kicking systems

PKM

PKM

OB-1 Kenobi
Silver Member
I'm sure this has been discussed many times, but I'm attempting to learn some kicking systems, and am a bit overwhelmed at the moment. I've seen slight variations on the corner-5 three-rail system and the one-rail Sid system. For people who use these systems and play on different tables, do you try to calibrate the table before you play?

Then I read Robert Byrne who says, "When good nine-ball players are hooked and have to kick one or more rails to escape, they rely on judgment, not systems borrowed from the three-cushion world." (New Standard Book, p. 176). I'm sure some would disagree, and in any case my judgment is embarrassingly inadequate. He then goes on to explain the "opposite three" system, which seems to be a variation on the corner-5 system. Help! I knew I should have taken up knitting instead.

Are there particular systems that people swear by?

(I have DeadAim's Kicking Academy posts, it might take me a few years to get through)
 
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When I was at Tom Simpson's clinic he showed me a two rail kicking system that worked like magic, at first I was sure I would be able to remember it so I just toyed with it for awhile and then went on to do other stuff, now I can't remember exactly what to do and I kick myself daily for not writing it down. :(
 
Systems are good for a start. Get The Beard's book. It will explain a lot. Practice the stuff in his book. Get a feel for it. After that use your best judgment.
 
I think Robert Byrne's book is way out touch with the way pool is played right now.

First, most of the systems are based on geometry that is mathmatically irrefutable. Secondly, while many players probably did rely on judgement I can say that many have now learned some systems that they have ingrained to the point where they "see" the right lines.

I use one called the mirror system for one rail kicks that never ceases to amaze people who don't know it. You bascially take the distance from the object ball to the rail edge and double that out off the table and aim at that place.

Jimmy Reid showed me this years ago, with a way to measure it usig the cuestick and find an aiming line on the rail. I have since figured out a way to find the line by standing behind the cueball that is a little less precise but still works 95% of the time to achieve the hit I want.

I can testify that if I had stuck to the advice in Byrne's book then I would be much less of a player today and would have lost a lot more money due to missing what are now easy kick shots for me.

Seriously, banking and kicking systems are the DEAD NUTS. Don't believe me, just ask if ANYONE wants to match up with David Matlock on the barbox. David is a systems guru and will flat out amaze you with the stuff he can do using the systems he uses.

Tom Rossman "Dr Cue", has some dead easy ones that he teaches for banking and kicking.

These days there is a ton of good information on banking and kicking systems that work well. There is a ton of free information on the web if you dig for it.

On systems: You use them for everything you do. You are not born knowing how to write. You practice until it becomes second nature. You don't know how to eat properly so you are taught. In pool you don't know how to aim so you learn a system for that, you learn a system for stroking, and so on. Some people jsut aquire the very basics and make do (struggle) with that and others continue to study and find what works that they can absorb and make second nature.

No system is ever going to make the shot for you. Ultimately you have to pull the trigger and that moment is where all the preparation and calculation either come together perfectly melded with your instinct and nerve or it doesn't. Failure doesn't mean the system is flawed, although it might be, it just means that the equation didn't work that time and it needs work. No system can account for damp tables, differing rail heights, cloth speed, weird lighting. But a person can make those adjustments instantly if they have a solid base to work from.

So my advice to anyone wanting to get better is to study the systems and practice them until you can't miss.
 
was it this one?

thrasher789 said:
When I was at Tom Simpson's clinic he showed me a two rail kicking system that worked like magic, at first I was sure I would be able to remember it so I just toyed with it for awhile and then went on to do other stuff, now I can't remember exactly what to do and I kick myself daily for not writing it down. :(
Click to expand...

The only simple 2 rail kicking system I know of, is to find the midpoint between the balls. Then take
a line from that point to the center of the corner. Then just move your cue over keeping it parallel, and
shoot the cue ball in that direction. The angle of the cue ball widens a little off the second rail though, so
for longer distances, aim a little more towards the corner. I read once, that about 2 degrees adjustment
for every foot the cue ball comes off the second rail before contact. It's described in a few places on the
web. I'm not sure if it's allowed to post a link. I saw Allison Fischer using her cue stick to do this in a
match on TV recently also.

Was this the system? I'm real curious...
 
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I have a friend who did ALL his home work on every possible banking/diamond counting system etc. he could find and it helped him alot, for example while playing 9-ball if he was trading saftys with someone he would be able to hit the object ball on the side he wanted to to hand over a hook shot to who he was playing, instead of just blasting the ball and hoping for a good roll. It really took his one pocket game up a level. personally I just go by feel, the longer I play the better I get at kicking and leaving the other guy hooked.
 
I have listened to some of Charlie Bryant's systems on banking and kicking and they are brilliant!

Charlie is in my opinion one of the best kicker in the US.

I know he is coming out with his book, and I would highly recommend it.

Richard
 
Wanna kick for dough?

If anyone is interested, there is a fool proof kicking system available for who ever wants it. Lil' Joe Villalpondo had a video done a short while ago that teaches 1-rail, 2-rail (side rail first), 2-rail (end rail first), 3-rail, and extended diamond for anything beyond 3 rails. If you can count to 10 and read the hour hand on a clock, you can't go wrong with his system. It tells you where to aim the shot and what english to use to get a "hit" and/or pocket the ball.

I have been using his system for several months now, and I stake my word on the fact that you will be able to at least hit if not make 1, 2, or 3 rail kick shots immediately after watching his DVD.

If you want to check it out, search here for "Joe Villalpondo" and you should find a couple more strings about his videos. Also, check out his web site at www.pooliq.net.

I believe one of the previous strings has a link to a youtube clip off the first DVD on kicks.

His system will have you shooting a calculated shot every time you step to the table with a kick shot waiting.
 
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iasaxman said:
Lil' Joe Villalpondo had a video done a short while ago that teaches 1-rail, 2-rail (side rail first), 2-rail (end rail first), 3-rail, and extended diamond for anything beyond 3 rails.
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Thanks, people seem to have good things to say about his DVD. Anyone have some info on what's covered in his other DVD on cue ball control? I'm wondering if I should pony up for the package deal.
 
PKM said:
Thanks, people seem to have good things to say about his DVD. Anyone have some info on what's covered in his other DVD on cue ball control? I'm wondering if I should pony up for the package deal.
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I just got it a few days ago, I haven't watched it yet, but I will make it a priority, and I'll let you know.

As far as the kicking video goes, it is a great video, lots of good effects! He shows you how even a 10 year old picked up his system superfast, and the ten year old executes some jam up kicks on film..

Russ
 
PKM said:
Thanks, people seem to have good things to say about his DVD. Anyone have some info on what's covered in his other DVD on cue ball control? I'm wondering if I should pony up for the package deal.
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His 2nd DVD focuses on Cue ball control after contacting the object ball (tangents). You'll learn how to manipulate the cue ball using the same "Clock" system as the kicks video. Along with many "set" shots to show you how to make 2nd balls or get breakouts, you'll learn how to utilize many variations of the system to suit your specific needs of any shot.

P.S. Joe's got a 3rd DVD in the works!!! I'm excited!!!
 
John Barton said:
These days there is a ton of good information on banking and kicking systems that work well. There is a ton of free information on the web if you dig for it.

On systems: You use them for everything you do. You are not born knowing how to write. You practice until it becomes second nature. You don't know how to eat properly so you are taught. In pool you don't know how to aim so you learn a system for that, you learn a system for stroking, and so on. Some people jsut aquire the very basics and make do (struggle) with that and others continue to study and find what works that they can absorb and make second nature.
Click to expand...

Well said! Tap, tap tap! :D ...and if someone wants the one-on-one experience, they can seek out instruction.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
I like the Monk 2 and 3 rail system. Easy to remember formula too. They are only for certain kicks, but they have got me out of a jam many times.
 
I have a taiwanese video on 1, 2 and 3 rails kick and manipulation that just about covers all the kicks on the table.

I am not going to say that it is fantastic or made me an incredible kicker or am i anywhere nearly Bustamante standard now.

But all i will say is that there is a really significant difference between having watch it and not knowing wat they know.

I think i have improved another notch in my game.
 
Pool IQ and Kicks

Lil Joe's DVDs will help you with all aspects of your game. His kicking system doesn't just show you how to hit a few certain kicks. It allows you to "calculate" the shot so that you will, with reasonable certainty, get a hit on the ball. Doesn't matter where the cue ball is or where the object ball is. He shows 1 rail, 2 rail(end rail first), 2 rail(side rail first), 3 rail, and extended diamond kicks. The extended diamond segment will teach you how to use extra rails to get to the 3 rail kick. My favorite is a dead-nuts 5 railer. I use it quite a bit in 9- ball when I'm stuck on the opposite end of the table but same side as the next ball in sequence without a clear line. I don't bother jumping down the rail or masse shots when this works everytime(at least a hit).

Check out his site, it'll give you an idea of what his videos cover and also allows you to order them directly from Joe.
 
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