Kim Steel pool tables

mr8ball

mr8ball

Active member
Hello All, On a Kim Steel pool table that has a crown in it can you get it out? I have two pool rooms that I go to sometimes and both of them have these tables. All of them show level in the middle and when you pull the lever to each side close to the rail (Side to side) it will show the out side of them need to come up .010 to .015 or 2 to 3 lines using a 12" machinist lever. When they try to raise the out side up the middle comes up also. I am guessing when they were sit up the first time (20 some years ago) they were not done right. Most of them are like this on all 3 pieces of slate. It is really noticeable when you slow roll the cue ball. Now many years later is it to late? Have they crowned to much? If not how could it be fixed? Thanks in advance
 
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Its been awhile since I have worked on a kim steel table. I will be picking a couple up in a week or two then i can till you for sure.

I think you can look at the center seams and see where to drill a couple of holes so you can use a machinest screw and screw down into the frame to draw the slate down where needed then level as normal and fill in holes with prefered filler. Cover screwheads with a little wax or paper then finish off with bondo. this way your screwheads dont get damaged when table needs to be dismanteled or fine tuned again.

Craig
 
n10spool said:
Its been awhile since I have worked on a kim steel table. I will be picking a couple up in a week or two then i can till you for sure.

I think you can look at the center seams and see where to drill a couple of holes so you can use a machinest screw and screw down into the frame to draw the slate down where needed then level as normal and fill in holes with prefered filler. Cover screwheads with a little wax or paper then finish off with bondo. this way your screwheads dont get damaged when table needs to be dismanteled or fine tuned again.

Craig
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Thanks Craig, You are in for a treat. You can't find any parts for them anymore. Just about all of the tables are crowned like that. Some of the tables have 3 screw in the frame across the middle of the slate and some of them only have 1 in the middle. They will only raise the slate. If the middle ones have no pressure on them the outside can't be adjusted enough to get the seams right. I am not sure the owner wants to put in that much work or money to fix them. Thanks for the reply
 
Hey guys what does that mean exactly "Crowned" Im in the market to buy one of these and I heard some bad things and I also heard a lot of good things.
 
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John Daminato said:
Hey guys what does that mean exactly "Crowned" Im in the market to buy one of these and I heard some bad things and I also heard a lot of good things.
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(1) You always hear good things about a pool table someone is trying to dump, from the seller.

(2) As a table mechanic, you're expected to fix the KS to play like GC's or Diamond's...but, truth of the matter is...should have bought a GC or Diamond if that's what you wanted your table to play like...because the KS is a piece of shit....in the long run.

Glen
 
I wish someone could step up and give some real world engineer details as to why the table is considered a piece of shit...Why is it the bulk of players i talk to say when they are set up properly they are just as good as GC's and essentially play harder then a GC out of the box. GC4's frame is made out of like 65% particle board. How could particle board ever be considered higher quality then steel? The mechanic will be here in 15minz. I play on Diamonds and GCs'. I will be able to assess the playability pretty quickly.

My thoughts are that USA mechanics dislike this table a bit because they are so used to working on GC's and Diamonds. Im not sure but I bet a European mechanic will say GC's suck for a number of reasons. :smile:


Pro's:
1.1 1/4” slates 30MM
2. Slate-Levellers: Take the guesswork away from the table
mechanic, and make wooden shimmies obsolete.
3.The UK’s no. 1 Professional pool table for the last 10 years.
4. • Steel frame: Ensures a sturdy structure for the slate. Much less
sensitive to humidity and temperature, cannot warp. Though slightly heavier and much stronger, the parts of the frame are not as bulky as those in conventional table.


Cons:
1.When you can't staple the rail cloth on any more under the rails, or in the pockets to attach the cloth, and have to resort to using glue to hold the rail cloth on.
2.You can't modify the rails to take K55 cushions even if you wanted to because of the aluminum rail design, which further adds to the problem of trying to extend the rails to tighten the pockets.
3. using nails to hold in the pocket liners from the topside...is a joke.
 
John Daminato said:
I wish someone could step up and give some real world engineer details as to why the table is considered a piece of shit...Why is it the bulk of players i talk to say when they are set up properly they are just as good as GC's and essentially play harder then a GC out of the box. GC4's frame is made out of like 65% particle board. How could particle board ever be considered higher quality then steel? The mechanic will be here in 15minz. I play on Diamonds and GCs'. I will be able to assess the playability pretty quickly.

My thoughts are that USA mechanics dislike this table a bit because they are so used to working on GC's and Diamonds. Im not sure but I bet a European mechanic will say GC's suck for a number of reasons. :smile:


Pro's:
1.1 1/4” slates 30MM
2. Slate-Levellers: Take the guesswork away from the table
mechanic, and make wooden shimmies obsolete.
3.The UK’s no. 1 Professional pool table for the last 10 years.
4. • Steel frame: Ensures a sturdy structure for the slate. Much less
sensitive to humidity and temperature, cannot warp. Though slightly heavier and much stronger, the parts of the frame are not as bulky as those in conventional table.


Cons:
1.When you can't staple the rail cloth on any more under the rails, or in the pockets to attach the cloth, and have to resort to using glue to hold the rail cloth on.
2.You can't modify the rails to take K55 cushions even if you wanted to because of the aluminum rail design, which further adds to the problem of trying to extend the rails to tighten the pockets.
3. using nails to hold in the pocket liners from the topside...is a joke.
Click to expand...

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There is no particle board on a GC, its solid hardwood construction...maybe on the knockoffs particle board is used. But not on the real deal GC' who told you there was particle board on a GC?
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Rob.M
 
:cool:

2 reputable dealers that sells all brands..Its not important anymore. I saw a GC4 built from the ground up, thought it was an amazing table and played well. Its hard to remember but I think there were layers of particle board in the frame. I apologize if Im wrong. :cool:

The good thing is my K-Steel is set up from a mechanic that has done over a hundred of them. I need to spend a some time on it but I have absolutely no idea why anyone thinks this table sucks. the pockets from the factory are cut tighter then GC's..That I confirm. I ask him why mechanics would say these are shit. His round about answer was that they are harder to build but the frame almost cant be beat.
 
might it be that steel and slate do not work well together? like they don't expand and contract properly with heat changes; thus causing the crowning?

just a thought ..
 
Brunswick gold crown frame

The frame is made up of long blocks of real wood jointed together then blocked together to make up the base frame and slate sills in sections that can be dissassembled for transport... That's why the table is so sturdy, its a tank! Base frame is dowled,has 1/2" bolts that are 8 inches long that tie the sections together. Every thing is tied in to the base in one way or another. My pick is the GC lV or GC V over any table'
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Rob.M
 
John Daminato said:
I wish someone could step up and give some real world engineer details as to why the table is considered a piece of shit...Why is it the bulk of players i talk to say when they are set up properly they are just as good as GC's and essentially play harder then a GC out of the box. GC4's frame is made out of like 65% particle board. How could particle board ever be considered higher quality then steel? The mechanic will be here in 15minz. I play on Diamonds and GCs'. I will be able to assess the playability pretty quickly.

My thoughts are that USA mechanics dislike this table a bit because they are so used to working on GC's and Diamonds. Im not sure but I bet a European mechanic will say GC's suck for a number of reasons. :smile:


Pro's:
1.1 1/4” slates 30MM
2. Slate-Levellers: Take the guesswork away from the table
mechanic, and make wooden shimmies obsolete.
3.The UK’s no. 1 Professional pool table for the last 10 years.
4. • Steel frame: Ensures a sturdy structure for the slate. Much less
sensitive to humidity and temperature, cannot warp. Though slightly heavier and much stronger, the parts of the frame are not as bulky as those in conventional table.


Cons:
1.When you can't staple the rail cloth on any more under the rails, or in the pockets to attach the cloth, and have to resort to using glue to hold the rail cloth on.
2.You can't modify the rails to take K55 cushions even if you wanted to because of the aluminum rail design, which further adds to the problem of trying to extend the rails to tighten the pockets.
3. using nails to hold in the pocket liners from the topside...is a joke.
Click to expand...


The wood strips that you staple the rail cloth to is replaceable, the only bad thing about KS tables is the availability of parts. Any decent mechanic shouldnt have a problem with them.
 
Yes when they were pulling the old rails apart, some of the wood strips did crack. My mechanic has a CNC machine in his shop, he said he can easily make those strips but actually he felt it wasnt even necessary yet and to my eyes the cloth on the rails is perfect. I may over time invest in putting new sub rails on with new rubber. He said he can fabricate this for me and do the labor for about $300.00 out the door. My rails are K65 profile or maybe it 55, the number ends in 5 I forgot the spec number....:smile:
 
John Daminato said:
Yes when they were pulling the old rails apart, some of the wood strips did crack. My mechanic has a CNC machine in his shop, he said he can easily make those strips but actually he felt it wasnt even necessary yet and to my eyes the cloth on the rails is perfect. I may over time invest in putting new sub rails on with new rubber. He said he can fabricate this for me and do the labor for about $300.00 out the door. My rails are K65 profile or maybe it 55, the number ends in 5 I forgot the spec number....:smile:
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They're actually K66, I see you're in Chicago. Lemme guess you're mechanic's initials are JC?
 
matteroner said:
might it be that steel and slate do not work well together? like they don't expand and contract properly with heat changes; thus causing the crowning?

just a thought ..
Click to expand...

doubt this because http://www.gabrielsbilliards.com/pool/ use I-beam frames and they are considered equals to Diamonds, even use a lot of the same materials in the rails, infact Diamond might distribute Gabriels in the states. Very rare table brand in the states. There is a pool hall in here in Chicago that have like 24 of them. No players that i know go there anymore because its a little pricey to play and because there are not players there.. $14.00 an hour. This pool hall had major potential but the owners started doing things IMO that were not player friendly. Really cool spot tho.
 
did i say Kim steels at Gcue. NO, Gabrielles they have. Havent been there in years, they cater to a more Downtown crowd or used to.
 
Never played on a KS pool table but several Carom tables and they play great.
Shakespheres in Denver had around 20 KS tables 4 or 5 being Carom tables. Ceulemans raved about how well they played. I just spent Saturday with George Ashby and friends where he has 2 KS Carom tables. Played awesome. A friend in Iowa has one and I love it.

Anyone play caroms on a GC?? Worst table ever for the game. Maybe one reason the game died in this country. Once they thinned the slates and took away the T-Rail. Booo. No good. They're way too light weight for carom games.

Sorry, had to say it.
 
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Kim Steel parts are available from these folks, just shoot them an e-mail:

http://www.samleisure.co.uk/pool-snooker-tables-spares/

We have a room (Cues II, Marietta GA) that has a room full of Kim Steel's: They play just fine; some just "more fine" than others.

I recently had the opportunity to play on a new KS Mk II at an associates residence in the UK, and it was quite enjoyable.

I was on the lookout for a stateside Kim Steel before falling into an absolutely pristine, two owner (home use), 1964 9' Brunswick Sport King that already had the rails extended and pretty fresh rubber.

The folks at Sam's I traded e-mail with were very helpful, and had I located one before purchasing the Brunswick, I'm confident that anything needed could be sourced in a reasonable amount of time.

Hope this helps.
 
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