Last Cushion Question Ever....I Promise

Okay here's the 9 Rail Test:
https://vimeo.com/125951296

I got between 7 and 8 rails. If the standard for a Diamond is 9 rails and 5 on the up and down test I will probably just keep the cushions and try 760. I'm going to check to make sure the bolts are all tight later tonight.
 
BasementDweller said:
Okay here's the 9 Rail Test:
https://vimeo.com/125951296

I got between 7 and 8 rails. If the standard for a Diamond is 9 rails and 5 on the up and down test I will probably just keep the cushions and try 760. I'm going to check to make sure the bolts are all tight later tonight.
Click to expand...

The only way your going to get the 5 & 9 is with new cloth, your table is playing right like it's suppose to play. The other tables your talking about playing faster than your table does either have new cloth on them, or the rails/cushions are not right.
 
Ok I checked my table, on a nicely hit ball that does not bounce my table goes from 2 diamonds short of 5 rails to 1 diamond over 5 rails. Going around the table I started from the head string dot but otherwise shot like you did, I just touch the 8th rail, all using a red circle cue ball if it matters. My 860 cloth, Artemis cushions, and rail modifications were 2 years old in February. From the video it looks like mine plays about 3 diamonds longer. I do not know if that is a big difference or not.
 
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Thanks again to everyone who chimed in. I think I'm just going to swap out the cloth and probably with 760.

Club Billiards - I don't think the ball hops too bad when I hit it firm but when I go past just hitting it firm and into the hitting it really hard territory I get some hop. I don't think that's too out of the ordinary but I could be wrong.
 
Club Billiards said:
Is it just me, or does the cue hop off that foot rail every time a ball is hit firm into it?
Click to expand...

Hey, theres the guy who did my rails!!!! Thanks Josh, still very happy with the work you did for me. If you were following this thread you saw how many rails my table goes. I want to have new cloth put on this fall, does the 860HR play any different than regular 860? The last thing I want to do is slow the table down, I prefer it to be on the fast side cause most of my competition is on Diamond Bar Boxes. I would like to try the HR because I think the green really shows burn marks compared to blue. My cloth has a lot marks on it for being a home table with 2 1/2 year cloth. I use it a lot, probably 12+ hours a week, but compared to commercial use that is not much I don't think. Obviously I have break marks even though I usually break from cloth when playing alone, but I also have a lot of burn marks around the table, (I don't jump), lines in the rail grooves, and 2 4" areas at the foot rail that I think are from the corner balls when breaking an 8 ball rack. Thank you for any suggestions.
 
Hi Chris,

You are correct (in your Main forum thread) that we have the same table. Is the table new to you, even though it was built in 2000? If you bought it used, since most home tables sit unused, your experience may be similar to mine. I purchased mine new in 1997. I was not happy with the rails after the installation. My intent was to own a table that played like the GC tables in the local pool room. My impression was that the AMF rails were overly stiff and rebounded quite differently (rebounded short) vs. GC. Practicing bank/kick shots was almost a bad idea because what seemed right at home would be way off in the pool room. The other problem (pointed out by Josh (Club Billiards)) was that the cue ball hops up after hitting the rails even though I never experienced the same behavior with the object balls.

Since I worked long hours, I used the table for rest breaks from work and played every day for an hour or more. Since my time in pool rooms was limited back then, I did not try to solve those problems. Eventually after quite a long time of use (maybe a couple of years), the rails appear to have become more elastic and now they feel very similar to the GCs in the local pool room. Also, the amount of hop is substantially reduced or does not happen. Early on, I was able to reduce the hop off the rails by being more fastidious about cleaning (not waxing) the cue ball(s). But it also required the extended use of the table before the rubber broke in (assuming that was what I was experiencing).

I don’t know if I was really experiencing rail break in. I am sure that Glen and Josh would know better. But I am sure that my table’s rails did not play like GC rails after the installation. I am also confident that the table plays very similarly to a GCIII now. Before anybody comments, I understand that having only the cue ball hop suggests that the problem is a dirty cue ball. But my cue ball(s) did not hop up in the local pool room at the time and they do not hop at home now.

I would not be concerned about the amount of action you are getting on your table. It looks fine to me. I am not a particularly hard hitter, so I cannot match the lengths you are achieving. I don’t have any advice for you if you want to make a change. I like Artemis rails on a Diamond and I like SuperSpeed rails on a Gold Crown. As far as I know, I have not tried a K66 Artemis. So I can’t tell you what to expect relative to a stock GC. I would be hesitant about installing Simonis 760. I have only been in one pool room (in the 1980s) that used 760 and they only used it on one table. I would use whatever is in the pool rooms that you frequent, which is usually 860. From my perspective, judging ball speed is more important than achieving raw distance.

My personal problem is that the installer talked me into accepting the pocket openings as delivered, which are way too wide. It is clear that he did not want to do more work than necessary to install the table. I would really like to have the rails and rail beds redone on my table and bring the corner openings down to ~4.5”, but haven’t gotten around to scheduling a time with a competent mechanic.

Have fun with your table.
Greg
 
BasementDweller said:
Thanks again to everyone who chimed in. I think I'm just going to swap out the cloth and probably with 760.

Club Billiards - I don't think the ball hops too bad when I hit it firm but when I go past just hitting it firm and into the hitting it really hard territory I get some hop. I don't think that's too out of the ordinary but I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

That's what I was thinking at first when I watched the straight up and back video. I'm talking more about in the 9 rail attempt when the foot rail is the second rail, the cue ball sounds like it hops off that rail.
 
fastone371 said:
Hey, theres the guy who did my rails!!!! Thanks Josh, still very happy with the work you did for me. If you were following this thread you saw how many rails my table goes. I want to have new cloth put on this fall, does the 860HR play any different than regular 860? The last thing I want to do is slow the table down, I prefer it to be on the fast side cause most of my competition is on Diamond Bar Boxes. I would like to try the HR because I think the green really shows burn marks compared to blue. My cloth has a lot marks on it for being a home table with 2 1/2 year cloth. I use it a lot, probably 12+ hours a week, but compared to commercial use that is not much I don't think. Obviously I have break marks even though I usually break from cloth when playing alone, but I also have a lot of burn marks around the table, (I don't jump), lines in the rail grooves, and 2 4" areas at the foot rail that I think are from the corner balls when breaking an 8 ball rack. Thank you for any suggestions.
Click to expand...

Hey hey! Yeah I'm still here, although I don't peek in as often as I used to. The HR supposedly plays in between 860 and 760, and I hear the blue plays a bit faster than the green since green is a heavier pigment. I have yet to have the opportunity to play on one of each side by side in the same conditions, so I can't quantify those claims, but that's what I've heard.
 
Sealegs50 said:
Hi Chris,

You are correct (in your Main forum thread) that we have the same table. Is the table new to you, even though it was built in 2000? If you bought it used, since most home tables sit unused, your experience may be similar to mine. I purchased mine new in 1997. I was not happy with the rails after the installation. My intent was to own a table that played like the GC tables in the local pool room. My impression was that the AMF rails were overly stiff and rebounded quite differently (rebounded short) vs. GC. Practicing bank/kick shots was almost a bad idea because what seemed right at home would be way off in the pool room. The other problem (pointed out by Josh (Club Billiards)) was that the cue ball hops up after hitting the rails even though I never experienced the same behavior with the object balls.
Click to expand...

I bought the table from a pool room that closed down a couple of years ago. So this table was played on regularly for years. As far as the rails playing true or not -- I think they do but I they just aren't quite as lively as the local Gold Crowns.

The hopping issue isn't something I've ever had a problem with on this table. I know it has now been pointed out by Josh (Club Billiards) but I am hitting the cue ball very firm if not hard on these tests and I imagine there's a point at which the cue ball will hop on any table if you hit it hard enough. I'll have to take another look at that.

Since I worked long hours, I used the table for rest breaks from work and played every day for an hour or more. Since my time in pool rooms was limited back then, I did not try to solve those problems. Eventually after quite a long time of use (maybe a couple of years), the rails appear to have become more elastic and now they feel very similar to the GCs in the local pool room. Also, the amount of hop is substantially reduced or does not happen. Early on, I was able to reduce the hop off the rails by being more fastidious about cleaning (not waxing) the cue ball(s). But it also required the extended use of the table before the rubber broke in (assuming that was what I was experiencing).

I don’t know if I was really experiencing rail break in. I am sure that Glen and Josh would know better. But I am sure that my table’s rails did not play like GC rails after the installation. I am also confident that the table plays very similarly to a GCIII now. Before anybody comments, I understand that having only the cue ball hop suggests that the problem is a dirty cue ball. But my cue ball(s) did not hop up in the local pool room at the time and they do not hop at home now.
Click to expand...

I've never heard of a rail break in period. I guess that's a new one to me but I'm not a table mechanic so I have no clue if this is a common thing or not.

I would not be concerned about the amount of action you are getting on your table. It looks fine to me. I am not a particularly hard hitter, so I cannot match the lengths you are achieving. I don’t have any advice for you if you want to make a change. I like Artemis rails on a Diamond and I like SuperSpeed rails on a Gold Crown. As far as I know, I have not tried a K66 Artemis. So I can’t tell you what to expect relative to a stock GC. I would be hesitant about installing Simonis 760. I have only been in one pool room (in the 1980s) that used 760 and they only used it on one table. I would use whatever is in the pool rooms that you frequent, which is usually 860. From my perspective, judging ball speed is more important than achieving raw distance.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised to hear you say you can't get the same distances I'm getting. So are you only able to get 4 rails on the up and down test? If so, that's pretty slow in my book. I'm pretty sure at this point I'm going to keep the rails and try the 760. I'm confident my rails are slower than the local tables and since I play in a basement that is often cold and/or humid I think the 760 would make my table's speed closer to the GC's that I play on. I have also concluded that I have a much easier time adjusting to a slower table than I do to a faster one so I would rather my table be on the fast side than the slow one.

My personal problem is that the installer talked me into accepting the pocket openings as delivered, which are way too wide. It is clear that he did not want to do more work than necessary to install the table. I would really like to have the rails and rail beds redone on my table and bring the corner openings down to ~4.5”, but haven’t gotten around to scheduling a time with a competent mechanic.

Have fun with your table.
Greg
Click to expand...

I had the same problem with my pockets when I got it home from the pool hall. I also didn't want to recover it at the time. I was lucky because I managed to pull back the cloth on the rails just enough to reface them. I got the pockets down to 4.5" using the 1/4 inch neophrene facings and I was pretty happy with how they turned out. That's about as tight as I will be able to make these pockets without having someone extend the subrails.

There's some pictures of the pockets in this thread if you want to see how they turned out:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=332480&highlight=grand+prix

Thanks for taking the time to give me your thoughts on "our" table.
 
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