KT...Has to be said

Fleece3

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know this is going to be unpopular and get me flamed, however.....KT has ALREADY put 2+ million dollars into the pockets of previously, very underpaid pool players. That is more money (in the same time span) than ever before. Shouldn't we be thankful for that? I am sure the players are, which is why they have not blasted him. Lets give the man a chance, and even IF it ends say "THANKS". He has put more EFFORT/money into advancing the game of pool than any other promoter. So far his reward has been being called a crook up here.
 
Fleece3 said:
I know this is going to be unpopular and get me flamed, however.....KT has ALREADY put 2+ million dollars into the pockets of previously, very underpaid pool players. That is more money (in the same time span) than ever before. Shouldn't we be thankful for that? I am sure the players are, which is why they have not blasted him. Lets give the man a chance, and even IF it ends say "THANKS". He has put more EFFORT/money into advancing the game of pool than any other promoter. So far his reward has been being called a crook up here.


I don't think anyone would flame you on that post. All you did is post the truth or what you as a poster perceive to be the truth. If the IPT does fold it's tent and moves on i am sure that the players that received some of the money already doled out will say thanks for the memories and the fun it brought.. He is only being called many names because he held a tournament knowing in advance that there was going to be a problem with the payments.. He should have put the reno tournament off until he had more financing in line. After all. did he not say on more than 1 occasion that he will guarantee the money out of his pocket thru 2007. Anyway. thanks for the great post and i also hope that it does not get flamed to much... if it does. then just ask Mr Wilson to delete it...worked for me in the past..............................mike
 
Fleece3...I agree with cueball1950 that your post does not deserve to be flamed. The issue KT faces is that people are going to be judged regarding ALL their behavior...some of which may be great and some distasteful.

I think everyone must stand up and accept criticism when it is due regardless of past grand and glorious deeds.

And keep in mind that any significant favor done by KT has only been done for a VERY few players. Those who finished 61-199 in Vegas were paid $5,000 or less and so a huge percentage of the players did little more than breakeven.

And many of those same players competed in Reno and have not yet been paid so, after expenses have actually LOST money...the qualifiers CERTAINLY have.

Finally, regarding effort/money being put into the sport let's not forget the many regional tour promotors/sponsors and pool room owners who are putting up $1,000-5,000 added money EVERY SINGLE WEEKEND all over the United States....and have been doing it for years.

Add the prize money to the "player auction" proceeds and MANY of the IPT players would have been better off staying closer to home.

But I agree with you that credit should be given where deserved and there is credit to be given as you point out.
Regards,
Jim
 
Mr Wilson ?

cueball1950 said:
Anyway. thanks for the great post and i also hope that it does not get flamed to much... if it does. then just ask Mr Wilson to delete it...worked for me in the past..............................mike

So..... if you see things on this board that you don't like you can just call up this Mr. Wilson, and he will delete it?
That's pretty nifty. I wonder if he can disable my ability to click onto this IPT forum. That's what I need; this place is making me crazy. :eek: I hope KT will just do something.

In all seriousness, to FLEECE3, good post !. And good points.

Red Lite
 
Fleece3 said:
He has put more EFFORT/money into advancing the game of pool than any other promoter. So far his reward has been being called a crook up here.

Well, don't consider this a flame, but I do have a different opinion ...

He has NOT put more effort into advancing the game of pool than any other promoter. I guarantee our very own Jay Helfert has him beat in that category. How about guys like Mike Zuglan, Alan Hopkins, Mike Janis, Barry Berhman, Grady Mathews?

Perhaps he's put more money into pool, especially if you match time frame against time frame, but don't be so blinded by his money that you forget the guys who have kept this game going. Without those people, and people like them, KT would have had no sport to try to jump in and buy with his millions.
 
av84fun said:
And keep in mind that any significant favor done by KT has only been done for a VERY few players. Those who finished 61-199 in Vegas were paid $5,000 or less and so a huge percentage of the players did little more than breakeven.

OK, I think I see your point. But lets try this...

You are saying that the bottom 75%, only recieved $5,000.

How much did the bottom 75% at the US Open receive?

How about the bottm 75% at the World Championships?

Or at Derby City
 
The whole IPT problem is the contestants at Reno did not receive! And have continued to not recieve despite stories, stonewalling, and now, a new story.

Martin


Fleece3 said:
OK, I think I see your point. But lets try this...

You are saying that the bottom 75%, only recieved $5,000.

How much did the bottom 75% at the US Open receive?

How about the bottm 75% at the World Championships?

Or at Derby City
 
Fleece3 said:
I know this is going to be unpopular and get me flamed, however.....KT has ALREADY put 2+ million dollars into the pockets of previously, very underpaid pool players. That is more money (in the same time span) than ever before. Shouldn't we be thankful for that? I am sure the players are, which is why they have not blasted him. Lets give the man a chance, and even IF it ends say "THANKS". He has put more EFFORT/money into advancing the game of pool than any other promoter. So far his reward has been being called a crook up here.

You make a good point that KT and the IPT has given pool players the biggest pay days in the history of the sport.....and for that I am sure the players are greatful. The thing is, if the IPT is about to end, KT should have enough respect for the players and sponsors, etc. to just be up-front with them and tell them the truth. I think it will sting a little, but atleast the players, sponsors, fans, etc. will respect him for his efforts. The money the players earned wasnt "easy money". They had to travel alot and some put up their own money and they had to beat the best players in the world to cash in.....And I said in another post a while back, that this has to help you respect other tourney directors like Mike Janis, Tommy Kennedy, etc. that have ran a tour successfully for a long period of time.

Southpaw
 
If the IPT goes bust tomorrow I think it would be a difficult call as to what good it ahs done? I agree that he has shown how good pool could become IF it had the money. However as others have said he will leave HUNDREDS of pool players in debt in his wake. Many have put there lives on hold and turned down jobs etc. for over a YEAR chasing the IPT dream. In addition MUCH of the money he put in came from the pool players in the first place.

Lets hope it doesn't end here...
 
TheOne said:
If the IPT goes bust tomorrow I think it would be a difficult call as to what good it ahs done? I agree that he has shown how good pool could become IF it had the money. However as others have said he will leave HUNDREDS of pool players in debt in his wake. Many have put there lives on hold and turned down jobs etc. for over a YEAR chasing the IPT dream. ...

Can't you say the same about EVERY failed business?

Why should our business (pool) be any different.

Remember the WFL, XFL, WCW, ABA etc...What about PanAm.
 
Fleece3 said:
Can't you say the same about EVERY failed business?

Why should our business (pool) be any different.

Remember the WFL, XFL, WCW, ABA etc...What about PanAm.

I think if it fails tomorrow most of the players that saw a profit or broke even will agree with you. As a fan who has lost nothing I can see where you're coming from. However I doubt you'll find a qualifier or a player in the bottom 100 that will agree. I don't see how KT's broken promises (if it fails) compares to any of the business you mention? Lets hope he saves the day.
 
Jimmy M. said:
Well, don't consider this a flame, but I do have a different opinion ...

He has NOT put more effort into advancing the game of pool than any other promoter. I guarantee our very own Jay Helfert has him beat in that category. How about guys like Mike Zuglan, Alan Hopkins, Mike Janis, Barry Berhman, Grady Mathews?

Perhaps he's put more money into pool, especially if you match time frame against time frame, but don't be so blinded by his money that you forget the guys who have kept this game going. Without those people, and people like them, KT would have had no sport to try to jump in and buy with his millions.
You can add our own Eydie Romano and Barbara to this list also. Probably others, but them definitely.
 
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Be Still, My Heart !!!

jazznpool said:
The whole IPT problem is the contestants at Reno did not receive! And have continued to not recieve despite stories, stonewalling, and now, a new story.
Martin


Say WHAT ? No way. I'm so excited about the upcoming Announcement, that I can barely sit still....
Doug
 
Bravo!!!

ScottR said:
You can add our own Eydie Romano and Barbara to this list also. Probably others, but them definitely.


Well, after reading all this IPT hoopla, Im very pleased that someone took the time to acknowledge the time & effort the Tour directors have put into Pocket Tournaments (present day)!! Mike Janis, Eydie and Bob, Barbara... Bravo! We should turn all this negative energy around and support Tours that are healthy!! Pool is here forever, not KT


cloth boi
 
TheOne said:
If the IPT goes bust tomorrow I think it would be a difficult call as to what good it ahs done? I agree that he has shown how good pool could become IF it had the money. However as others have said he will leave HUNDREDS of pool players in debt in his wake. Many have put there lives on hold and turned down jobs etc. for over a YEAR chasing the IPT dream. In addition MUCH of the money he put in came from the pool players in the first place.

Lets hope it doesn't end here...


Haven't we been down this road? I thought it was agreed that the amount the players have put into the IPT is very small compared to what the IPT has paid out and what it has spent on staging and promotion.

It would not be difficult at all to discuss the good the IPT has done. Just as it is not difficult to discuss the obvious flaws the IPT has besides the non-payment issue.

The non-payment, the lies, and the disrespect shown to the players and fans is reprehensible. It does not outweigh the fact though that the IPT has shaken the professional pool world up and given hope to most of the pros out there where there was little to none before. If the IPT were to declare bankruptcy tommorrow then it would be regarded as the biggest failure in pool coupled with the largest payouts in pool. No one to date has dared to be as big as the IPT.

Barry Hearn is a multi-millionaire with loads of media connections. He hasn't attempted to do what the IPT has so far. Matt Braun and Allen Hopkins like to stage special events which only benefit very few players and have funky rules that make a circus spectacle of the game.

It cannot be known if "hundreds" of players will be left in "debt" if the IPT fails. I very much doubt that there are players who have put otherwise secure lives at risk for the IPT. Most of the players on the IPT roster are full-time pool players from what I can see. My experience is that most of them will play heads-up sets for more money than a full week of IPT expenses.

There is no doubt that Trudeau has run the IPT in a very heavyhanded manner regarding the players. There is no doubt that he spent very little effort to create a grassroots marketing campaign and that he gave the players little to go on for them to promote the IPT. That said, there is also no doubt that he has spent a lot of money to create a sellable product. He put IPT programming on during infomercial time at his expense. He got the IPT broadcast live on ESPN Europe. It is on an up and coming sports channel in the U.S.

In the end though, the players have contributed very little financially and have been rewarded handsomely when seen in purely financial terms. It appears as though this may continue. If it does not then at least there was a man who put up a lot of money, much more than he took in from the players, to try and make it work. That much at least should not be in dispute. Of course taken individually, some players of course put in far more than they have received in return at this point. It's not hundreds though and it's probably not life altering debts that have been incurred.
 
Roadie....EXCELLENT post and you make great points. Where I would disagree with you is regarding the qualifier players. MANY of them (and/or their sponsors) entered MULTIPLE events to qualify which, added to their travel expenses to the events plus to Reno, are BIG TIME in the hole.

I hope ALL players are paid but I have a special soft spot for the Roadies...and you may be one of them given your screen name...out there busting their chops...and their wallets trying to qualify.

Regards,
Jim
 
RED LITE said:
So..... if you see things on this board that you don't like you can just call up this Mr. Wilson, and he will delete it?


What i am talking about is if you start a post and it starts to turn into a flame war between 2 OTHER people, (not yourself the original poster) you can ask that admin delete it before it goes any further is all.........mike
 
av84fun said:
Roadie....EXCELLENT post and you make great points. Where I would disagree with you is regarding the qualifier players. MANY of them (and/or their sponsors) entered MULTIPLE events to qualify which, added to their travel expenses to the events plus to Reno, are BIG TIME in the hole.

I hope ALL players are paid but I have a special soft spot for the Roadies...and you may be one of them given your screen name...out there busting their chops...and their wallets trying to qualify.

Regards,
Jim

Jim,

You are correct here. Ernesto told me yesterday he has spent 15K to get his son Oscar qualified to play in December. This includes the earlier Qualifiers for Vegas and Reno.

I know Tang went to four Qualifers out of his own pocket, at about $2,500 a pop. I only helped him out on the last one. Then he signed with Mark Trainer, won 6K in Reno, and can't get paid.

Many, many other players are in for thousands chasing this dream, flying back and forth across the Atlantic in attempts to qualify. Not small money by any means.

We all know hundreds of thousands went into the IPt coffers from the Qualifying events.
 
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