Kielwood Shaft Search

[Bavafongoul]

I’ve been a member in Az for neatly 15 years. During that time, I conducted two exhaustive attempts to find a specific cue & a linen wrap. Both searches were in vain. I even tried offering what I considered was a substantial bounty for any referral that resulted in a purchase.

Well, I’m certainly not worse off than before and along the way, met some interesting people, made some new acquaintances and learned in the process that some things are just not meant to be so get over it & enjoy what you have. Now I’ve embarked on a new search attempt.

Since last October, after acquiring my first Kielwood shaft (Cory Barnhart), I’ve unsuccessfully tried to find another builder that could match the weight of the roasted maple shaft (RMS) Cory built. Personally, I didn’t think it’d be that difficult but apparently I was sadly mistaken.

Of course, things like diameter, collar size, taper, length, etc. affect the final weight but all things being equal, the KW shafts I’ve seen & tried aren’t that heavy running around 3.4 -3.6 ozs. Well, today a prominent cue builder contacted me & said it’s daunting but we’ll give it a shot.

Some of you may have seen my threads in the Wanted Forum and Ask The Cue Maker Forum. I have contacted a lot of brands of Kielwood shafts and cue makers asking if they could build a heavier version KW shaft like Cory built. Surprisingly, no one has stepped up to say Yup.

Recently, a couple of cue makers on Az let me know this is a KW shaft they think they can successfully build. As many readers know, shafts that are torrified are usually lighter afterward so buildung a 4 oz. KW shaft is difficult. I’m excited after months of searching it might happen.

I recognize that CF has a broad following but I’m stuck in my ways about wood shafts. I don’t wear a glove and I maintain my shafts using Renaissance Wax so they’re glossy smooth. I like the feel of wood in a closed bridge. It allows me to judge my stroke speed better than CF.

Anyway, I’ll keep this thread updated on my progress and how the shaft turns out. There’s always going to be naysayers but who cares? You should get what you want and never become tempted to settle because it’s inconvenient or harder than you originally imagined it would be.

 

[markjames]

substantial bounty for any referral that resulted in a purchase.

Richard Hsu has the highest fargo rate of any kielwood shaft maker.

 

[Bavafongoul]

Richard Hsu has the highest fargo rate of any kielwood shaft maker.

That’s great and he makes one of the prettiest, highest priced KW shafts that take 5 months to build.

Mr. Hsu also has the challenge of building a heavier KW shaft . One of his just sold on Az that was 30”
length & only weighed 3.59 ozs., almost a 1/2 oz. lighter than my requirements. The only shafts he’s made
that I’ve seen that approaches 4 ozs. are 13mm shafts that are piloted. My shaft is flat faced so there isn’t
a brass receiver that boosts the shaft’s weight and the diameter is 12.75mm. Richard also is challenged
to build the shaft I want made like other cue makers & shaft builders I contacted expressed hesitancy over.

A couple of cue makers active on Az have expressed confidence they can do this and contacted me but
nothing concrete has happened yet. SSDiver2112 built the prettiest curly wood KW shaft, nicer than any
Tsunami cue, IMO. He posted photos on a different thread of mine. Phelps Cues also is a contender and
seems to have command over what’s needed to build a shaft as heavy as I want. Yesterday, a prominent
cue maker stepped up and contacted me. They want to tackle this shaft & offered a money back guarantee
if I wasn’t satisfied with how the shaft turned out. Now that’s really expressing confidence they can build it.

Indeed, Tsunami KW shaft are the highest priced of any KW shaft and take as long as some cues to build.
However, my requirements challenge any cue maker. I started my search last November and communicated
with over a dozen builders that all declined. Probably another 1/2 dozen never even responded with a reply.
So when a top name cue maker responded yesterday & said they are willing to give it a try, I became excited.

I have a thread in the Ask The Cue Maker Forum that outlines this and the different responses and suggestions.
Richard Hsu is a highly touted name and for good reason too because he builds an amazing KW shaft. As I’ve
learned, building a KW shaft is different. But no cue maker has a patent of how to build a KW shaft and any
competent cue maker with the right equipment can build one. The challenge is building a heavier version I want.

Based on all the cue makers that I’ve communicated with, the trick is to have the right wood to start with or else
you have to add artificially add weight to the shaft with an insert or something else. I want a flat faced shaft that
consists of wood, ferrule and tip…..that’s it, I failed to locate the Joel Hercek cue I wanted and looked for years.
My search for white/black speck Cortland linen failed as well. However, up until now, this search was also in vain.

Thank you for the advice about Richard Hsu but I don’t want to pay that much for just a wood shaft and sure don’t
want to wait 20 or more weeks to get it. My Cory Barnhart RMS shaft, costing hundreds less, plays every bit as nice
as his 2.0 Tsunami shafts do. I played for an hour with my friend’s Tsunami shaft and he used my Barnhart RMS shaft.

I sure can’t justify the higher price based on how the two shafts play but the Tsunami was definitely more handsome.
In conclusion, I’m not buying a shaft because of the way it looks. The only thing that matters is how the shaft performs.
I know a player’s skills decides how well any cue or shaft ultimately performs. KW shafts are a step up in wood shafts.

 

[markjames]

That’s great and he makes one of the prettiest, highest priced KW shafts that take 5 months to build.

i feel confident that you’ll eventually find exactly what you are after

but remember

5 months-long time
100’s $$- very expensive

years upon years upon years
of searching and researching
and shopping around and
explaining and describing- longer time and more expensive

 

[sbrownn]

I recognize that CF has a broad following but I’m stuck in my ways about wood shafts. I don’t wear a glove and I maintain my shafts using Renaissance Wax so they’re glossy smooth. I like the feel of wood in a closed bridge. It allows me to judge my stroke speed better than CF.

Do you have any issues with your use of the Renaissance Wax collecting dirt or chalk dust in the case? Is this only for wood or can it be used on tightly tapped joint threads and pins?

 

[chuckpilegis]

How would you know if a builder try's to sneak some metal into your shaft to make it heavier. Unless you own an x-ray machine

 

[NevadaP]

I’ve been a member in Az for neatly 15 years. During that time, I conducted two exhaustive attempts to find a specific cue & a linen wrap. Both searches were in vain. I even tried offering what I considered was a substantial bounty for any referral that resulted in a purchase.

Well, I’m certainly not worse off than before and along the way, met some interesting people, made some new acquaintances and learned in the process that some things are just not meant to be so get over it & enjoy what you have. Now I’ve embarked on a new search attempt.

Since last October, after acquiring my first Kielwood shaft (Cory Barnhart), I’ve unsuccessfully tried to find another builder that could match the weight of the roasted maple shaft (RMS) Cory built. Personally, I didn’t think it’d be that difficult but apparently I was sadly mistaken.

Of course, things like diameter, collar size, taper, length, etc. affect the final weight but all things being equal, the KW shafts I’ve seen & tried aren’t that heavy running around 3.4 -3.6 ozs. Well, today a prominent cue builder contacted me & said it’s daunting but we’ll give it a shot.

Some of you may have seen my threads in the Wanted Forum and Ask The Cue Maker Forum. I have contacted a lot of brands of Kielwood shafts and cue makers asking if they could build a heavier version KW shaft like Cory built. Surprisingly, no one has stepped up to say Yup.

Recently, a couple of cue makers on Az let me know this is a KW shaft they think they can successfully build. As many readers know, shafts that are torrified are usually lighter afterward so buildung a 4 oz. KW shaft is difficult. I’m excited after months of searching it might happen.

I recognize that CF has a broad following but I’m stuck in my ways about wood shafts. I don’t wear a glove and I maintain my shafts using Renaissance Wax so they’re glossy smooth. I like the feel of wood in a closed bridge. It allows me to judge my stroke speed better than CF.

Anyway, I’ll keep this thread updated on my progress and how the shaft turns out. There’s always going to be naysayers but who cares? You should get what you want and never become tempted to settle because it’s inconvenient or harder than you originally imagined it would be.

John Chaplin of Coos Cues has an elaborate system for hitting target weight with his cues and shafts based on wood density, etc. I don't know if he'd be willing to take on your project, but I'm thinking he could probably pull it off if he was motivated to do so.

I have one of his kielwood shafts, and like it a lot.

 

[Bavafongoul]

Do you have any issues with your use of the Renaissance Wax collecting dirt or chalk dust in the case? Is this only for wood or can it be used on tightly tapped joint threads and pins?

Absolutely not……I have used Rennaissancecwax for the last 10 years and it seems pretty resistant to dirt and chalk.
The finish is glossy and smooth but I’ve used 3000 grit cloth if and when needed to smooth the shaft. Been doing this a long time and all my cues’ shafts are in pristine condition. Renaissance Wax is used by museums for restoring the finish on some artifacts like picture frames, wooden boxes, etc. The Museum of Natural History uses Rennaissance Wax to preserve wood.

 

[Bavafongoul]

How would you know if a builder try's to sneak some metal into your shaft to make it heavier. Unless you own an x-ray machine

Because several cue makers responded saying they could build the shaft but they would need to put a flat metal receiver in the shaft to increase the weight. Richard Hsu 2.0 Tsunami shafts have a receiver to help protect the flat faced joint threads.

What I know is several cue makers said they could try adding weight and I didn’t even bother even exploring that notion because it is not the way I want the shaft built. It is like relying on a 1 oz. a weight in the butt of a cue butt to make the customer’s cue weight.

This isn’t the way to build a cue, IMO. If you have to adjust the weight after being built, the cue’s butt should be cored to accept headless bolts that can be positioned within the butt to achieve the balance you prefer. A heavy weight bolt
screwed in the butt does not help the balance but it will produce the desired weight. That’s not a good approach, IMO.

Several of my cues are cored to accept 1/4 oz. headless bolts I can position to change the balance if I wanted to change it. Three of my cues do not use any weight bolt because the cue maker built the butt exactly at 14.5 ozs. which is the butt weight on six of my cues. I am very fussy about my the weight ratio of my cues butt’s and shafts which the best cue makers take into consideration because it influences how the cue balance feels. I know what I want and like in a pool cue’s anatomy.

 

[garczar]

Schmelke makes one for 270bux.

 

[Bavafongoul]

John Chaplin of Coos Cues has an elaborate system for hitting target weight with his cues and shafts based on wood density, etc. I don't know if he'd be willing to take on your project, but I'm thinking he could probably pull it off if he was motivated to do so.

I have one of his kielwood shafts, and like it a lot.

Thanks for the tip. I was expecting tgat I’d have gotten more cue maker feedback which is why I started threads in the Wanted and Ask The Cue Maker Forums asking for anyone to build the shaft I want. There was very few that said they could build it and a couple of Azers I mentioned thought they could. But the response from cue makers was very low which tells me they hadn’t read the thread or didn’t think they could build the KW shaft to my specs. Fortunately, a big name in cue making I had contacted replied yesterday saying they think they can build it to my specs. I’m waiting for their written quote confirming my KW shaft specs and see how it turns out. I was told it was a money back guarantee if I wasn’t completely satisfied. Now that’s an offer expressing confidence to build what I want that others haven’t conveyed or expressed interest in attempting.

 

[Cuebuddy]

I wonder old growth maple from a century ago would be denser?

I have a few pieces of maple that is well over 100 years old and has the most growth rings I have ever counted in a one inch section.

 

[Bavafongoul]

Schmelke makes one for 270bux.

Spoke with Schmelke…….my friend has two KW shafts they made……weight is an issue with them too. However, I know they could build a shaft weighing my min. weight of 3.8 ozs in a 30” shaft. I discussed Schmelke as an option in one of my previous posts but there’s no guarantee or assurance it would be what I wanted. The offer I just received is iron clad. Keep it or return the KW for a full refund if I’m not satisfied with its specs. That is just too tempting of an offer to pass up. I really can’t lose but I have an intuitive feeling it will not come to that. I think this could be a home run because of the cue maker.

 

[Bavafongoul]

I wonder old growth maple from a century ago would be denser?

I have a few pieces of maple that is well over 100 years old and has the most growth rings I have ever counted in a one inch section.

You got the answer without struggling with the question. If you have access to the right wood, this is not a challenge.

However, finding that wood is and for only a couple of shafts I want made, it’s likely not worth the hassle and time to
try locating that quality wood. But those old trees just aren’t around much any more and contemporaneous cue makers
are finding it harder to build maple shafts that weigh in the low 4 oz. range in contrast with years past. It’s about the wood!

 

[Cuebuddy]

Post in thread 'Look at your cue.......PA PA PA PA PAPOWER!!!!'

May 4, 2016

I am counting growth rings on some maple shaft blanks that I know are at least 80 years old and probably much older. I can count around 50 years per inch. I have a decent supply of this and am looking forward to making a few shafts with it. I have a piece rough turned right now for a butt section but it may be rather hefty when finished.

• Cuebuddy

• 

There is a pic in this thread of a piece that has
32-40 per inch and I have a couple of pieces that have more.

I wish I would have grabbed more when I had the chance.

 

[JS858]

Praying for the guy that takes him on as a customer.

 

[Bavafongoul]

Praying for the guy that takes him on as a customer.

Well, my cue makers had no problem building my cues and shafts to my exacting specifications. I’m still close friends with Bob Owen who lost a wager with me on the last Royals/ Yankees playoffs. When you’re prepared to pay to get what you want, why shouldn’t you ultimately get it? Why must you settle if you know what you want could get made.

Settling for less than what you originally were looking to get to my way of thinking, that’s caving in, giving up, tossing in the towel, surrendering to your own laziness or that of others you contacted. Do you understand the difference between need and want? I don’t think you do, at least not yet. There is a real difference with distinction, not without.

I do not need another Kielwood shaft. I already have a great one made by Cory that sits on a fabulous flat faced radial pin Tim Scruggs cue. It is a great cue by a great cue maker that I’m blessed to own and pass along in due time….. hopefully not soon. That’s more than enough but I happen to also have some other wonderful cues made equally talented cue makers. However, the others have different pins and Cory only makes radial shafts.

So now I mainly play with my Scruggs cue and I miss not switching cues which I did before getting my KW shaft. It comes down to not needing a KW shaft but instead wanting one. If I cannot get what I want, but certainly do not need, why in heavens sake should I settle for less? Especially when I believe the KW shaft I want should be able to get made.

By chance, should you ever speak with Bob Owen, the two cue designs I gave him to build are very intricate & detailed, I’m sure he’d be in my corner & disagree. Anyway, if this shaft comes really close, I’ll order another shaft from this builder

 

[JS858]

Well, my cue makers had no problem building my cues and shafts to my exacting specifications. I’m still close friends with Bob Owen who lost a wager with me on the last Royals/ Yankees playoffs. When you’re prepared to pay to get what you want, why shouldn’t you ultimately get it? Why must you settle if you know what you want could get made.

Settling for less than what you originally were looking to get to my way of thinking, that’s caving in, giving up, tossing in the towel, surrendering to your own laziness or that of others you contacted. Do you understand the difference between need and want? I don’t think you do, at least not yet. There is a real difference with distinction, not without.

I do not need another Kielwood shaft. I already have a great one made by Cory that sits on a fabulous flat faced radial pin Tim Scruggs cue. It is a great cue by a great cue maker that I’m blessed to own and pass along in due time….. hopefully not soon. That’s more than enough but I happen to also have some other wonderful cues made equally talented cue makers. However, the others have different pins and Cory only makes radial shafts.

So now I mainly play with my Scruggs cue and I miss not switching cues which I did before getting my KW shaft. It comes down to not needing a KW shaft but instead wanting one. If I cannot get what I want, but certainly do not need, why in heavens sake should I settle for less? Especially when I believe the KW shaft I want should be able to get made.

By chance, should you ever speak with Bob Owen, the two cue designs I gave him to build are very intricate & detailed, I’m sure he’d be in my corner & disagree. Anyway, if this shaft comes really close, I’ll order another shaft from this builder

Dude. You’ve been neurotically posting for months about how you “need” a KW shaft that is within +\- 0.2oz of 4oz

That’s like a golfer saying he can’t hit a club if it’s not exactly a specific swingweight.
Either you suffer from some kind of hypersensitivity disorder or you’re just a weirdo.
Finally found someone willing to take you on as a customer, or give you your money back. Good for you, we don’t need updates.
I really do hope it works out for both of you in the end tho. So that we can all finally be done with this nonsense, and you can move on with your life.

 

[markjames]

hilarious

you’re just a weirdo.

 

[Bavafongoul]

You always have the option of not opening this thread or putting me on ignore like I’ve done to others and reciprocally
back I’m sure. Or you can attempt to mock, ridicule, demean whatever you are inclined to do which reflects more on
your penchant for being a cynic. Doesn’t matter one bit to me because we’ll never become chummy. However, the
subject of Kielwood is in line with the changes in pool cues and the inability to duplicate a shaft reflective of what was commonly available is noteworthy, IMO. Thankfully Jacoby Cues responded back and are willing to tackle this whereas
others said they couldn’t pull it off. Now you might not be interested one iota in this but others might be. In the interim,
I urge you to put me in ignore. I will do that for you and then both of us can merrily exist without bothering each other.