last 2 and the break

[Beware_of_Dawg]

The wild 6 means that any time you hit a legal shot and the 6 goes in you win. I have never heard of using a wild ball as a ball you can use to get back in line or anything like that. Wild just means you don't have to call it. You still have to hit the lowest ball on the table on every shot though.

BVal

No, that would not be logical given the weight scale, read my explainations above.

Wild... same as a wild card playing poker, it can be anything, any number. It is wild, technically it is always the lowest number on the table. So you can assign any number (below it's actual number) to it and continue your run.

Make sense?

EDIT: "Wild" balls are different from giving "outs" like 6 out, etc. also different from giving "lasts" like last 3, etc. Wild balls just alow you to break sequence without penalty to continue a run. After you sink the wild ball you have to get back in sequence & finish to the 9. BUT: say you have the "wild 7" you shoot the 1 in and the 7 ball is lined up to combo the 9 in... you can then shoot your "wild 7" pocket the 9... you win.

 

[PetToilet]

No, that would not be logical given the weight scale, read my explainations above.

Wild... same as a wild card playing poker, it can be anything, any number. It is wild, technically it is always the lowest number on the table. So you can assign any number (below it's actual number) to it and continue your run.

Make sense?

EDIT: "Wild" balls are different from giving "outs" like 6 out, etc. also different from giving "lasts" like last 3, etc.

That's a very interesting method of giving weight, I had never heard of it before. It's the only way that handicap chart makes logical sense.

Has anyone ever played this way? I'm interested in trying it out as it seems like a might lighter spot then the 8 out or 7 out that I had been giving out and really shouldn't have.

 

[BVal]

No, that would not be logical given the weight scale, read my explainations above.

Wild... same as a wild card playing poker, it can be anything, any number. It is wild, technically it is always the lowest number on the table. So you can assign any number (below it's actual number) to it and continue your run.

Make sense?

EDIT: "Wild" balls are different from giving "outs" like 6 out, etc. also different from giving "lasts" like last 3, etc. Wild balls just alow you to break sequence without penalty to continue a run. After you sink the wild ball you have to get back in sequence & finish to the 9. BUT: say you have the "wild 7" you shoot the 1 in and the 7 ball is lined up to combo the 9 in... you can then shoot your "wild 7" pocket the 9... you win.

I understand what you are say I have just never ever heard of it being played that way.

I have gambled with some A players and in one case I was given the wild 8 and in the another I was given the wild 7. In both matches I had to pocket the balls in order but if I played a legal shot and my wild ball went in I won. I was NEVER allowed to play the wild ball out of order and keep shooting nor have I ever heard of it being played that way. If two players agree to play it that way then that is fine. I have just never heard of it ever.

BVal

 

[Beware_of_Dawg]

That's a very interesting method of giving weight, I had never heard of it before. It's the only way that handicap chart makes logical sense.

Has anyone ever played this way? I'm interested in trying it out as it seems like a might lighter spot then the 8 out or 7 out that I had been giving out and really shouldn't have.

I think it's a very good way to give some weight and yes... I got that chart directly from the "strokers" website. Strokers is a big hall here in Florida. They use it to give weight in there handicapped 9 ball tourneys.

 

[FeltMaster]

No, that would not be logical given the weight scale, read my explainations above.

Wild... same as a wild card playing poker, it can be anything, any number. It is wild, technically it is always the lowest number on the table. So you can assign any number (below it's actual number) to it and continue your run.

Make sense?

EDIT: "Wild" balls are different from giving "outs" like 6 out, etc. also different from giving "lasts" like last 3, etc.

I have not seen weight given in this manner, a "wild" ball can be made at anytime during the rack either at it's time in rotation or by a legal hit on the object ball that in turn pockets the wild ball. This means you won the rack. I have never seen the "wild" ball played "poker " style.
At least not in my parts.

 

[Beware_of_Dawg]

I understand what you are say I have just never ever heard of it being played that way.

I have gambled with some A players and in one case I was given the wild 8 and in the another I was given the wild 7. In both matches I had to pocket the balls in order but if I played a legal shot and my wild ball went in I won. I was NEVER allowed to play the wild ball out of order and keep shooting nor have I ever heard of it being played that way. If two players agree to play it that way then that is fine. I have just never heard of it ever.

BVal

What your describing above is not "wild" it's "out" you were getting the "8 out" & "7 out"... meaning you legally pocket the 8/7 your "out" you win.

WILD= as I've described
OUT= you legally pocket that ball (or the 9) your out (win)
LAST= say you have "last 3"... once you have made the first 6 in order you pocket any of the "last 3" remaining balls, you win.

a "wild" ball can be made at anytime during the rack either at it's time in rotation or by a legal hit on the object ball that in turn pockets the wild ball. This means you won the rack. I have never seen the "wild" ball played "poker " style..

Your also describing "OUT" not wild. You get "7 out" you make the 7 legally you win. the veriable you describe with the combo ball becoming "the wild" (really it becomes the "out") is still a "OUT" game... I combo 2 into the 7... 2 becomes the OUT.

 

[BVal]

What your describing above is not "wild" it's "out" you were getting the "8 out" & "7 out"... meaning you legally pocket the 8/7 your "out" you win.

WILD= as I've described
OUT= you legally pocket that ball (or the 9) your out (win)
LAST= say you have "last 3"... once you have made the first 6 in order you pocket any of the "last 3" remaining balls, you win.

The 7 out means if I pocket the 7,8 or 9 I win. At least where I come from and everywhere I have ever been.

Wild means you don't have to call it but still have to play a legal shot on every shot.

BVal

 

[BryanBpool]

The wild 6 means that any time you hit a legal shot and the 6 goes in you win. I have never heard of using a wild ball as a ball you can use to get back in line or anything like that. Wild just means you don't have to call it. You still have to hit the lowest ball on the table on every shot though.

BVal

This is correct.

WILD BALLS

A wild ball is just like the 9 ball. If that ball is pocketed legally, by hitting the lowest number first, that game is won.

EX: I have the wild 6, I shoot the 1-6 combo and the 6 goes, I won.
EX: I have the wild 6, I shoot the 1,2,3,4,5, then the 6, i win.

You cannot shoot a ball out of order. I have never seen or heard of 9 ball being played that way.

CALL BALLS

these are the same as wild balls, except the ball in pocket shot must be called. If a CALL BALL is made, but not called, I would continue shooting, but not win the game.

AND OUT

This is how I have always played this.

The 7-Out would indicate that the 7,8,and 9 are wild balls and if any are shot in legally, the game is won.

The 6-out would be the 6,7,8,9 are all wild.

EX: I have the 7 out, I break, make the 7, I win
EX: I have the 7 out, I shoot the 1-8 combo, I win

LAST BALLS

The last 3 would indicate that if I shoot any of the LAST 3 remaining balls on the table, I win.

EX: I break making the 7. I do not win the game. Once I shoot out the 1,2,3,4,5, the 6,8,9 are remaining. If i legally pocket the 6 now. I win.



-Bryan


The wild 6 handicap on that chart should be the wild 8.

Otherwise it seems right.

Wild 8 is less weight than the Wild 7 is less weight than the Wild 7 and the Last 2 is less weight than the Wild 7 and Wild 8 (also referred to as the 7 out)










-----------------------------------

 

[Beware_of_Dawg]

The 7 out means if I pocket the 7,8 or 9 I win. At least where I come from and everywhere I have ever been.

Wild means you don't have to call it but still have to play a legal shot on every shot.

BVal

Terminology may be different in different places. People grow up saying it different ways (good reason to clarify when gambling with different people/places) But again what your saying above is not "wild" nor is it "out" it is "last" as in "last 3"... pocket any of the last 3 balls (any order) (after making first 6 in order) you win. Now, if you don't have to make the the first 6 in order first... say you just could hit the 1 into the 7,8 or 9 (and pocket it) you win... that would be "outs" so you would be getting the 7,8,9 OUT"

WILD= as I've described
OUT= you legally pocket that ball (or the 9) your out (win)
LAST= say you have "last 3"... once you have made the first 6 in order you pocket any of the "last 3" remaining balls, you win.

I'm not agrueing, I don't know the terminology used in different places by different people but doesn't the above definiitions make the most sense?

 

[KillerCane]

wild 6 means the player doesnt have to call that ball.
call 7 8 menas you have to call the pocket those ball get dropped in. you still shoot the 6 in the original order.

 

[Beware_of_Dawg]

wild 6 means the player doesnt have to call that ball.
call 7 8 menas you have to call the pocket those ball get dropped in. you still shoot the 6 in the original order.

bingo on the "wild", and yeah "call 7-8" I assume means you call the pocket the 7 or 8 is going in and pocket it (Legally) you win? If so, Call is the same as "out" but with "out" you don't have to call the pocket the ball is going into just pocket it (legally) and win. Guess "call" just insures no random carom/slopping of your out balls (winning balls)

 

[BVal]

Whatever terms you want to use, I have never in all my years of playing, reading or hearing about pool heard of using a ball like a "joker's wild" that can be pocketed at anytime and you can continue to shoot. Every spot in gambling I have ever heard of still requires you to make a legal shot. If you pocket a ball out of sequence or not legally it is a foul.

BVal

From reading some of the other responses I am not the only one who has never ever heard of that either.

 

[Beware_of_Dawg]

Whatever terms you want to use, I have never in all my years of playing, reading or hearing about pool heard of using a ball like a "joker's wild" that can be pocketed at anytime and you can continue to shoot. Every spot in gambling I have ever heard of still requires you to make a legal shot. If you pocket a ball out of sequence or not legally it is a foul.

BVal

From reading some of the other responses I am not the only one who has never ever heard of that either.

LIke I said, I don't do much gambling... My firsthand knowledge is nada I have researched what each term meant (so I didnt look like a a$$clown if faced with a gamling situation, Which I have been trying to get myself into (while not getting raped) and while I found alot of conflicting information on terminology, and after processing all the conflicting info/terms the definitions I offered held the most logic. As far as various handicappeds/weight offered. If my interpretations of what Ive seen/read/processed as logical are incorrect, I apologize.

Trying my best to help and at the same time get my arms around all these terms too.

 

[ArtOfTheCue]

There is a big difference between the 7 out and the last three.

7 out -- the player wins if they legally pocket the 7 ball or any higher numbered ball on the table at any time in the game, so the 7, 8, and 9 are their money balls.

last 3 -- the player wins if they legally pocket any of the last three balls left on the table, so you don't know what their money balls are until 6 balls are already down, and they cannot win the game before that point. The last three could end up being the 4, 7, and 9 in a screwy rack where there are a lot of combinations, caroms, and other balls sunk out of order.

Also, as a player who's usually on the receiving end of the spot, I like to make the stipulation that my money ball gets spotted if the other player pockets it on an illegal shot. I've gotten to the point in my game where the people I play know it's dangerous to give me ball in hand, so they don't do this, but I've seen good players intentionally foul and sink a weaker player's money ball early if it's near a pocket and the other guy tends to flail around, hit hard, and get lucky.

And going back to spotting the breaks, I disagree that it's meaningless against a non-runout player. It depends on the person, and I'm a good example of someone you don't want to give that spot to. I only break and run a 2-3 racks over the course of a month, mostly because I have problems with keeping my focus on long runs. I can make 5 or six no problem, though, and my break is very strong, as is my safety play (no bs here -- I have a few much better players who have taken breaking lessons from me at their request). If I have all the breaks, I will make a ball and stick the cue in the middle of the table the majority of the time, and from there I can run a few to get to the best safety opportunity. I'll freeze my opponent to a ball and leave the object ball on the other end of the table, and if they give me ball in hand with 3-4 balls left, I'm usually out. If they make a good hit, they usually don't leave me blind because I've put them in a position where they have to find an unorthodox kicking route with a lot fo distance.

I'd take all the breaks over the 7 ball or the last two any day of the week against anyone who plays within a few balls of me, because I'm in control of the table and that spot enables me to take advantage of the best areas of my game.

 

[BVal]

LIke I said, I don't do much gambling... My firsthand knowledge is nada I have researched what each term meant (so I didnt look like a a$$clown if faced with a gamling situation, Which I have been trying to get myself into (while not getting raped) and while I found alot of conflicting information on terminology, and after processing all the conflicting info/terms the definitions I offered held the most logic. As far as various handicappeds/weight offered. If my interpretations of what Ive seen/read/processed as logical are incorrect, I apologize.

Trying my best to help and at the same time get my arms around all these terms too.

Hey dawg. It's all good brotha. I am sorry if I came across the wrong way. I had just never heard of that before. There are a lot of conflicting terms but one of them should never be a true WILD (can be pocketed at any time) ball.

BVal

 

[Beware_of_Dawg]

Hey dawg. It's all good brotha. I am sorry if I came across the wrong way. I had just never heard of that before. There are a lot of conflicting terms but one of them should never be a true WILD (can be pocketed at any time) ball.

BVal

It's cool my man, I'm not offended. I'm trying to get my arms around this crap. I was just reading that chart again, it makes no sense at all if the "wild" balls are not played as I figured they were and they are actually outs or anytime winners... let me process this information for a minute.

Way my mind is getting around it right now, the way I explained to offer weights/handicaps (wilds) makes MUCH more sense...

excuse me...

[activate logic/problem solving functions] processing, processing, processing.....

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

Pure Hooey

Im not much of a gambler and don't know that I understand what weight I should be asking for against (I'm a B) an A or OPen in alot of cases... someone here should make a graph... explaining.

Here's on I found which is used to handicap tournaments...

By beware_of_dawg at 2008-12-18

I'm with BVal on this. I've never heard of a wild ball you can legally hit out of rotation.

I would think this chart's last entry is an error, but I (with all due respect to it's author & Dawg) think it's crap anyway.

I'll empty out on the A+ player giving a C player the wild 7 and wild 8, and so would the universe. Not a fair fight. Maybe the author is a C player and we can test this out?

Interesting thread though nonetheless! :thumbup:

Thanks for putting it out there Dawg.

 

[Beware_of_Dawg]

I'm with BVal on this. I've never heard of a wild ball you can legally hit out of rotation.

I would think this chart's last entry is an error, but I (with all due respect to it's author & Dawg) think it's crap anyway.

Interesting thread though nonetheless! :thumbup:

Thanks for putting it out there Dawg.

All good, as I mentioned... I got it directly off the website from Strokers Pool Hall here in Tampa... a very well know hall.

http://www.mystrokers.com/tournaments-monday.asp

I read it through and what I proposed as what they must mean by wildballs (based on logic combined with the charts values) had to be what it meant because if it means what some others have mentioned about these wilds being "outs" when legally pocketed seems like crap...

Im really thinking this through and I think the way I explained it earlier in the thread would appear to be a more fair way of offering some wieght/handicapping to lower level players... (still mentally processing this) and I'm half tempted to set up a tourney using that exact formatting. I have a room owner begging me to set up a weekly tourney anyway. Hell why not try it?

 

[Beware_of_Dawg]

PLEASE READ THIS WHOLE POST, Think it trhough and please comment

By beware_of_dawg at 2008-12-18

Ok, Ive processed this in my head...

Ok, Im looking at this thing and there is just no way Im wrong about how this is to be interpreted...

Let's use a couple examples which have to back the explanation I gave...

Start at the bottom with a "C" according to the cross reference a "B" has to give the "C" the wild 6. Yet a B+(better player) gives the C the wild 7. So a C has to get to the 7 to beat a B+, yet a C only has to get to the 6 on a B. That can't make sense...

and why would a A give the C the wild 7 and last two? the last 2 don't come into play... he get to and makes the 7 according to some of you it's over at 7... why give last 2??? according to ur expalinations there will never BE a last two.. once the 7 is gone, according to what U say it's over. So why would they be giving the last two??? Furthermore, a A gives a C wild 7... yet a C gets wild 6 from a B???

So, if what your saying is accurate C has to get to 7 on a "A" yet only 6 on a "B" that can't be. Why would there be a "last 2" on any of these??? according to wut ur saying... there is never a last 2. I'm virtually 100% correct that my logic of how this handicapping/weight system work is absolutely correct... whether or not anyone has heard of or used what I described as this wild ball wieght system it not only has to be correct...

it also makes sense and looks like a terrific way to handicap... if it is as I describe (again, just cut & paste from earlier in the thread) doesn't it make sense and look like a good way to handicap?

Think the B gives C the "wild 6" just means the 6 ball can be used as a wild ball... so C can shoot the 6 anytime...

ie; B shoots 1,2 & 3 and can't get leave on the 4... he could shoot the 6 to get back on the 4 then 5,7,8,9. So just means that ball is "wild" can be shot anytime any of the first 5 are still on the table...

The B+ gives C the higher ball (7) beacuse it's later in the rack therefore hypothetically leaving less balls on the table to run out.

More from earlier...

It doesnt mean you can shoot the 6 in legally and win... that would technically be giving "the last 4"... wild 6 just means you can jump out of sequence anytime in the first 5 balls to shoot the 6 and then jump back into rotation... hence the higher wild is the better since hypothetically you could wait later in the sequence to use your wild ball and have less balls remaining to pocket.

Im not saying this is exactly how many of you have used this "wild ball" definition before... but here in this above sighted system, this has to be exactly how this wild ball system works... and to me, it looks pretty solid for handicapping... not giving too much weight but definetely giving weight...

If what I say above is 100% correct, do you agree/disagree it looks like a fair way to give weight/handicap ?

EDIT*

and futher... given that everyone has heard the the "wild, 8-Out, etc.." used a bunch of different ways... assuming the Wild can/is/should be used as above.... wouldn't it make sense to universally understnd these weight terms as follows...

(wild 6, etc) WILD= as I've described
(8, 9 out, etc) OUT= you legally pocket that ball (or the 9) your out (win)
(last 3, etc..) LAST= say you have "last 3"... once you have made the first 6 in order you pocket any of the "last 3" remaining balls (any order), you win.
(call 7-8, etc) CALL= same as above (OUT definition) but ball & pocket of designated last balls or out balls must be called (no slopping a out ball in)

 

[Drew]

edited out after reading more