional supplements and skin care products and recruited other distributors.

Mr. Bertrand said Mr. Trudeau, then 32, was by far the most successful distributor the company ever had. In the first year of Mr. Trudeau's alliance with Nutrition for Life, sales more than doubled.

Mr. Bertrand said Mr. Trudeau was also gutsy - sometimes too gutsy. "He was always a bit more aggressive than we would have liked," said Mr. Bertrand, now president of a similar nutritional supplements company called Vitamark International. "He started doing things we were not happy with." Mr. Trudeau would, for instance, make overly optimistic promises to new recruits about their future income, Mr. Bertrand said.

Mr. Trudeau says he told recruits what other people had earned in the past but did not offer them any guarantees.

Lawyers in the Illinois attorney general's office were not happy with what they were seeing. In its lawsuit against Trudeau Marketing Group, the office alleged that Mr. Trudeau and Mr. Lieb were operating a pyramid scheme.

Mr. Trudeau maintains that his work for Nutrition for Life, which was not named in the suit, was a legal marketing strategy, no different from Amway. In the settlement, Mr. Trudeau paid $10,000.

Darrell Stoddard, who worked with Mr. Trudeau in 2003, also said Mr. Trudeau's tendency to exaggerate caused trouble. Mr. Stoddard, who created a pain treatment called Biotape, said he hired Mr. Trudeau to create an infomercial for the product, a patented membrane that looks a bit like electrical tape. Mr. Stoddard, trained in Chinese medicine, believes that pain is caused by broken electrical connections between cells, and that Biotape can help with this.

In the infomercial, Mr. Trudeau said Biotape permanently relieved pain, a claim that made Mr. Stoddard cringe. "I knew we were going to get into trouble," said Mr. Stoddard. "You can't know that the pain will be gone forever."

In June 2004, the F.T.C. began court proceedings against Mr. Stoddard and his company, Smart Inventions, on a charge of making false claims. The action is pending. Mr. Trudeau says he did not make that claim about Biotape.

Critics contend Mr. Trudeau's book is also misleading. The New York Consumer Protection Board noted earlier this month that Herbert Ley, who is quoted in a promotional blurb, never read the book - he died in 2001. Mr. Ley, a commissioner for the Food and Drug Administration in the 1960's, made the quoted comment in the 1970's, and his name is misspelled on the book jacket.

Many alternative medicine experts agree with the core principles in "Natural Cures." But they too say Mr. Trudeau stretches the facts.

"There's enough truth in what he's saying that it gives him credibility with people who are looking for answers," said Dr. Dean Ornish, founder of the Preventive Medicine Research Institute in Sausalito, Calif., and a clinical professor of medicine at the University of California at San Francisco. "But a lot of what he says is either nonsense or not proven through credible means."

Dr. Sidney Wolfe, director of health research at Public Citizen, an advocacy group often critical of drug companies, said one problem with the book is that it has no references or index, which would help others to verify its claims. Mr. Trudeau said that inclusion would have made the already lengthy book too long. :D

Dr. Ornish said the text is peppered with unexplained assertions; for example: "A hospital in Mexico has virtually 100 percent success rate in eliminating cancer in a matter of weeks by giving intravenous ozone and hydrogen peroxide."

"Don't you think," asked Dr. Ornish, "that if there was a hospital that was curing cancer, we would have heard about it?"


Some, though, do not care about clinical trials or the judgment of the medical establishment. "I am so grateful I read this book," said Ms. Boruk, the allergy and headache sufferer. "It's changed my life."



http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/28/b...=1125288000&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print
 
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I'm a bit surprised that I just found his infomercial playing on TV right now! I thought he was banned from advertizing his "Natural Cures" on any media by the FTC!

Don't get me wrong, I still haven't made up my mind on his pool venture. I'm trying to be open minded and optomistic. My only complaint was that his "chosen one" wasn't someone more deserving. I respect his pool talent but that's as far as my respect goes.

just more hot air!

Sherm
 
Don King murdered a guy and is as flamboyant and crazy as they come but it would be hard to deny he has made boxing a more popular sport.

Who gives a shit if KT sells a book that flaunts natural cures that may or may not be completely bogus, Tom Cruise is shouting his scientology crap from the rooftops as well but noone is claiming that makes him a shitty actor, just a putz when it comes to science.

KT's book and the way he makes money has little to no bearing on whether the IPT will be successful or not. You can blaim the dumbass general public who buy his books and the countless other pieces of tripe on the news stands because they have no ability for self thought or anaysis. Chariots of the Gods is probably the best selling book about the Mayans. Problem is it is about their connection to aliens and the fact that aliens visited them and the Egyptians thousands of years ago. Complete bullshit, but your average chimp brained person on the street eats this shit up and actually thinks if it is printed on a piece of paper it must be true. The poor old lady should chalk her $30 loss as a life lesson that actually learning somthing and not following something blindly is maybe a good thing. Critical thought is lost on most of the population of this world and it makes the hustlers and con men of the world rejoice. Of all the sports that KT could help out with his hard earned cons it may as well be this one, he is one of our own.

At the end of the day he sure as hell cannot hurt this sport, if the IPT crashed and burned right now and never went off but for the challenge match we would be out nothing and at least got to see Sigel can still pocket a ball or two and that LJJ retired at the right time.
 
The book is great, has some good info and he makes no claims of any cancer cures, only has his suggestions just like Dr. Weil who has many of the same claims about water, microwaves etc..and Weil runs a web site that sells his own formulas and products which is a red flag. Kevin doesn't sell cures or formulas or vitamins. What about the guys that recommend hanging crystals or a triangle over your head and totally get away with it.

The way some make it sound, I guess if a guy writes a book to go jump off a bridge the bridges would be crowded with jumpers:D

I look into things or do some reading/research on my own, I don't just run out, fall for the latest drug or accept what my doctor says and then bitch when I get some freak side effect. I don't buy some miracle cure, cleaner or gadget that doesn't work then call the local consumer advocate or cry to my government to take care of me. People have to use some brains, buyer beware. I want choices, not a government to tell me what to buy.

If anyone stops taking a critical drug keeping them alive on the word of one person or starts taking a drug because a doctor recommends it, and you don't look into the side effects or weigh the risk's, it's your own fault.

People that complain about this guy sound like a bunch of babys who want everything safe and be told by a government who to trust or not to, that's just as bad or worse than trusting a pitchman or salesman....it's just crazy.

One of the main reason he has more pressure on him then others is he has balls to go after the FDA or drug companies. Who are far from perfect themselves, they pass drugs and have drugs pulled all the time that kill or make people seriously ill. Whose watching the watchers:D

Anyway, it will have little effect on pool or the IPT, I think this article was kinda favorable.

I hope he sells a million more books:D
 
SlimShafty said:
The way some make it sound, I guess if a guy writes a book to go jump off a bridge the bridges would be crowded with jumpers:D


You could make a claim "People who have followed the advice of this book and have jumped from a tall bridge over a waterless canyon have never died from Cancer or Heart Disease!, 100% success rate, money back guarentee!"
 
It is amazing how some people would embrace a crook just because he's handing out money in support of their sport. The guy's a crook. Face it. The claims in his book, though some may be true, are largely bogus. He isn't the first one to make similar claims about the FDA or natural cures and he won't be the last one. He's a scum bag who takes advantage of people in dire needs of hope and he profits handsomely from it. It's dirty money, just like the money drug dealers get. Ever since he decided to finance the IPT, some people are quick to label him as a saint or overlook the dispicable things he's done.

What he has done has no bearing on IPT (though the money he's handing out probably came from his dirty money stash). I hope IPT succeeds because the pool community needs it and the pros need it. But don't put this guy on the pedestal and sing his praises just because he's throwing money around.
 
DON F'ng KING!

DON F'ng KING! He's broken and cheated more men than you need to know. Don't be ignorant. He didn't make boxing. He exploited the public and then cheated his boxers. Fighters had to give over at least a piece of his future just for him to give them a title shot. This way he always had "control" of the belt.
donkingap.jpg

Ali, Frazer, Holmes, Tyson and many more lost millions.
http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/don king sues espn for billions

This is strictly my opinion and I can't justify it. Sigeal got much less than the 150K for a piece of the IPT action. Before anybody starts with the membership...forget it. There is more money in controlling this than one can imagine.

Just My Opinion

Nick B

at one of his
Celtic said:
Don King murdered a guy and is as flamboyant and crazy as they come but it would be hard to deny he has made boxing a more popular sport.

Who gives a shit if KT sells a book that flaunts natural cures that may or may not be completely bogus, Tom Cruise is shouting his scientology crap from the rooftops as well but noone is claiming that makes him a shitty actor, just a putz when it comes to science.

KT's book and the way he makes money has little to no bearing on whether the IPT will be successful or not. You can blaim the dumbass general public who buy his books and the countless other pieces of tripe on the news stands because they have no ability for self thought or anaysis. Chariots of the Gods is probably the best selling book about the Mayans. Problem is it is about their connection to aliens and the fact that aliens visited them and the Egyptians thousands of years ago. Complete bullshit, but your average chimp brained person on the street eats this shit up and actually thinks if it is printed on a piece of paper it must be true. The poor old lady should chalk her $30 loss as a life lesson that actually learning somthing and not following something blindly is maybe a good thing. Critical thought is lost on most of the population of this world and it makes the hustlers and con men of the world rejoice. Of all the sports that KT could help out with his hard earned cons it may as well be this one, he is one of our own.

At the end of the day he sure as hell cannot hurt this sport, if the IPT crashed and burned right now and never went off but for the challenge match we would be out nothing and at least got to see Sigel can still pocket a ball or two and that LJJ retired at the right time.
 
I have read with interest many, many, many, many, many IPT and/or Kevin Trudeau threads, with both positive and negative opinions. It is incredulous, to me at least, that folks are so quick to jump on the band wagon to criticize this new and exciting venture which most definitely will affect me and mine -- at least I hope so.

In the history of pool, NOBODY that I know of has been provided the opportunity to play for $200,000 or $300,000 as a first-place prize. For some pool players, this would provide financial security, something that is sorely lacking in the game/sport.

EVERYBODY knows how expensive it is to attend tournaments, and in the scheme of things, one must come in third or fourth place to just BREAK EVEN. With the advent of the IPT, this could change the lives of some pool players and ultimately infuse a game/sport which to date has very little reward in the way of monies.

Although I have refrained from responding to the multitude of posts, I must say that the MAJORITY of responders are not FULL-TIME pool players. Yet, they have very strong opinions about the success of the IPT Tour and Kevin Trudeau, even though most do not shoot pool for a living.

I say bring it on, the IPT and Kevin Trudeau. If you were to do a survey of EXISTING pool players who play pool full time and have no other means of income, the results of those in favor of the IPT and Kevin Trudeau would more than likely be close to 100 percent, if not 100 percent. Every single pool player I have spoken to is in favor of this, and they said they would practice every single day for an opportunity to bring their best game to the table and receive a DECENT prize for their efforts.

Pool players are starving, and if Kevin Trudeau is going to put his monies into the game/sport, I applaud him for his efforts and look forward to seeing some lucky player reap the rewards for his/her years of devotion to their trade. The only thing I have seen to date is organizations making the big bucks, to include the staff running the organizations, and the pool players are at the bottom of the heap. While the staff of the BCA enjoy six-figure salaries, pool players are lucky if they can have a five-figure salary per annum after all of the associated expenses. Most players are sick and tired of posting up $1,500 to $2,500 to win 7- to $10,000 as a first-place prize.

Bring it on, Kevin Trudeau. I can't wait to see what the threads will be after the first pool player wins a cool $200,000 in Orlando, Florida, this coming September. :p

JMHO, FWIW!

JAM
 
JAM said:
I have read with interest many, many, many, many, many IPT and/or Kevin Trudeau threads, with both positive and negative opinions. It is incredulous, to me at least, that folks are so quick to jump on the band wagon to criticize this new and exciting venture which most definitely will affect me and mine -- at least I hope so.

In the history of pool, NOBODY that I know of has been provided the opportunity to play for $200,000 or $300,000 as a first-place prize. For some pool players, this would provide financial security, something that is sorely lacking in the game/sport.

EVERYBODY knows how expensive it is to attend tournaments, and in the scheme of things, one must come in third or fourth place to just BREAK EVEN. With the advent of the IPT, this could change the lives of some pool players and ultimately infuse a game/sport which to date has very little reward in the way of monies.

Although I have refrained from responding to the multitude of posts, I must say that the MAJORITY of responders are not FULL-TIME pool players. Yet, they have very strong opinions about the success of the IPT Tour and Kevin Trudeau, even though most do not shoot pool for a living.

I say bring it on, the IPT and Kevin Trudeau. If you were to do a survey of EXISTING pool players who play pool full time and have no other means of income, the results of those in favor of the IPT and Kevin Trudeau would more than likely be close to 100 percent, if not 100 percent. Every single pool player I have spoken to is in favor of this, and they said they would practice every single day for an opportunity to bring their best game to the table and receive a DECENT prize for their efforts.

Pool players are starving, and if Kevin Trudeau is going to put his monies into the game/sport, I applaud him for his efforts and look forward to seeing some lucky player reap the rewards for his/her years of devotion to their trade. The only thing I have seen to date is organizations making the big bucks, to include the staff running the organizations, and the pool players are at the bottom of the heap. While the staff of the BCA enjoy six-figure salaries, pool players are lucky if they can have a five-figure salary per annum after all of the associated expenses. Most players are sick and tired of posting up $1,500 to $2,500 to win 7- to $10,000 as a first-place prize.

Bring it on, Kevin Trudeau. I can't wait to see what the threads will be after the first pool player wins a cool $200,000 in Orlando, Florida, this coming September. :p

JMHO, FWIW!

JAM

Well said JAM, as usual.
 
JAM said:
Although I have refrained from responding to the multitude of posts, I must say that the MAJORITY of responders are not FULL-TIME pool players. Yet, they have very strong opinions about the success of the IPT Tour and Kevin Trudeau, even though most do not shoot pool for a living.

I've made this case before, and, sadly, will have to make it again.

The suggestion that pro players are the only ones with a stake in the success fo the IPT is not reasonable. If pool as a sport becomes associated with a scam, a concern that even some players prepared to roll the dice on the IPT have expressed to me, isn't it just possible it will reenforce the image of poolplayers as being inclined to sacrifice their integrity for a buck? Isn't it possible it could lessen pro pool's access to sponsor dollars? Isn't it possible it will reenforce the views of parents who don't want their kids to play pool? Isn't it possible that those who've traditionally been willing to contribute time and money to pro pool would be less inclined to do so if their assemssment of the sport's integrity declines.

Perhaps the venture will go well, and pool's ship is coming in. That's what we're all hoping for.

As a man that has a) risked tens of thousands sponsoring pro players over the years, b) served pro pool in unpaid administrative capacities, and c) spent a few thousand dollars annually as a fan of pool for many years, I am both shocked and insulted by your implication that only the pro players need concern themselves with the merits of the IPT, and that others should but out.

Everyone who cares about pro pool and about pool in general has a large stake in this. That's why the subject has been debated with such passion on the forum. Of course, if you think that those who would invest in pro pool and those who would spend money as fans of the game don't matter, you hardly stand alone. Mens' pro pool's recent history offers ample evidence that the players could care less about what matters to its fans and benefactors.

Respectfully, SJM
 
I am taking a devil`s advocate position on this matter.Mr.trudeaux is NOT required legally or morally to take approval from anybody for his venture in pool.He is not awnserable to any pool players or pool fans.He can do what he wants to do with his venture.He can call it whatever he wants to call it-world championships or intergalactic championships or international championships.
Vagabond
 
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although I usualy agree with you Jam, this time I realy disagree.

It is a bit difficult to explain for me in English but I will do my best. First I like to state that I know Alex Lely and Niels Feijen. They played for the club I started with some friends and I was one of the organisers of the European Championships and I am now coach of the Dutch youth.

From the players side it is simple. Don't care who organizes the tournament if there are big bucks then they are there. They don't mind him being a crook or a saint.

But the organizers in the world are not so happy with it. First of all KT made a schedule and didn't care about the rest of the world. F**k it, I organize it when I want and the rest must adjust to me.

Then the prize money is to high. There is a big gap to the tournaments that are here for centuries. They go up every year and do their best to set the prize money as high as possible. They worked hard all these years to establish a staus like the US Open or the WPC or all those others. They are now degrated to second place tournaments that must adjust to KT.

This organisation is not sanctioned by the WPA wich means the are not giving any money to pool in general. This money is used to organise the WPC for youth and the WPC 8-ball and many many other things. KT say's F**k pool I don't care about anything else then my money and my tournament.

Then pool is known for the gambling hustling dark sport and many many people do their best to get it were it should be among the biggest sports in the world and with an olympic status. Now this scum organizes a pool tournament and the people knows KT for all his law suids and jail time. not so nice to have that person so related with the sport pool.

TK starts his tour with a stupid match and gives it a strange name. It's a publicity stunt and it was done several times. You ask 2 players if they would join and give them 5000$. You make a big advertisment that says the match is for 1.000.000$ and put on a big show. The players act along and you have a cheap but succesfull advertisment for your tour.

Changing the rules to a sport just because you have money is ridicules (although the players don't mind as long as there is 200.000$ first prize). What if I organize a tennis tournament with all the big players and the biggest prize fund ever. The rules are to make the game more intresting (although I have never played it). You play on a smaller fiels and we put the net up 10 inces. We no longer use time outs and we count from 1 till 20 for a set. I mean WHY change the rules of the sport?? Because you got money?

Changing the entre fee from 899 to 1 dollar is a good start and hopefully he will have more before the first tournament. I hope he can make everything true but he started with a false start, but maybe he makes everything he has said true.........At this moment lots of people have second thoughts about KT and his plans.

Alex Lely is the current 8-ball European Champion and he is looking foreward to the tournaments by KT and Niels Feijen was already asked for the tour.

my 2 cents..
 
I don't trust this guy. He has a history of lying to get what he wants and everyone is going to believe him now. He takes advantage of desperate people and the pool community seems pretty desperate from where I sit.
 
sjm said:
I've made this case before, and, sadly, will have to make it again.

I read your case then, SJM, but I'm happy to read it once more! :)

sjm said:
The suggestion that pro players are the only ones with a stake in the success fo the IPT is not reasonable.

That may be, SJM, but while you're enjoying life as you know it, there is a dwindling lot of pool players continuing to struggle in a game/sport that offers very little in the way of financial benefit. Tin cups are great, but they don't provide a legitimate means of income.

sjm said:
If pool as a sport becomes associated with a scam, a concern that even some players prepared to roll the dice on the IPT have expressed to me, isn't it just possible it will reenforce the image of poolplayers as being inclined to sacrifice their integrity for a buck?

I'm not sure which pool players you've talked to about rolling the dice on the IPT, but every single one I have spoken to is all for it.

sjm said:
Isn't it possible it could lessen pro pool's access to sponsor dollars? Isn't it possible it will reenforce the views of parents who don't want their kids to play pool? Isn't it possible that those who've traditionally been willing to contribute time and money to pro pool would be less inclined to do so if their assemssment of the sport's integrity declines.

Nobody seems to give a rat's ass about pool player survivability. Most of the full-time players travel like vagabonds -- no pun intended, Vagabond ;) -- and in this pool world, the rich get richer and the pool players are becoming extinct, with the exception of those at the helm of the organizational entities who continue to be the only receiving financial gain.

There is no transparency within the mens' governing body of professional pool, and there's not much to look forward to for an aspiring player or a seasoned veteran or a Hall of Famer except expending several thousand dollars each and every month, hoping to break even. Even when you win one big one, you're still stuck big time from the previous trips.

sjm said:
Perhaps the venture will go well, and pool's ship is coming in. That's what we're all hoping for.

It seems not everybody is hoping for it by the negative posts relating to it, IMO. It seems to me that the members of pool's own culture have abandoned the game/sport. When you look in the stands of the so-called pro and/or high-profile events, it's the players and their friends who make up the majority of the audience.

There is not much NEW interest in pool. Maybe, just maybe, an event which infuses millions of dollars into it will provide a little kickstart to a stagnating industry.

sjm said:
As a man that has a) risked tens of thousands sponsoring pro players over the years, b) served pro pool in unpaid administrative capacities, and c) spent a few thousand dollars annually as a fan of pool for many years, I am both shocked and insulted by your implication that only the pro players need concern themselves with the merits of the IPT, and that others should but out.

First and foremost, I think you're overreacting a wee bit, SJM. :p

Second, the tournament trail is expensive to keep up with, and I am excited at the prospect of a pool player competing for six-figure dollar amounts. One win would change a person's life. One win on the current tournament trail isn't enough to live on. It only gets you to the next event, if you're lucky.

sjm said:
Everyone who cares about pro pool and about pool in general has a large stake in this. That's why the subject has been debated with such passion on the forum. Of course, if you think that those who would invest in pro pool and those who would spend money as fans of the game don't matter, you hardly stand alone. Mens' pro pool's recent history offers ample evidence that the players could care less about what matters to its fans and benefactors. Respectfully, SJM

You may sign off respectfully, SJM, but your last comment stinks. Men's pool is what it is because nobody gives a damn about the players, especially those at the helm of the governing bodies and organizational entities. Male pool players in particular have seen organizations come and go which have stuck it to them big time, and GREED always wins out and NEVER the pool players themselves.

Pool players are people, SJM, with ambitions and desires in a pool world which offers very little hope. While some may like to pick and poke at male pool players as if they were Kling-ons on the Starship Enterprise, it might be helpful to just reflect a bit on what it is like to walk in the shoes of pool players who have devoted their entire life to this wonderful world of pocket billiards. And the new kids on the block are leaving just as quick as they got into the game/sport. I think we all know the reason why.

Bring it on, Kevin Trudeau, and thanks for taking a shot into this game/sport. Good luck to you and me and mine!

JAM
 
berry said:
although I usualy agree with you Jam, this time I realy disagree.

I'm always open to reading differing opinions and views from others, especially from our European counterparts! :)

berry said:
It is a bit difficult to explain for me in English but I will do my best. First I like to state that I know Alex Lely and Niels Feijen. They played for the club I started with some friends and I was one of the organisers of the European Championships and I am now coach of the Dutch youth.

Great going, Berry. You are one of the rare breeds who selfishly gives back!

berry said:
Then the prize money is to high. There is a big gap to the tournaments that are here for centuries. They go up every year and do their best to set the prize money as high as possible. They worked hard all these years to establish a staus like the US Open or the WPC or all those others. They are now degrated to second place tournaments that must adjust to KT.
If there is a product which is more desirable and at a lesser cost, most folks go for it. It's the American way, fortunately or unfortunately, Berry.

Pool enjoys the same payouts as they did in 30 and 40 years ago. Most professions have had a cost-of-living raise, but in the case of pool, it's gone backwards.

Thirty or 40 years ago, a DECENT hotel room may have cost $29 per night. Today, you're lucky to get a decent one for $100, and it's a non-entity in New York City, the place where some like to host pool tournaments. Gasoline used to cost 30 cents per gallon in the '70s. Today in the U.S., it's 3 bucks a gallon currently and rising. Pool players need to make a decent wage.

Thirty or 40 years ago, a first-place prize of $10,000 sure did go a lot further than $10,000 does on TODAY's tournament trail. $10,000 might keep a pool player traveling for several months until it's all eaten up by expenses.

berry said:
This organisation is not sanctioned by the WPA wich means the are not giving any money to pool in general. This money is used to organise the WPC for youth and the WPC 8-ball and many many other things. KT say's F**k pool I don't care about anything else then my money and my tournament.

I don't think "KT" said that at all. I think the man is trying to make something happen, and God bless him for doing so. If he's willing to fork out $5 million-plus into pool, my counterpart will be standing in line hoping to take a shot. You can be sure to see a different level of play when a pool player is shooting for these kinds of monies. Make no mistake about it.

Should pool players continue to struggle and live beneath the poverty level because the WPA hasn't sanctioned an IPT event? I would be interested, though, Berry, to learn what strides and improvements the WPA has made in the history of its existence as it pertains to professional pool players making a living in the game/sport. In particular, what has it offered to American pool players? I truly would like to learn more.

berry said:
Then pool is known for the gambling hustling dark sport and many many people do their best to get it were it should be among the biggest sports in the world and with an olympic status. Now this scum organizes a pool tournament and the people knows KT for all his law suids and jail time. not so nice to have that person so related with the sport pool.
If Kevin Trudeau is willing infuse the sport/game here in the U.S., the doors will be OPEN to players from around the world. Labeling Kevin Trudeau as "scum" for only wanting to organize a pool tour consisting of 8-ball on slow cloth is kind of brutal, ain't it, Berry?

berry said:
TK starts his tour with a stupid match and gives it a strange name. It's a publicity stunt and it was done several times. You ask 2 players if they would join and give them 5000$. You make a big advertisment that says the match is for 1.000.000$ and put on a big show. The players act along and you have a cheap but succesfull advertisment for your tour.
Well, at least it's bringing recognition to the sport/game, and I'm kind of glad he decided to risk his monies by hosting the Sigel-versus-Jones match. Good advertisement strategy, and he's willing to expend his bucks to make it happen. Can you name somebody else, another entity, who has invested these kinds of monies into pool? I sure can't, but I could name a few who have received BIG BUCKS while maintaining organizational entities, while its members continue to live below the poverty line.

berry said:
Alex Lely is the current 8-ball European Champion and he is looking foreward to the tournaments by KT and Niels Feijen was already asked for the tour.

Congratulations to Alex and Niels. :)

I remember asking Niels earlier this year if he was going to make the BCA Open in Vegas. He stated quite matter of factly that the trip was just too costly considering what he would have to expend to get there. Even winning $42,500 in the Skins Billiard Championship last November, one of the biggest purses in recent times, ask Niels what he took home after his sponsor and Uncle Sam were compensated.

Maybe playing for 200,000 bucks would change Niels' life for the better while he is at the peak of his career. I wish him and Alex good luck and hope they do well.

I'm certainly not going to continue to debate this as rigorous as some others on this forum, but the way I see it, Kevin Trudeau and his $5 million is just what the doctor ordered in the game/sport. Bring it on!

JAM
 
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JAM said:
I read your case then, SJM, but I'm happy to read it once more! :)

Well, JAM, we don't see eye to eye, and that's OK, as this is all a matter of opinion. Still, I'm grateful for the time you spent replying to my post. I always have and always will value and respect your opinions on the forum.

Still, contrary to your suggestion, I do know what it's like to be in a pro pool player's shoes. As somebody who sponsored a top pro for years, I saw the lifestyle and the economnics up close. I went to about half of the that player's events and saw the scene up close. I do know how tough it is for a top pro to hang on and make ends meet. I sponsored players for all the right reasons, and not with the expectation of profit, so I do understand. I'm a big spender when it comes to pool, and I always will be. At the Big Apple 9-ball Challenge, one of the players offered me their guest pass, and I declined it, noting that I'd rather spend the money and support the pro game. Despite the suggested contribution of $25, I contributed $200 to the "Send an AZB player to the Open" campaign. I also give very generously of my time when it comes to the pro game. I admire you very much, too, as you also support the game by giving so generously of your time and money.

What we do agree on, JAM, is that the IPT is a shot the players should take, and here's wishing them every success. I've spent forty years in the midst of pro pool and its players, and have always wanted to live to see the day when these highly skilled players made a big income at their trade. My fingers are crossed.

To sum, keep it coming, JAM, for your opinions and points of view are always well presented and worth considering.
 
I don't have a problem with IPT. I hope it succeeds. My only problem is that some people are willing to turn a blind eye to all the dirty things Trudeau has done just because he's throwing money around. According to some people, this guy's a saint and should be praised for selling fake hope to desperate people.

Nevertheless, hope the players can make the IPT work.
 
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