When you get a spot in 9 ball / example last 2 and the break. What would that = to games on the wire? just curious. Also when giving this spot does the person getting the spot have to make one of the last 2 balls left on the table? Thanks as always ! are there a with this stuff explaining spots in nine ball? love to see it.
last 2 and the break
- Thread starter I'mdoingit
- Start date
Games on the wire???
I am not sure how it = games on the wire. guess that would depend on how long the race was and the talent of the player you are matching up with. When you are giving the last two (atleast here) the opponent would have to shoot one of the last two. ex. if the nine and the six were left on the table they would need to shoot the six to win the game. This is a pretty common spot as people think that if you made the eight on the break or something they would still have the last two, thus making the ball before the nine the money instead of having to shoot all the way out. IMO the last two is a sucker spot. sounds like alot but i would much rather give the last two than give the wild eight.
I am not sure how it = games on the wire. guess that would depend on how long the race was and the talent of the player you are matching up with. When you are giving the last two (atleast here) the opponent would have to shoot one of the last two. ex. if the nine and the six were left on the table they would need to shoot the six to win the game. This is a pretty common spot as people think that if you made the eight on the break or something they would still have the last two, thus making the ball before the nine the money instead of having to shoot all the way out. IMO the last two is a sucker spot. sounds like alot but i would much rather give the last two than give the wild eight.
yes
the last 2 and the break, a lot better than a game!!! and yes you have to make one of the last 2 ball to win, but it is still a better spot.:thumbup:
the last 2 and the break, a lot better than a game!!! and yes you have to make one of the last 2 ball to win, but it is still a better spot.:thumbup:
I feel the same way as Tex. I would rather give the last two before the 8. In "Playing off the Rail" Toni explains that its the other way around. If you give up ball weight the 8 is weaker because you can snap the 8 in your self or get it off the table before they get a chance to shot at it, those taking away the weight you have given them. Despite this I feel the last two is the weaker spot.
Anyways the last 2 and the break to me is equivalent to 2-3 games on the wire in a race to 7 against a moderately good player.
Anyways the last 2 and the break to me is equivalent to 2-3 games on the wire in a race to 7 against a moderately good player.
I agree the last two is a sucker bet! Now giving the breaks in a totally different game. I personally would never give the breaks.
Depends on who you playing !
If the guy is way better than you & you can hardly beat him in games outright then for sure uit's best to take the break from them..but if that's the case you probally wouldn't win like that anyway...you'd need at least another wild ball...but if you can win say 40% of the games on your own with no spot..then a few games on the wire in like a race to 9 would be better.
If the guy is way better than you & you can hardly beat him in games outright then for sure uit's best to take the break from them..but if that's the case you probally wouldn't win like that anyway...you'd need at least another wild ball...but if you can win say 40% of the games on your own with no spot..then a few games on the wire in like a race to 9 would be better.
It's hard to compare balls on the wire to wild balls and breaks. When I use to donate my Dogtrack para mutual winnings to the pros to learn, I always tried to get a few on the wire + the 8 and the breaks. Sometimes I got lucky that way. Most of the time NOT. Johnnyt
I agree it depends on who your playing.
To explain it a little better. IMO if you are a D player playing a weak or middle C then the break won't matter much but for snaping the 9, as neither of you are going to do much break and runing. The last 2 with those players may be a lot of weight as the C will not get out on the last 2 ball all the time if the position is tough, and they will be prone to making mental errors. Now if your a B playing an A or Oen player the last 2 means close to nothing, maybe 1 game to 9 or 11. But the break is huge as it gives the B total control of the table. I would never give the break up unless I had a lock. Hope this helps, and again it's just my opinion.
Jason
To explain it a little better. IMO if you are a D player playing a weak or middle C then the break won't matter much but for snaping the 9, as neither of you are going to do much break and runing. The last 2 with those players may be a lot of weight as the C will not get out on the last 2 ball all the time if the position is tough, and they will be prone to making mental errors. Now if your a B playing an A or Oen player the last 2 means close to nothing, maybe 1 game to 9 or 11. But the break is huge as it gives the B total control of the table. I would never give the break up unless I had a lock. Hope this helps, and again it's just my opinion.
Jason
Im not much of a gambler and don't know that I understand what weight I should be asking for against (I'm a B) an A or OPen in alot of cases... someone here should make a graph... explaining.
Here's on I found which is used to handicap tournaments...
By beware_of_dawg at 2008-12-18
Here's on I found which is used to handicap tournaments...
By beware_of_dawg at 2008-12-18
I think it really depends... at A level and above, where a look at a makeable ball = win, then 'the last 2' or whatever is less meaningful. By the time someone is on the 3 ball and in control, the rack is theirs.
And giving the breaks in 9 ball to a high level pro who can run out from the break is suicide, but to a low B, strong C? The breaks are actually a disadvantage, as they are less than 50% to get out from the break even if the sink something and have a look at the 1. Therefore giving the breaks becomes a kind of gaff bet designed to dupe a weaker player into thinking he's getting weight when really he's giving some up.
And giving the breaks in 9 ball to a high level pro who can run out from the break is suicide, but to a low B, strong C? The breaks are actually a disadvantage, as they are less than 50% to get out from the break even if the sink something and have a look at the 1. Therefore giving the breaks becomes a kind of gaff bet designed to dupe a weaker player into thinking he's getting weight when really he's giving some up.
Im not much of a gambler and don't know that I understand what weight I should be asking for against (I'm a B) an A or OPen in alot of cases... someone here should make a graph... explaining.
Here's on I found which is used to handicap tournaments...
By beware_of_dawg at 2008-12-18
Am I reading this correctly? A "B" player has to give a "C" player the 6 out? That can't be right. Maybe I'm just reading it wrong.
The Break as a spot
Giving someone all the breaks is a HUGE spot. There is absolutely no way I would give anyone that can run more than three balls consistently all of the breaks. You are giving up control of the game by giving up the break. Let's say you are playing someone that cannot run out from the break but they know safe and have a decent safe game....you are not going to like it. I would play anyone in the world giving me all of the breaks.
Giving someone all the breaks is a HUGE spot. There is absolutely no way I would give anyone that can run more than three balls consistently all of the breaks. You are giving up control of the game by giving up the break. Let's say you are playing someone that cannot run out from the break but they know safe and have a decent safe game....you are not going to like it. I would play anyone in the world giving me all of the breaks.
I agree, something has to be wrong. B+ gives C 7, while a B gives C 6? Shouldn't it be the other way around?
Think the B gives C the "wild 6" just means the 6 ball can be used as a wild ball... so C can shoot the 6 anytime... ie; B shoots 1,2 & 3 and can't get leave on the 4... he could shoot the 6 to get back on the 4 then 5,7,8,9. So just means that ball is "wild" can be shot anytime any of the first 5 are still on the table...
read above. The B+ gives C the higher ball (7) beacuse it's later in the rack therefore hypothetically leaving less balls on the table to run out.
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Spot
I believe the "the wild six" - means if you are getting the "wild 6" as a spot - and you pocket it in rotation or by hitting a legal ball first in any pocket at any time - you win.
Same with the "wild 7" and "wild 8".
The term "wild 6" is used as opposed to the "call 6" which means you have to call the 6 ball and the pocket on a legal shot to win.
The chart is a bit confusing about the "wild 7 or last two". I would personally rather have the wild 7 than the last two anytime. I would also spot the last two much quicker than the wild 7.
I believe the "the wild six" - means if you are getting the "wild 6" as a spot - and you pocket it in rotation or by hitting a legal ball first in any pocket at any time - you win.
Same with the "wild 7" and "wild 8".
The term "wild 6" is used as opposed to the "call 6" which means you have to call the 6 ball and the pocket on a legal shot to win.
The chart is a bit confusing about the "wild 7 or last two". I would personally rather have the wild 7 than the last two anytime. I would also spot the last two much quicker than the wild 7.
No, I don't think so. Read my last post I was prolly typing at the same time as you and you may not have read it. It doesnt mean you can shoot the 6 in legally and win... that would technically be giving "the last 4"... wild 6 just means you can jump out of sequence anytime in the first 5 balls to shoot the 6 and then jump back into rotation... hence the higher wild is the better since hypothetically you could wait later in the sequence to use your wild ball and have less balls remaining to pocket.
Wild ball is as I expalined above and in the last post, "last 2" is different from wild balls. wild balls can be pocketed at any time without penalty or loss of shot but do not have anything to do with winning the game.
The wild 6 means that any time you hit a legal shot and the 6 goes in you win. I have never heard of using a wild ball as a ball you can use to get back in line or anything like that. Wild just means you don't have to call it. You still have to hit the lowest ball on the table on every shot though.
BVal
It is all relative to how you play and how your opponent plays.
There is a guy that I can give the last 5 (Dave). So obviously Dave plays much worse than me. If I play a really good player I often get the break and the last 6. If Dave were to play a really good player they could not give him much more weight than they give me despite the fact that he plays well below me.
Another example is that if two guys are very close one game on the wire may be a huge spot, but at some level even spotting 5 games going to 7 will not make much difference.
There is a guy that I can give the last 5 (Dave). So obviously Dave plays much worse than me. If I play a really good player I often get the break and the last 6. If Dave were to play a really good player they could not give him much more weight than they give me despite the fact that he plays well below me.
Another example is that if two guys are very close one game on the wire may be a huge spot, but at some level even spotting 5 games going to 7 will not make much difference.