Kielwood Shaft Search

You don't have a Fargo rating, but a lot of your buddies do? How does that answer how you play?
I played a long time ago establishing a "pre-fargo" rating in BCA in very late 1980s in college in Oregon. After moving to the "just east of Seattle" area in 1992, BCA is much less prevalent, unfortunately. I played APA for many years, making great friends and doing well, yet it is not BCA. And yet BCA / Fargo is not perfect, given this thread and my cited Fargo is not representative post:

 
I played a long time ago establishing a "pre-fargo" rating in BCA in very late 1980s in college in Oregon. After moving to the "just east of Seattle" area in 1992, BCA is much less prevalent, unfortunately. I played APA for many years, making great friends and doing well, yet it is not BCA. And yet BCA / Fargo is not perfect, given this thread and my cited Fargo is not representative post:

This graph I did states I should be about a 37 out of the best rating of the blue curve of 362 rating instead of a 527 vs 850. Huge difference...

And I hate the rules of APA but made many friends and miss them given the format of always pushing teams to get top heavy and create new ones, which doesn't scale well yet the APA board doesn't choose to recognize this...
 
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I played a long time ago establishing a "pre-fargo" rating in BCA in very late 1980s in college in Oregon. After moving to the "just east of Seattle" area in 1992, BCA is much less prevalent, unfortunately. I played APA for many years, making great friends and doing well, yet it is not BCA. And yet BCA / Fargo is not perfect, given this thread and my cited Fargo is not representative post:

I could deal with hearing someone was a BCA master or an APA Super 7, or actually anything other than my buddies have Fargo, I don't. It adds nothing to the conversation.
 
I could deal with hearing someone was a BCA master or an APA Super 7, or actually anything other than my buddies have Fargo, I don't. It adds nothing to the conversation.
Another way of saying it, as I'm in my mid 50s and not playing golf as well as I used to for multiple reasons, when I get my equipment I like it to be tuned to how I like it to feel (forged vs cast, ball choices, etc, etc). No difference. Rating has nothing to do with equipment choices.
 
I'm from the old school 80 to 90 speed and the really good guys were 100+ and even 150+. LOL

So what is my fargo going off 80-90 speed.

They stopped using this system a long time ago. Shows you how much I am out of the game.
 
You don't have a Fargo rating, but a lot of your buddies do? How does that answer how you play?
I wasn’t asked how I play or how strong is my game. The question was do I have a Fargo rating. I answered “No” and maybe you should have asked what the ratings are of the people I play with and how well I fare?

Do I win more than I lose and what’s the game? 10 ball is different than 9 ball and 8 ball is different than both and 14.1 a game unto itself. Instead, you’re more inclined to be condescending or facetious, maybe sarcastic or humorous, embarrass, belittle, poke fun, demean. I don’t what your point is. I’ve been candid & posted straightforward comments in my KW threads.

Right now I am focused on seeing how well Jacoby Cues does building what I want but certainly don’t need. I’ve covered that point already but maybe you don’t see any difference between the two. If you want to discuss KW shafts, I welcome your input otherwise don’t bother posing questions to distract attention from what I want to discuss, more specifically, heavier KW shafts and why it is so difficult to produce them. Not looking to convert anyone…..just obtain opinions and forum input.
 
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I truly get the need vs. want thing- I should have used the term want not need in reference to your KW search. I would say that just about every cue related purchase that I ever made - which or the past 40 years amounts to many, many thousands of dollars, was want related and not need related. Most cues were eventually resold- I have about eight left here now - but , yes, agreed, it was virtually all WANT related- and tons of enjoyment over the years too!
I appreciate your post and acknowledgement that helps validate I’m not weird or aberrant like with my approach.
It wasn’t like I just woke up one day and the idea of spending tens of thousands of dollars on pool cues was smart.

In hindsight, it was financially dumb but I’ve lost more in this crazy stock market this year but at least I have my cues.
I acquired my cues because I wanted my kids and grandkids to have keepsakes that embodies my passion for pool.

It was enjoyable and satisfying to sit down and design what the pool cue should look like and how it should be built
to produce the balance and overall tactile feel I discovered works the best for me. I bought & sold a lot of cues to learn.

I have no regrets because decades after I am no longer around, my cues will be and hopefully owned and played with
by my grandkids and in time, my great grandchildren. In other words, when I am long gone, my cues will still be around.
 
That’s great and he makes one of the prettiest, highest priced KW shafts that take 5 months to build.

Mr. Hsu also has the challenge of building a heavier KW shaft . One of his just sold on Az that was 30”
length & only weighed 3.59 ozs., almost a 1/2 oz. lighter than my requirements. The only shafts he’s made
that I’ve seen that approaches 4 ozs. are 13mm shafts that are piloted. My shaft is flat faced so there isn’t
a brass receiver that boosts the shaft’s weight and the diameter is 12.75mm. Richard also is challenged
to build the shaft I want made like other cue makers & shaft builders I contacted expressed hesitancy over.

A couple of cue makers active on Az have expressed confidence they can do this and contacted me but
nothing concrete has happened yet. SSDiver2112 built the prettiest curly wood KW shaft, nicer than any
Tsunami cue, IMO. He posted photos on a different thread of mine. Phelps Cues also is a contender and
seems to have command over what’s needed to build a shaft as heavy as I want. Yesterday, a prominent
cue maker stepped up and contacted me. They want to tackle this shaft & offered a money back guarantee
if I wasn’t satisfied with how the shaft turned out. Now that’s really expressing confidence they can build it.

Indeed, Tsunami KW shaft are the highest priced of any KW shaft and take as long as some cues to build.
However, my requirements challenge any cue maker. I started my search last November and communicated
with over a dozen builders that all declined. Probably another 1/2 dozen never even responded with a reply.
So when a top name cue maker responded yesterday & said they are willing to give it a try, I became excited.

I have a thread in the Ask The Cue Maker Forum that outlines this and the different responses and suggestions.
Richard Hsu is a highly touted name and for good reason too because he builds an amazing KW shaft. As I’ve
learned, building a KW shaft is different. But no cue maker has a patent of how to build a KW shaft and any
competent cue maker with the right equipment can build one. The challenge is building a heavier version I want.

Based on all the cue makers that I’ve communicated with, the trick is to have the right wood to start with or else
you have to add artificially add weight to the shaft with an insert or something else. I want a flat faced shaft that
consists of wood, ferrule and tip…..that’s it, I failed to locate the Joel Hercek cue I wanted and looked for years.
My search for white/black speck Cortland linen failed as well. However, up until now, this search was also in vain.

Thank you for the advice about Richard Hsu but I don’t want to pay that much for just a wood shaft and sure don’t
want to wait 20 or more weeks to get it. My Cory Barnhart RMS shaft, costing hundreds less, plays every bit as nice
as his 2.0 Tsunami shafts do. I played for an hour with my friend’s Tsunami shaft and he used my Barnhart RMS shaft.

I sure can’t justify the higher price based on how the two shafts play but the Tsunami was definitely more handsome.
In conclusion, I’m not buying a shaft because of the way it looks. The only thing that matters is how the shaft performs.
I know a player’s skills decides how well any cue or shaft ultimately performs. KW shafts are a step up in wood shafts.
Won't a heavier Kielwood shaft deflect more than a lighter one? As for builders, Hsu is a great player, a great man, and a great businessman. Once you purchase from him, he will be there for you for the life of the product.
 
Won't a heavier Kielwood shaft deflect more than a lighter one? As for builders, Hsu is a great player, a great man, and a great businessman. Once you purchase from him, he will be there for you for the life of the product.
This. I would just go with the best.
 
Won't a heavier Kielwood shaft deflect more than a lighter one? As for builders, Hsu is a great player, a great man, and a great businessman. Once you purchase from him, he will be there for you for the life of the product.

Not to diminish what you are endorsing about Hsu but the very same can be said about any reputable builder, at least in my opinion. Jacoby Cues has been in business a long time and is a highly reputable name in cue making. And they are attempting to indulge my preference about wanting a heavier version KW shaft built and it isn’t taking 20+ weeks or any substantial down payment either. It is being done on a handshake with no money advanced and if the shafts don’t meet my specs, I don’t have to purchase them. That’s an offer Hsu or few other builders of KW shafts would match.

It is my understanding the front end mass is where you want the lightest portion of the shaft and several Azers have PM’s me letting me know they just got a KW shaft from 2 well respected cue makers I won’t name. The shafts weighed high 3.8 and 3.9 ozs. I’d be satisfied with that but my goal is 4 - 4.1 ozs. If Jacoby can pull that off great but if they do miss, it will likely be really close. Jacoby is thinking about a different coring of my shafts and I’m leaving it up to them.

I haven’t yet seen any Tsunami shafts for sale that have the weight I want and I didn’t contact him because IMO the
pricing is unrealistic and a 5 months lead time seems inordinately long for just a shaft. But certainly if other cue makers
can build what I want, I’d imagine so could Hsu. All I am saying I haven’t seen any heavier version Tsunami shafts for
sale, at least not yet. Over the past 6 mths., I’ve search for KW shafts and heavier versions sure seem pretty rare.
 
I didn’t contact him because IMO the
pricing is unrealistic and a 5 months lead time seems inordinately long for just a shaft.
listen, i hope you do find what you are looking for, but what seems unrealistic and inordinately long are your daily thousand word treaties about your quest that you’ve spent years writing

i know you won’t settle for something that doesn’t meet your demands, but why does it have to be fast and inexpensive?

5 months, $500?
6 months, $600?

what the hell
tsunami has a satisfaction guarantee
just like those other ones you mentioned

and his fargo rate is higher than
any other kielwood shaft maker
(✌🏻✌🏽✌🏾) peace sign emoji
 
Not to diminish what you are endorsing about Hsu but the very same can be said about any reputable builder, at least in my opinion. Jacoby Cues has been in business a long time and is a highly reputable name in cue making. And they are attempting to indulge my preference about wanting a heavier version KW shaft built and it isn’t taking 20+ weeks or any substantial down payment either. It is being done on a handshake with no money advanced and if the shafts don’t meet my specs, I don’t have to purchase them. That’s an offer Hsu or few other builders of KW shafts would match.

It is my understanding the front end mass is where you want the lightest portion of the shaft and several Azers have PM’s me letting me know they just got a KW shaft from 2 well respected cue makers I won’t name. The shafts weighed high 3.8 and 3.9 ozs. I’d be satisfied with that but my goal is 4 - 4.1 ozs. If Jacoby can pull that off great but if they do miss, it will likely be really close. Jacoby is thinking about a different coring of my shafts and I’m leaving it up to them.

I haven’t yet seen any Tsunami shafts for sale that have the weight I want and I didn’t contact him because IMO the
pricing is unrealistic and a 5 months lead time seems inordinately long for just a shaft. But certainly if other cue makers
can build what I want, I’d imagine so could Hsu. All I am saying I haven’t seen any heavier version Tsunami shafts for
sale, at least not yet. Over the past 6 mths., I’ve search for KW shafts and heavier versions sure seem pretty rare.
He's a one man operation. Takes about 2 months to makes a Hsunami. If wait is 5 months that means he's getting orders faster than he can fulfill them. love Jacoby cues. Your desire is what it is but is also self contradicting. Kielwood is torrified. That drives all moisture out of the maple
Moisture is water and water is heavy. So you're are seeking a shaft that's been made lighter than it would otherwise be but you want it to weighs much as a standard maple shaft wood. Hope you find what you want.
 
He's a one man operation. Takes about 2 months to makes a Hsunami. If wait is 5 months that means he's getting orders faster than he can fulfill them. love Jacoby cues. Your desire is what it is but is also self contradicting. Kielwood is torrified. That drives all moisture out of the maple
Moisture is water and water is heavy. So you're are seeking a shaft that's been made lighter than it would otherwise be but you want it to weighs much as a standard maple shaft wood. Hope you find what you want.
The weight isn't what makes a torified maple shaft "special." The torification process creates a slightly stiffer, more stable shaft, with certain tonal qualities. Yes, they are generally lighter due to the process. That being said, a slightly heavier KW shaft, is still a KW shaft.
Sounds like gooblygook, but hopefully makes sense.
😎👍
 
listen, i hope you do find what you are looking for, but what seems unrealistic and inordinately long are your daily thousand word treaties about your quest that you’ve spent years writing

i know you won’t settle for something that doesn’t meet your demands, but why does it have to be fast and inexpensive?

Why should it be slow and expensive is the flip side. And you don’t have to read any of my posts. It is your option.

But if you do and are annoyed, just stop doing it. You’ll feel better. Think of this like lifting your head on a pool stroke.
Stop doing it. And Tsunami is just another brand and there are equally talented, better cue builders that also make KW shafts that are a lot less expensive by hundreds of dollars. Buy what you like and can afford. I certainly can afford to get any KW shaft I want but I won’t overpay when there are high quality substitutes. Until there is empirical evidence that proves one brand is superior, why pay a lot more for a shaft that doesn’t perform any different or better?

What I did discover is there are a lot of KW shaft builders that were unable to tackle this and openly admitted such. They simply did not have the wood inventory to produce a heavier version KW shaft but apparently some do. It has taken awhile to locate them but I now have names of several cue maker for my future reference and possible use.
 
The weight isn't what makes a torified maple shaft "special." The torification process creates a slightly stiffer, more stable shaft, with certain tonal qualities. Yes, they are generally lighter due to the process. That being said, a slightly heavier KW shaft, is still a KW shaft.
Sounds like gooblygook, but hopefully makes sense.
😎👍
This could turn out to be a Titanic flop. I do not think so. I have owned a lot of pool cues like other members. I have my own beliefs about building a pool cue. Eventually, when I am no longer around, some one will stumble across one of my posts about pool cue anatomy. The ideal shaft weight is 20% (give or take 2%) of the cue’s weight. You can play with any cue any weight and play well, okay or great. The best balance, in my humble opinion, is what I’ve been preaching and the best cue makers, the legendary ones, the greatest names built cues this way. If you research this, you’ll see it’s not just a coincidence.
 
Just built a custom cue at the expo and requested one of their kielwood shafts to my specifications. I gave the maker one of my shafts to duplicate exactly what I like, long taper.
 
Just built a custom cue at the expo and requested one of their kielwood shafts to my specifications. I gave the maker one of my shafts to duplicate exactly what I like, long taper.
Who did you contract for the build?
 
Who did you contract for the build?

Stephen Janes at Joss cues.
His father built a wonderful cue for me deliverd in 2007.
Am looking for a box cue in a Buska style, cut diamonds and dots.
Very simple, classic.
I was very particular about colors in the inlays.
Birdseye maple forearm, ebony butt. Hoppe ring, elephant ear wrap.
Not a done deal yet as I am awaiting drawings from Stephen.
 
Stephen Janes at Joss cues.
His father built a wonderful cue for me deliverd in 2007.
Am looking for a box cue in a Buska style, cut diamonds and dots.
Very simple, classic.
I was very particular about colors in the inlays.
Birdseye maple forearm, ebony butt. Hoppe ring, elephant ear wrap.
Not a done deal yet as I am awaiting drawings from Stephen.
Should be a wonderful wand. I hope it turns out perfectly for you.
😎👍
 
Should be a wonderful wand. I hope it turns out perfectly for you.
😎👍

I am sure it will.
It will be my new player.
I am going to give Stephen the butt of the cue that his father built for a repress of the linen which his father signed and dated, and I will retire it.
 

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