Lack of Websites or even FB for Pro Players

Nick B

This is gonna hurt
Silver Member
I don't start many threads but this topic is close to my heart. Most pro players will often lament about the lack of money and recognition the game we all love provides for them. Poor paying tournaments. Lack of sponsorship. ETC ETC.

Well kids. How about doing the minimum. Have a current Website and/or Facebook page. What does it really take? 30 minutes on Facebook and you have a decent little info page to attract fans and sponsors.

  1. But I'm not computer savy
  2. But I'm always on the road
  3. Who really cares?

Well it takes almost nothing to do. 83 year old grand mothers who have never had a computer figure it out. Got any friends? Got a smart phone? What does it really take? What about doing something for your sponsors other than just taking their money/equipment and putting a patch on your arm.

Other than Fats and Mosconi who is the most known pool player? Answer "The Black Widow" Jeanette Lee. Why? Because she gets the value of promoting yourself. Best playing female...not by a long shot. For marketing she gives the industry the Orange Crush.

The ones who have them and let them go stale is almost as bad. This screams....I DON'T CARE.

OK rant over.

Nick B
 
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StraightPoolIU

Brent
Silver Member
They also need Twiiter and they need to tweet and post regularly and interact with fans. Some players are getting it. Daz has a facebook fan page (note different than personal page) and a twitter and he posts regularly.
 

Nick B

This is gonna hurt
Silver Member
Yes I always forget about Twitter. I'm not a fan of the micro-soundbite but others really like the thing.
 

Bella Don't Cry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't start many threads but this topic is close to my heart. Most pro players will often lament about the lack of money and recognition the game we all love provides for them. Poor paying tournaments. Lack of sponsorship. ETC ETC.

Well kids. How about doing the minimum. Have a current Website and/or Facebook page. What does it really take? 30 minutes on Facebook and you have a decent little info page to attract fans and sponsors.

  1. But I'm not computer savy
  2. But I'm always on the road
  3. Who really cares?

Well it takes almost nothing to do. 83 year old grand mothers who have never had a computer figure it out. Got any friends? Got a smart phone? What does it really take? What about doing something for your sponsors other than just taking their money/equipment and putting a patch on your arm.

Other than Fats and Mosconi who is the most known pool player? Answer "The Black Widow" Jeanette Lee. Why? Because she gets the value of promoting yourself. Best playing female...not by a long shot. For marketing she gives the industry the Orange Crush.

The ones who have them and let them go stale is almost as bad. This screams....I DON'T CARE.

OK rant over.

Nick B

Some players even moan / b!tch about wearing patches.
One thing I learnt whilst at school:
YOU GET NOTHING FOR NOTHING IN THIS WORLD
:thumbup:
 

JAM

Pool and Snooker Railbird
Silver Member
And on the other side of the coin, those who "claim" pro players have no social media skills are the very ones who may not have the skills needed to find the pro players' websites. They are, indeed, everywhere, and most pro players post on a daily basis on FB, Twitter, and Instagram.

There's a reason, of course, why most of them won't post on this forum. The majority of members have such nice things to say about them on a regular basis. It is such a welcoming atmosphere here for the pro player. Why they don't all flock here and take the verbal abuse given on this so-called "pool forum" is, indeed, curious!

Listen to what Jerry Forsyth says on the recent ABR Radio about pro players on AzBilliards website. It just might open your eyes to see the glory. :grin-square:
 

Bella Don't Cry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
And on the other side of the coin, those who "claim" pro players have no social media skills are the very ones who may not have the skills needed to find the pro players' websites. They are, indeed, everywhere, and most pro players post on a daily basis on FB, Twitter, and Instagram.

There's a reason, of course, why most of them won't post on this forum. The majority of members have such nice things to say about them on a regular basis. It is such a welcoming atmosphere here for the pro player. Why they don't all flock here and take the verbal abuse given on this so-called "pool forum" is, indeed, curious!

Listen to what Jerry Forsyth says on the recent ABR Radio about pro players on AzBilliards website. It just might open your eyes to see the glory. :grin-square:

I get what your saying. However in terms of sponsorship and gaining sponsorship deals one requires to promote themselves effectively in a way that drives news, results etc to the masses. This is a major factor! :thumbup:
 

ProZack

Zack's "On the Road" Cue Repair
Silver Member
I am pretty good player and live in the pool world. Lately I have been posting about my pool travels and on Facebook billiard pages and I have a lot of people that are interested in what I do.. Imagine what kind of attention one would get doing it full time..
 

JAM

Pool and Snooker Railbird
Silver Member
I get what your saying. However in terms of sponsorship and gaining sponsorship deals one requires to promote themselves effectively in a way that drives news, results etc to the masses. This is a major factor! :thumbup:

I guess the question needs to be asked: WHO are the marketing to?

Would it be the few hundred people that pay to watch a live stream, or would it be the league players who don't give a hill of beans who Efren or Earl is? Would it be the AzBilliards Discussion Forum members who think they're bums with no jobs and the scum of the Earth?

Pool is a fractured industry in America. For a pro player to market themselves to the few thousand who actually care about professional pool is a fruitless endeavor. As most know, if you're a regular reader of this forum, there is very little monetary value to be a professional pool player in America, not to mention the opportunities to compete. How many professional pool events are there now on American soil? The fact that they have no money, nowhere to compete, makes it impossible for them to travel the globe like our European counterparts. European and Asian players are regarded highly in their countries. In America, again, pro players the punching bags of the American pool culture.

It's not up to the pro player to be the change agent to save American pool. That ship sailed a long time ago when the so-called "governing body of American pool," the BCA, removed professional pool from their interests.

Professional pool is a sinking ship in America, sad to say, and I'm one of the few proponents and enthusiasts. There's nothing to market to here in America when it comes to professional pool. The pay-per-view numbers tell it all.
 

Jerry Forsyth

Well-known member
We try to help with this subject a bit. If you click on the "PEOPLE" tab at the top of the front page you will come to a page that asks you to search the player database. For example, if you type in "Archer" there you will go to a page that lists Johnny Archer. If there were other players with that last name they would be found there as well. Then you just click on Johnny's name and you can see his entire history, including the tournaments he has played in for many years, how much he won in each, the player list and payouts for each event, a list of his sponsors and his biography. It is a player "home page" and there are over 16,000 of them on AZB. We are still building them out and they are far from complete (this takes some time to do) but there is already a lot of info up there.

If more people would utilize this feature it would help the players with sponsors as it gives the sponsors just a little bit more exposure and every little bit helps. Check out the page on Reyes and you will be amazed at his list of accomplishments. Same for Strickland, Fisher, Corr, et al.
 

Bella Don't Cry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I guess the question needs to be asked: WHO are the marketing to?

Would it be the few hundred people that pay to watch a live stream, or would it be the league players who don't give a hill of beans who Efren or Earl is? Would it be the AzBilliards Discussion Forum members who think they're bums with no jobs and the scum of the Earth?

Pool is a fractured industry in America. For a pro player to market themselves to the few thousand who actually care about professional pool is a fruitless endeavor. As most know, if you're a regular reader of this forum, there is very little monetary value to be a professional pool player in America, not to mention the opportunities to compete. How many professional pool events are there now on American soil? The fact that they have no money, nowhere to compete, makes it impossible for them to travel the globe like our European counterparts. European and Asian players are regarded highly in their countries. In America, again, pro players the punching bags of the American pool culture.

It's not up to the pro player to be the change agent to save American pool. That ship sailed a long time ago when the so-called "governing body of American pool," the BCA, removed professional pool from their interests.

Professional pool is a sinking ship in America, sad to say, and I'm one of the few proponents and enthusiasts. There's nothing to market to here in America when it comes to professional pool. The pay-per-view numbers tell it all.

I agree with most of your many points.
The world is the largest object anyone of us humans will ever encounter, therefore we must embrace it. Could American Pro Pool players do more to embrace the world's pool communities - YES they could; but most instead choose not too...
Let's face it - The world family of 'American Pool' could do more to reach and embrace larger market sectors...
:thumbup:
 

Bella Don't Cry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We try to help with this subject a bit. If you click on the "PEOPLE" tab at the top of the front page you will come to a page that asks you to search the player database. For example, if you type in "Archer" there you will go to a page that lists Johnny Archer. If there were other players with that last name they would be found there as well. Then you just click on Johnny's name and you can see his entire history, including the tournaments he has played in for many years, how much he won in each, the player list and payouts for each event, a list of his sponsors and his biography. It is a player "home page" and there are over 16,000 of them on AZB. We are still building them out and they are far from complete (this takes some time to do) but there is already a lot of info up there.

If more people would utilize this feature it would help the players with sponsors as it gives the sponsors just a little bit more exposure and every little bit helps. Check out the page on Reyes and you will be amazed at his list of accomplishments. Same for Strickland, Fisher, Corr, et al.

Just a suggestion Jerry:
Perhaps by moving this people button to the left next to the 'home' button would attract more views. Also changing the name from 'people' which is generic to 'players'.
After all you've all taken so much time to put this together.
Just a thought...
:thumbup:
 

Nick B

This is gonna hurt
Silver Member
JAM,
I get what you are saying. If I was a pro player I would treat AZB Forum like nuclear power plant. Useful but I wouldn't want to live in it. Between the trolls and "groupies" it's tough to fade. Guys like Charlie Williams probably do it best. They get out their message and run away. Irritating but effective. My comments were directed towards dedicated websites and social media. Not the forums.

I have met Jayson Shaw and he's a nice smart young man so I will pick on him. Last week I watched the SVB / JS challenge match and noticed Jason was playing with a new cue. Google is my friend and I discovered that he has no website but does do FB. Off I go. A few photos. Not much else. Last posting Feb 13th. He mentions his sponsors but not much else. How long does it take? Whip out your phone and snap a couple of photos. "Here is my NEW LUCASI LJS-XXX...love it...hits a ton...thank you Lucasi" Total cost...zero. He could get it done while his opponent racks the balls. I hate to pick on Jayson but he's still better than most.

Now the older pros I understand but they all have friends. They can set up a FB page. From there it's easy. If you can play poker or watch porn online you can figure out FB (let's be clear...this is not a backhanded dig at Keith).

Nick
 

JAM

Pool and Snooker Railbird
Silver Member
JAM,
I get what you are saying. If I was a pro player I would treat AZB Forum like nuclear power plant. Useful but I wouldn't want to live in it. Between the trolls and "groupies" it's tough to fade. Guys like Charlie Williams probably do it best. They get out their message and run away. Irritating but effective. My comments were directed towards dedicated websites and social media. Not the forums.

I have met Jayson Shaw and he's a nice smart young man so I will pick on him. Last week I watched the SVB / JS challenge match and noticed Jason was playing with a new cue. Google is my friend and I discovered that he has no website but does do FB. Off I go. A few photos. Not much else. Last posting Feb 13th. He mentions his sponsors but not much else. How long does it take? Whip out your phone and snap a couple of photos. "Here is my NEW LUCASI LJS-XXX...love it...hits a ton...thank you Lucasi" Total cost...zero. He could get it done while his opponent racks the balls. I hate to pick on Jayson but he's still better than most.

Now the older pros I understand but they all have friends. They can set up a FB page. From there it's easy. If you can play poker or watch porn online you can figure out FB (let's be clear...this is not a backhanded dig at Keith).

Nick

I understand what you are saying, Nick. If there were tens of thousands more fans just like you, then, yes, yes, yes, a pro player, whether old or young, would benefit greatly from reaching out to the public by means of social media.

The target audience in America, which is what I am referring to here, is so small that it seems like it is not worth it for any pro player to expend money and effort into creating a social media vehicle for the fans.

Very few make it in the pool world. The ones who do are industry members who have something to sell. Truth be told, it is the league players who keep pool alive in America, not the pros.

There is no interest in professional pool here in the United States.

Look, I love professional pool since I was introduced to it by Keith, but my pool roots, like Keith's, came from a different subculture of pool. It certainly wasn't being a tournament soldier following the tournament trail. It was a way of life, and those days are gone.

Which brings me to another point worthy of mention. Have you noticed the audiences at pro caliber tournaments? They consist of people like you and me, AzB-ers, the players themselves between rounds, the players' friends and families, the industry members, the industry members' friends and families, and that's about it.

Do you believe if Jayson Shaw created a super-duper website that it would bring more fans to Turning Stone this weekend or the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship next month?

Competing in pool for the pro player may be considered a business, I guess, if you look at it that way, but how much ROI would the pro player receive who makes less than $20,000 a year after taxes and expenses?

Football, basketball, golf, tennis, baseball, they all have pro tours and organizations that take care of the media, and those pro players get paid big bucks. Pro pool players can hardly afford to make it from one tournament to the next.

Since there is no pro tour, it is the industry members, the ones who are currently turning a profit in pool, that need to step up to the plate. If they don't, then they will have no one to sell their products to, unless you count the leagues and amateur players. Very few pool industry members are doing things to promote professional pool, and again, I blame the BCA for this. BIG TIME!
 

Nick B

This is gonna hurt
Silver Member
I follow what your saying but now we are going outside the original scope of my post. We can't boil the ocean here. I'm going to simplify the thing a bit. Any player who can take money or other considerations from a sponsor can do a little more than put a patch on their shirt or vest.

They owe it to:
  • Their sponsors
  • Their Fans
  • The Industry
  • The Sport
  • and most importantly themselves

It's just good business and good sense. JAM I know you get it. I wouldn't be surprised if you were behind some of the profiles on Wikipedia.

Nick

I understand what you are saying, Nick. If there were tens of thousands more fans just like you, then, yes, yes, yes, a pro player, whether old or young, would benefit greatly from reaching out to the public by means of social media.

The target audience in America, which is what I am referring to here, is so small that it seems like it is not worth it for any pro player to expend money and effort into creating a social media vehicle for the fans.

Very few make it in the pool world. The ones who do are industry members who have something to sell. Truth be told, it is the league players who keep pool alive in America, not the pros.

There is no interest in professional pool here in the United States.

Look, I love professional pool since I was introduced to it by Keith, but my pool roots, like Keith's, came from a different subculture of pool. It certainly wasn't being a tournament soldier following the tournament trail. It was a way of life, and those days are gone.

Which brings me to another point worthy of mention. Have you noticed the audiences at pro caliber tournaments? They consist of people like you and me, AzB-ers, the players themselves between rounds, the players' friends and families, the industry members, the industry members' friends and families, and that's about it.

Do you believe if Jayson Shaw created a super-duper website that it would bring more fans to Turning Stone this weekend or the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship next month?

Competing in pool for the pro player may be considered a business, I guess, if you look at it that way, but how much ROI would the pro player receive who makes less than $20,000 a year after taxes and expenses?

Football, basketball, golf, tennis, baseball, they all have pro tours and organizations that take care of the media, and those pro players get paid big bucks. Pro pool players can hardly afford to make it from one tournament to the next.

Since there is no pro tour, it is the industry members, the ones who are currently turning a profit in pool, that need to step up to the plate. If they don't, then they will have no one to sell their products to, unless you count the leagues and amateur players. Very few pool industry members are doing things to promote professional pool, and again, I blame the BCA for this. BIG TIME!
 
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JAM

Pool and Snooker Railbird
Silver Member
I follow what your saying but now we are going outside the original scope of my post. We can't boil the ocean here. I'm going to simplify the thing a bit. Any player who can take money or other considerations from a sponsor can do a little more than put a patch on their shirt or vest.

They owe it to:
  • Their sponsors
  • Their Fans
  • The Industry
  • The Sport
  • and most importantly themselves

It's just good business and good sense. JAM a know you get it. I wouldn't be surprised if you were behind some of the profiles on Wikipedia.

Nick

Yes, I used to do a lot on Wikipedia. At one time, I was full of enthusiasm and actually thought I could make a difference in our pool world.

The majority -- not all -- of pro players don't have sponsors, and those that do, most of the time, receive product.

Yes, they are given a patch to wear when they compete in high-profile events. Of course, since there are less and less high-profile events to compete in, with audiences consisting of people like you and me and families and friends of the pro players, how much exposure will that patch receive? :grin-square:

I'm desparate to find a way to break into the pool world with my offerings, but I can see the ROI after speaking with others who went down that path before me. I can't afford it, and I'm not even a pro player. I cannot afford to stay a week in Norfolk to attend the Open as a fan.

I think from reading your thoughts that you sincerely believe the pro players can effect a change for the better in professional pool in America by spending their time and money in social media avenues. It does seem logical, for sure, in a perfect world.

The fractured pool industry, unfortunately for fans like you and me, is not a perfect world. The industry members are the only ones getting fat, if you can call it that, receiving an ROI. The pro pool players in America are truly struggling.

I am going to be generous and say we have 50 professional-caliber players in the United States. How many of these 50 do you think are sponsored? They're sponsored by themselves and their families, the majority of them. ;)

What's more, now regional tours are banning pro players, prohibiting them from competing in their events.

I wish I could be more optimistic about social media and the American pro players. Maybe things will change, and you can I can hope for the best. :)
 

Hawk

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I guess the question needs to be asked: WHO are the marketing to?


...............Pool is a fractured industry in America. For a pro player to market themselves to the few thousand who actually care about professional pool is a fruitless endeavor. .........
................ European and Asian players are regarded highly in their countries. In America, again, pro players the punching bags of the American pool culture.


.................. There's nothing to market to here in America when it comes to professional pool. The pay-per-view numbers tell it all.


Even if it is not worth the effort to market themselves to the small American audience, by promoting on the web the pro player can market themselves in areas where pool is popular. Major sponsors want major visibility regardless of where the customer lives.
 

JAM

Pool and Snooker Railbird
Silver Member
Even if it is not worth the effort to market themselves to the small American audience, by promoting on the web the pro player can market themselves in areas where pool is popular. Major sponsors want major visibility regardless of where the customer lives.

I see your point. :)

Look at how much the pay-per-view livestreamers are making in their regions. I'd venture to guess not as much as they'd like. ;)
 

daphish1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pro pool players have it bad. They have world class talent in a sport that most people don't care about. Tournaments don't pay deep enough for pros to make a livable wage because there isn't enough sponsorship money.

There's hardly any sponsorship money because there is no market for viewers who are going to buy the sponsors products. How much money would a big sponsors like Budweiser throw to a PPV stream that had 1,000 viewers? I'm guessing not too much.

Pool players need to create a market for their product if they want sponsors to give them money for their world class talent. They are most likely to be successful promoting themselves versus waiting for someone else to do it. Jeannette Lee has done well promoting herself. There's no reason a charismatic male pro could not do the same thing. Probably make a better living then waiting for the next PBA or whatever acronym they select for the next association.
 

Bella Don't Cry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pool players need to create a market for their product if they want sponsors to give them money for their world class talent. They are most likely to be successful promoting themselves versus waiting for someone else to do it. Jeannette Lee has done well promoting herself. There's no reason a charismatic male pro could not do the same thing. Probably make a better living then waiting for the next PBA or whatever acronym they select for the next association.

TRUE DAT. :thumbup:
 

Nick B

This is gonna hurt
Silver Member
Spot on but I don't want to see Dennis Hatch do this.

july11%20jen1big.jpg


Nick

Pro pool players have it bad. They have world class talent in a sport that most people don't care about. Tournaments don't pay deep enough for pros to make a livable wage because there isn't enough sponsorship money.

There's hardly any sponsorship money because there is no market for viewers who are going to buy the sponsors products. How much money would a big sponsors like Budweiser throw to a PPV stream that had 1,000 viewers? I'm guessing not too much.

Pool players need to create a market for their product if they want sponsors to give them money for their world class talent. They are most likely to be successful promoting themselves versus waiting for someone else to do it. Jeannette Lee has done well promoting herself. There's no reason a charismatic male pro could not do the same thing. Probably make a better living then waiting for the next PBA or whatever acronym they select for the next association.
 
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