KT's NOT GOING ANYWHERE

[jimmyg]

In the past I've had my share to say about how I feel about the IPT and it's founder Kevin Trudeau, most of the time being brutally honest, and in hindsight, fairly accurate.

Lately, mainly because of the emotional and financial harm that I've seen inflicted upon so many of the participants and true believers, and also because of the lingering glimmer of desperate hope that still flickers in the eyes of some of the truly nice and respected members of this forum, I have been very silent on the subject.

Overlooking, forgiving, and wanting to continue this one sided, parasitic relationship with KT and the IPT. Begging to be victimized over and over again, like returning to a spouse that beats and abuses his partner. I just couldn't bear to stick another realistic pin into that balloon inflated with bullshit.

Since I am not emotionally, or financially dependent upon the success or failure of the IPT, maybe I can see this situation more clearly than many others. Jay Helfert has stated that he believes that if more payments are made, they should be considered "hush money"; that KT is making payments so that he will not be legally pursued. While that may be partially true, I believe that the reason is much simplier than that.

Not only do I believe that KT, has successfully conned and duped every single IPT player, and most of the pool community, but that he continues to do so on a daily basis.

Every time someone orders a tape, a video on demand, orders a box of IPT chaulk, a set of balls, or one of his new bridges, each and every IPT player gets ripped off anew. And every time a future IPT hopefull puts up his $2K for a "qualifier to nowhere" it adds to the IPT's bottom line. With nothing more than an operating website KT continues to profit from the talent and hard work of all the players that believed in him and his IPT. There are no royalties or profit sharing for the players, as promised. Every single time a product is sold, money is being taken out of the pockets of the players who's talents KT is still selling.

And the insult to injury is that KT is slowly paying off the players with part of the profits that they should be sharing anyhow. But, ironically, the players seem happy to be treated so shabbily, with many begging for even more abuse. As though it's the only game in town, last gas for next 10,000miles.

Maybe some of us have been real lucky, or possibly just better actors, being able to spit in the face of people that have tried to treat us that way. And somehow, almost always, something better has come along. Being able to, not only, move far ahead, but do so holding our heads up very high. Pleading with, and begging KT will not accomplish either.

I, personally, feel that in order for pool to become more acceptable, respectable and move further into mainstream America, KT and people like him cannot be allowed to be associated with it at all.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

Jim

 

[jay helfert]

In the past I've had my share to say about how I feel about the IPT and it's founder Kevin Trudeau, most of the time being brutally honest, and in hindsight, fairly accurate.

Lately, mainly because of the emotional and financial harm that I've seen inflicted upon so many of the participants and true believers, and also because of the lingering glimmer of desperate hope that still flickers in the eyes of some of the truly nice and respected members of this forum, I have been very silent on the subject.

Overlooking, forgiving, and wanting to continue this one sided, parasitic relationship with KT and the IPT. Begging to be victimized over and over again, like returning to a spouse that beats and abuses his partner. I just couldn't bear to stick another realistic pin into that balloon inflated with bullshit.

Since I am not emotionally, or financially dependent upon the success or failure of the IPT, maybe I can see this situation more clearly than many others. Jay Helfert has stated that he believes that if more payments are made, they should be considered "hush money"; that KT is making payments so that he will not be legally pursued. While that may be partially true, I believe that the reason is much simplier than that.

Not only do I believe that KT, has successfully conned the every IPT player, and most of the pool community, but that he continues to do so on a daily basis.

Every time someone orders a tape, a video on demand, orders a box of IPT chaulk, a set of balls, or one of his new bridges, each and every IPT player gets ripped off anew. And every time a future IPT hopefull puts up his $2K for a "qualifier to nowhere" it adds to the IPT's bottom line. With nothing more than an operating website KT continues to profit from the talent and hard work of all the players that believed in him and his IPT. There are no royalties or profit sharing for the players, as promised. Every single time a product is sold, money is being taken out of the pockets of the players who's talents KT is still selling.

And the insult to injury is that KT is slowly paying off the players with part of the profits that they should be sharing anyhow. But, ironically, the players seem happy to be treated so shabbily, with many begging for even more abuse. As though it's the only game in town, last gas for next 10,000miles.

Maybe some of us have been real lucky, or possibly just better actors, being able to spit in the face of people that have tried to treat us that way. And somehow, almost always, something better has come along. Being able to, not only, move far ahead, but do so holding our heads up very high. Pleading with, and begging KT will not accomplish either.

I, personally, feel that in order for pool to become more acceptable, respectable and move further into mainstream America, KT and people like him cannot be allowed to be associated with it at all.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

Jim

Tap Tap Tap

 

[Blackjack]

I, personally, feel that in order for pool to become more acceptable, respectable and move further into mainstream America, KT and people like him cannot be allowed to be associated with it at all.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

Jim

Jim,
I believe that you have effectively and appropriately offended both Kevin and Deno by having the audacity to shed light on the truth about a business entity that was specifically designed with the intention of deceiving everybody that believed in it.

Over the past year I have sort of warmed up to the "Prophet of Doom" moniker that KT so eloquently bestowed upon me. KT told others how "enthusiastically negative" I was while at the same time he and Deno knew all along that I saw right through both of them. Their only defense was to tell people not to listen to myself and others that were quick to see this as another con game KT was playing.

Money, as well as the promise of money can do a lot of things to a person's thinking. Peope like Kevin prey upon the hopes and dreams of those that are wishing for things to get better. He promises everything that he knows you are wishing for - he markets these dreams to you in the form of memberships and products - then he disappears. I sadly watched while one by one my friends bought into the confidnece scheme hook line and sinker. They would tell me that they knew about KT's past, but they were "praying for the best in hopes that it would all work out" - and in the end it didn't. I wonder if anybody has received an apology, its not like it would mean much coming from either of them after they intentionally broke so many hearts and dreams. I have not heard about either of them having any remorse. I have not heard of any apologies that were made publicly or privately.

I am still waiting for the blame to be passed along to the players, the fans, or to people like myself that saw Kevin for the piece of crap that he is, was, and always will be.

In the end, we still have the game that we all love. We should love it with or without the money. They killed the hopes and dreams - but he can't kill the love that we all have for this game. In the end, that is what we need to bring our sport into the mainstream.

 

[macguy]

Jim,
I believe that you have effectively and appropriately offended both Kevin and Deno by having the audacity to shed light on the truth about a business entity that was specifically designed with the intention of deceiving everybody that believed in it.

Over the past year I have sort of warmed up to the "Prophet of Doom" moniker that KT so eloquently bestowed upon me. KT told others how "enthusiastically negative" I was while at the same time he and Deno knew all along that I saw right through both of them. Their only defense was to tell people not to listen to myself and others that were quick to see this as another con game KT was playing.

Money, as well as the promise of money can do a lot of things to a person's thinking. Peope like Kevin prey upon the hopes and dreams of those that are wishing for things to get better. He promises everything that he knows you are wishing for - he markets these dreams to you in the form of memberships and products - then he disappears. I sadly watched while one by one my friends bought into the confidnece scheme hook line and sinker. They would tell me that they knew about KT's past, but they were "praying for the best in hopes that it would all work out" - and in the end it didn't. I wonder if anybody has received an apology, its not like it would mean much coming from either of them after they intentionally broke so many hearts and dreams. I have not heard about either of them having any remorse. I have not heard of any apologies that were made publicly or privately.

I am still waiting for the blame to be passed along to the players, the fans, or to people like myself that saw Kevin for the piece of crap that he is, was, and always will be.

In the end, we still have the game that we all love. We should love it with or without the money. They killed the hopes and dreams - but he can't kill the love that we all have for this game. In the end, that is what we need to bring our sport into the mainstream.

There will be no blaming or excuses or anything else anymore. Any comments directed at KT is shouting in the wind, he isn't listening anymore or even cares. This whole thing is a distant memory, just yesterdays news. I hope you don't think they spend their days worrying about anybody on this board or in the pool world period. It's a business deal gone bad over and done and they have moved on.. Will everybody get paid all they have coming, who knows, maybe, maybe not.
This forum doesn't serve any purpose anymore, KT has left the building.

 

[Bozo]

I do not think he left the building. He is keeping his website going and making payments. Perhaps he is thinking of a championship tournament on a smaller scale. I would like to see that.
The people leaving the building are the horribly negative people who sadly have no place to hang their hat now. I am happy they are gone.

 

[macguy]

I do not think he left the building. He is keeping his website going and making payments. Perhaps he is thinking of a championship tournament on a smaller scale. I would like to see that.
The people leaving the building are the horribly negative people who sadly have no place to hang their hat now. I am happy they are gone.

Your error is in the use of the word "He" in your post. There is no "He" anymore just the fragments of what they did that are yet to be wrapped up. The "He" you refer to is long gone and no longer interested. The "He" is in the book business, the pool thing was just a very bad business mistake that they have moved away from. I would say this also includes Dino. I doubt the IPT has any significance to him either, Dino is now just a member of the company and has some job relating to the book selling.

You are looking at the left overs of what they did and dreaming it is going to somehow come back. The problem is, why should it? Why should they spend another minute even thinking about it when they have other very lucrative interests? The answer is simple, there is on reason. You seem to want to give KT credit for all he did for pool from your past posts and that's fine. Some Players did make some money and people had some fun watching and talking about the tournaments. You need now to give him the same credit for being smart enough to not make the same mistake again and venture into something he knows nothing about.

I am pretty sure he gags on the word pool now. He telegraphed his real feelings way back with his comments about the players after the KOTH tournament. This was the very first tournament and he already had developed a hatred for them and you didn't have to read between the lines, he pretty much came out and said it. KT may have actually left the building long before many realized it. Your chasing a mirage now I'm afraid. To get back to the original gist of your post though, Why do you think he should have any further interest? You must have some basis for your comments beyond blind faith.

 

[oneballeddie]

I See It a Little Differently

I don't think he has "left the building" or lost interest in pool. I think he still has a pipe dream. Otherwise there is absolutely no explanation for any of these payments made after the Reno default. He could have simply closed it down, filed bankruptcy, and fielded the handful (if that many) lawsuits. These payments are certainly not coming from some deep moral obligation. And there's no way that the revenue trickle from website sales of balls, chalk and burlap could support even a fraction of the $1.3M payouts so far plus the IPT's running expenses since September. All he did was put a clamp on the gush of red ink that was going to lose about $30M before the end of 2007 had they stayed on the original plan. But the bleeding continues!

Therefore, I think this is an ego situation. His and Mike's and their entourage's dream of high action pool on mainstream media capturing the public interest, etc. It's the only explanation for continuing to fund this. I think he really thinks he can make a comeback. I for one would like to see him give it a try.

 

[worriedbeef]

I don't think he has "left the building" or lost interest in pool. I think he still has a pipe dream. Otherwise there is absolutely no explanation for any of these payments made after the Reno default. He could have simply closed it down, filed bankruptcy, and fielded the handful (if that many) lawsuits. These payments are certainly not coming from some deep moral obligation. And there's no way that the revenue trickle from website sales of balls, chalk and burlap could support even a fraction of the $1.3M payouts so far plus the IPT's running expenses since September. All he did was put a clamp on the gush of red ink that was going to lose about $30M before the end of 2007 had they stayed on the original plan. But the bleeding continues!

Therefore, I think this is an ego situation. His and Mike's and their entourage's dream of high action pool on mainstream media capturing the public interest, etc. It's the only explanation for continuing to fund this. I think he really thinks he can make a comeback. I for one would like to see him give it a try.

Now that's more along my lines of thinking.

 

[jimmyg]

And there's no way that the revenue trickle from website sales of balls, chalk and burlap could support even a fraction of the $1.3M payouts so far plus the IPT's running expenses since September. But the bleeding continues!

While I do not have special privy to KT's private financial books, I think that you greatly underestimate the monthly income for the IPT over the last several months.

I firmly believe that it is very likely that, after factoring in the income from all revenue sources; monthly membership fees, DVD sales, on demand video fees, also chaulk, balls, t-shirt and an assortment of other product sales, his income greatly exceeds the cost of running his website based business.

And that does not even take into consideration the hundreds of $2K IPT qualifiers that have taken place since the last tournament, and the additional income derived from the advertising placement on the IPT website for Natural Cures.

The real point is that a portion of all this income should, as promised by KT, already be shared by the IPT players. Not used to pay what he already owes them, in my opinion that's pure theivery.

Jim

 

[Takumi4G63]

I really don't understand why people think that in this IPT situation, KT "conned" anyone into anything. I genuinely believe that he loves the game of pool and he really wanted it to succeed. If you watch the instructional videos with Mike Sigel and KT, this seems just undeniably evident. He is even a good player.

But KT f-ed up, big time, by not having the money at the tournament. There is no question about that. I know better than to be deceived by incredibly convincing infomercial people. However, I just think it's a big jump to think that KT planned it this way. He would have made far more money if the tour had succeeded. I think there's no question that he wanted it to succeed, and this is partly because he really loves the game. Although it does not matter much to those players owed money, there seems to be no reason to think he was counting on the payments not coming it. It seems that he was just overly enthusiastic and too much of an optimist. Do you really think he's gained anything with the IPT failure?

I do not mean to sound like a KT fan, but I think that it is just unfair to say he was planning some kind of con with the IPT. Sure, he wanted to make some money but he never wanted it to fail and it seems that he really does love the sport.

 

[Purdman]

In the past I've had my share to say about how I feel about the IPT and it's founder Kevin Trudeau, most of the time being brutally honest, and in hindsight, fairly accurate.

Lately, mainly because of the emotional and financial harm that I've seen inflicted upon so many of the participants and true believers, and also because of the lingering glimmer of desperate hope that still flickers in the eyes of some of the truly nice and respected members of this forum, I have been very silent on the subject.

Overlooking, forgiving, and wanting to continue this one sided, parasitic relationship with KT and the IPT. Begging to be victimized over and over again, like returning to a spouse that beats and abuses his partner. I just couldn't bear to stick another realistic pin into that balloon inflated with bullshit.

Since I am not emotionally, or financially dependent upon the success or failure of the IPT, maybe I can see this situation more clearly than many others. Jay Helfert has stated that he believes that if more payments are made, they should be considered "hush money"; that KT is making payments so that he will not be legally pursued. While that may be partially true, I believe that the reason is much simplier than that.

Not only do I believe that KT, has successfully conned and duped every single IPT player, and most of the pool community, but that he continues to do so on a daily basis.

Every time someone orders a tape, a video on demand, orders a box of IPT chaulk, a set of balls, or one of his new bridges, each and every IPT player gets ripped off anew. And every time a future IPT hopefull puts up his $2K for a "qualifier to nowhere" it adds to the IPT's bottom line. With nothing more than an operating website KT continues to profit from the talent and hard work of all the players that believed in him and his IPT. There are no royalties or profit sharing for the players, as promised. Every single time a product is sold, money is being taken out of the pockets of the players who's talents KT is still selling.

And the insult to injury is that KT is slowly paying off the players with part of the profits that they should be sharing anyhow. But, ironically, the players seem happy to be treated so shabbily, with many begging for even more abuse. As though it's the only game in town, last gas for next 10,000miles.

Maybe some of us have been real lucky, or possibly just better actors, being able to spit in the face of people that have tried to treat us that way. And somehow, almost always, something better has come along. Being able to, not only, move far ahead, but do so holding our heads up very high. Pleading with, and begging KT will not accomplish either.

I, personally, feel that in order for pool to become more acceptable, respectable and move further into mainstream America, KT and people like him cannot be allowed to be associated with it at all.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

Jim

Jim, you are exactly right my friend. "Birds of a feather" is the saying that comes to mind. Do you remember the Biblical story about the Golden Idol? I personally think it has tarnished green, $ ! There are those that still worship it. That is the way of the world. It is very unfortunate that so many are to blind to see. How could anybody put their trust in a man that has nade a fortune bilking the poor, sick and elderly people in our country. He is now selling the diet book, "Everything They Don't Want You To Know About Loseing Weight". He is relentless in his persuit of the Idol.
Thanks for your right on post about The King.
Don (Purdman) Purdy

 

[jay helfert]

I really don't understand why people think that in this IPT situation, KT "conned" anyone into anything. I genuinely believe that he loves the game of pool and he really wanted it to succeed. If you watch the instructional videos with Mike Sigel and KT, this seems just undeniably evident. He is even a good player.

But KT f-ed up, big time, by not having the money at the tournament. There is no question about that. I know better than to be deceived by incredibly convincing infomercial people. However, I just think it's a big jump to think that KT planned it this way. He would have made far more money if the tour had succeeded. I think there's no question that he wanted it to succeed, and this is partly because he really loves the game. Although it does not matter much to those players owed money, there seems to be no reason to think he was counting on the payments not coming it. It seems that he was just overly enthusiastic and too much of an optimist. Do you really think he's gained anything with the IPT failure?

I do not mean to sound like a KT fan, but I think that it is just unfair to say he was planning some kind of con with the IPT. Sure, he wanted to make some money but he never wanted it to fail and it seems that he really does love the sport.

What you say here may well be true. What started out as a dream with lofty goals quickly disintegrated into a "con" of another sort. It became clear that whatever "love" he had for the game, did not extend to the professional players. He used them and took advantage of their hopefullness.

And then he flat out lied to them when it all begun to unravel. If he was in fact so wealthy as he stated on multiple occasions, why didn't he just pay everybody off and say the dream failed? To drag this out, and continue to dangle a carrot in front of the players for months afterwards, was cruel.
If he is paying now, it may be more "fear driven" than anything else. Interpret that as you will.

 

[macguy]

I really don't understand why people think that in this IPT situation, KT "conned" anyone into anything. I genuinely believe that he loves the game of pool and he really wanted it to succeed. If you watch the instructional videos with Mike Sigel and KT, this seems just undeniably evident. He is even a good player.

But KT f-ed up, big time, by not having the money at the tournament. There is no question about that. I know better than to be deceived by incredibly convincing infomercial people. However, I just think it's a big jump to think that KT planned it this way. He would have made far more money if the tour had succeeded. I think there's no question that he wanted it to succeed, and this is partly because he really loves the game. Although it does not matter much to those players owed money, there seems to be no reason to think he was counting on the payments not coming it. It seems that he was just overly enthusiastic and too much of an optimist. Do you really think he's gained anything with the IPT failure?

I do not mean to sound like a KT fan, but I think that it is just unfair to say he was planning some kind of con with the IPT. Sure, he wanted to make some money but he never wanted it to fail and it seems that he really does love the sport.

Maybe not from the start but as things started to fall apart he began a series of lies to the players that can amount to a con. They must of known the first day of the tournament they could not pay yet kept up the lies and it went on from there, to the point of not paying and stalling all backed up with preposterous lies and excuses. He was hurting a lot of people and the lying still never stopped, it hasn't yet. If there was any defense of his intentions in the beginning he erased all that with his later actions.

 

[justnum]

It is healthy to get your emotions out on the subject. However it is productive to take action.

Right now thats what counts, taking action.

Even if your not IPT player, and just a billiard enthusiasts. Several offices and corporate HQ receive millions of letters a year from cranky old woman complaining the music in a store they shop at is offensive. Or a minority complaining how certain advertisements are discriminatory.

An office receiving an overwhelming amount of letters will surely catch the attention of the USPS (some hardworkers I might add, a highly respectable job).

 

[jimmyg]

Jim,
I believe that you have effectively and appropriately offended both Kevin and Deno by having the audacity to shed light on the truth about a business entity that was specifically designed with the intention of deceiving everybody that believed in it.

Over the past year I have sort of warmed up to the "Prophet of Doom" moniker that KT so eloquently bestowed upon me. KT told others how "enthusiastically negative" I was while at the same time he and Deno knew all along that I saw right through both of them. Their only defense was to tell people not to listen to myself and others that were quick to see this as another con game KT was playing. [/COLOR]

Money, as well as the promise of money can do a lot of things to a person's thinking. Peope like Kevin prey upon the hopes and dreams of those that are wishing for things to get better. He promises everything that he knows you are wishing for - he markets these dreams to you in the form of memberships and products - then he disappears. I sadly watched while one by one my friends bought into the confidnece scheme hook line and sinker. They would tell me that they knew about KT's past, but they were "praying for the best in hopes that it would all work out" - and in the end it didn't. I wonder if anybody has received an apology, its not like it would mean much coming from either of them after they intentionally broke so many hearts and dreams. I have not heard about either of them having any remorse. I have not heard of any apologies that were made publicly or privately.

I am still waiting for the blame to be passed along to the players, the fans, or to people like myself that saw Kevin for the piece of crap that he is, was, and always will be.

In the end, we still have the game that we all love. We should love it with or without the money. They killed the hopes and dreams - but he can't kill the love that we all have for this game. In the end, that is what we need to bring our sport into the mainstream.

Thanks for the great response Dave. If I successfully offended only KT and Deno, and also shed some daylight on KT's motives, I consider my post a huge success.

As far as you being anointed by KT as the original "Prophet of Doom", considering the source, I'd wear that title like a Badge of Honor.

As far as ever hearing an apology from KT, not likely, I don't believe that the word even exists to him. But blame being passed on to the players, he's already pointed in that direction, and I'm sure if we hear anything more about the IPT's failure from KT, he'll go much further down that road.

Although I don't think that you want or expect one, you may also be due an apology or two.

Good luck,

Jim