Last Nights TAR Match..Best Yet

[CJ Wiley]

The "old school" players would scoff and say "I'm not kicking at my money

How so?

I kick really well, and do okay with jumping so when you push, you'll hardly put me in a terrible spot. If you do, I have no problems with giving it back and making you come with a good shot.

Eliminating one foul relieves a lot of pressure from me, because now I don't have to worry about giving you ball in hand and running out.

I guess if I were ever going to gamble with someone much better than me, I'd probably prefer playing 2 push out rules.

This is where the big misconception comes in to play. To play "Roll Out" you have to know a LOT more about pool to keep up with someone that's a champion player. This is a fact and anyone that's played it like Buddy Hall, Mike Sigel, Earl Stickland, Johnny Archer and Hopkins have will tell you the same thing. It's virtually impossible for a weaker player to out maneuver a champion player playing "Push Out" (Roll Out).

Playing One Foul you might bet lucky with your kicks or the champion player may get unlucky, with Push Out there's NO CHANCE of luck making a difference. The difference will be in the execution of the "Two Way Shots".....this is an incredible skill that has been effectively removed from the game with One Foul Rules.

This is a fact and I do speak from a considerable amount of experience. Wait til you see what happens in the Johnny Archer match where they JUST play roll out after the break. This will make a difference, and if they played "Roll Out" it would make a HUGE difference.

There's not much strategy in One Foul, however, in Two Shot Roll Out there's a tremendous amount of strategy. They are completely different games, and I'm ok with One Foul for tournaments, but in the 80s very few big money matches were played with one foul rules.

The "old school" players would scoff and say "I'm not kicking at my money, are you kidding?" They were right, if you want to prove who the best players is for sure you have to play Roll Out. This is my opinion based on playing tens of thousands of hours with both rules......it's not even close in comparison. 'The Game is my Teacher'

 

[naji]

How so?

I kick really well, and do okay with jumping so when you push, you'll hardly put me in a terrible spot. If you do, I have no problems with giving it back and making you come with a good shot.

Eliminating one foul relieves a lot of pressure from me, because now I don't have to worry about giving you ball in hand and running out.

I guess if I were ever going to gamble with someone much better than me, I'd probably prefer playing 2 push out rules.

I guess if you want to take luck out of 9 or 10 ball might as well play shoot out certain shots designed by the players and both agree on them, like penalty kicks, say 10 per innings, each player shoot the same, this is not only quicker game but skill game, one can make the shots with specific CB position for difficulty levels.

 

[BeiberLvr]

The "old school" players would scoff and say "I'm not kicking at my money, are you kidding?" They were right, if you want to prove who the best players is for sure you have to play Roll Out. This is my opinion based on playing tens of thousands of hours with both rules......it's not even close in comparison. 'The Game is my Teacher'

I know in the past you said you wouldn't want to play Shane right now. What if he agreed to these rules? What about Dennis?

 

[Powerlifter]

Can you imagine the comments/questions from the general public who happen to tune in to watch pool, if there was a mandatory push out rule on tv. Its hard enough for most of them to grasp the concept of 9 ball. All they ever see in their local bar is good ol Straight 8!

It's understandable when two people agree to a gaff. I would so not want to explain this "push out after break" to common people wanting to watch a game of pool.

"Why isn't that guy shooting the one ball,he made a ball on the break?" Well you see there are some guys that can make the same balls on the break every time,because they practiced a lot and the people who can't do that don't like it.

I've been shooting pretty good with a hamburger in my mouth and a cell phone in my other hand as of late. I believe i'm going to make this mandatory for every game after reading this thread. It's just not fair that some people are way above my level,and practice a lot more at it.

 

[peteypooldude]

How so?

I kick really well, and do okay with jumping so when you push, you'll hardly put me in a terrible spot. If you do, I have no problems with giving it back and making you come with a good shot.

Eliminating one foul relieves a lot of pressure from me, because now I don't have to worry about giving you ball in hand and running out.

I guess if I were ever going to gamble with someone much better than me, I'd probably prefer playing 2 push out rules.

On a push out your matching skills with your opponent. I guarantee Archer or CJ moves better than they break. They can execute a skill shot verses hoping they get lucky

 

[John Novak]

So glad that Jcin is the guy running the show. I could always tell he has good common sense.

Pushing out after every break is preposterous if we are focused on making the game more watchable.

I cannot believe Accustats has anything to do with this nonsense.

Before you knock it, and call it nonsense, you should check it out. Pat has had a few Pro matches on stream, under these Arena Rules , and I must say it was an interesting matchup. And, get this, the players actually loved it.

Its much more than just push out after the break.. Here are the Rules of Play http://www.accu-stats.com/arenarules.pdf

 

[BeiberLvr]

On a push out your matching skills with your opponent. I guarantee Archer or CJ moves better than they break. They can execute a skill shot verses hoping they get lucky

Except pushing out isn't a skill shot. It's a knowledge shot.

Playing a strong safe or executing a good kick takes more skill and knowledge.

If you really want to take the luck element out of one foul rules, do the following.

Call shot/call safe. If you miss your shot/or it goes in the wrong pocket and you leave your opponent no direct path to the OB, they have the option of taking the shot or passing it back.

 

[screamingelvis]

I agree with your entire post.....sometimes you have to bring up things like "rolling out after the break" to get to the real "meat" of the issue. The rules or how the game's played will end up having very little to do with the turn around of pool's popularity in the United States.

The Mosconi Cup is a great production, probably the best in history, however, it's still missing something. They really need to do a three week series leading up to the Mosconi Cup that showcases the players and shows them training, eating, drinking, socializing, doing other hobbies, etc.

From what I have learned from our research and development is "the characters are who we watch and cheer for, the game is just a back drop"......we are on the same page and whatever happens to make pool popular again it will consist of making the personalities/characters stand out somehow, some way. Pool, Poker, and Pain is the closest thing we have brewing, maybe it can do it, if not something "reality based" will succeed. imho

Now the cup I watched and when the crowd did get involved was to the dissatisfaction of the players in general the exception being Hatch he either got into it or was pissed, either way it did add something to watch.
We need people / teams and reasons to cheer, talk about a tough event I lived through a weekend of chess torney w/ my son, and that's what I think of a roll out after the break, good for the thinkers not the vocal fans. FWIW JC

 

[CJ Wiley]

wrestling Buddy Hall for the first shot was like wrestling a Grizzly Bear for Steak

Before you knock it, and call it nonsense, you should check it out. Pat has had a few Pro matches on stream, under these Arena Rules , and I must say it was an interesting matchup. And, get this, the players actually loved it.

Its much more than just push out after the break.. Here are the Rules of Play http://www.accu-stats.com/arenarules.pdf

Thanks, John, this gives the right information. Again, I don't have any vested interest, my experience all comes from playing thousands of games of "Push Out" when I was getting my "gambling whiskers wet".

This gives the commentators a great opportunity to change how pool is represented, and express the strategic elements. Both players will be playing EVERY GAME, just like tennis, golf, basketball, football, hockey, poker, etc.

What I like the most is to see how the players go about creating the opportunity for the first shot.....Like Buddy Hall used to say "I like to make em wrestle me for that first shot".....and believe me, wrestling Buddy Hall for the first shot was like wrestling a Grizzly Bear for a Filet Mignon.

Johnny Archer isn't any bargain to "wrestle with" either. 'His Game will be the Teacher' www.cjwiley.com

 

[Icon of Sin]

I think a new thread should be created for the mandatory push out rule and the match that is coming up with it. Enough hijacking (which I am guilty of contributing too) has occurred in this thread.

 

[PocketSpeed11]

Really enjoyed the match I tuned into on Friday.

Just wanted to add that I'd really like to see a TAR with Rodney Morris. I know you attempted to get him on this last time. Morris vs Appleton would be ideal...two entertaining, on and off the table, professionals.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Really enjoyed the match I tuned into on Friday.

Just wanted to add that I'd really like to see a TAR with Rodney Morris. I know you attempted to get him on this last time. Morris vs Appleton would be ideal...two entertaining, on and off the table, professionals.

Morris vs. Appleton would be pretty awesome.

I'd also like to see Justin Hall on at least once. I know he's not as big a name as most guys that are on TAR, but he can definitely play. Maybe Hall vs. Shuff.