Last Nights TAR Match..Best Yet

Can you imagine the comments/questions from the general public who happen to tune in to watch pool, if there was a mandatory push out rule on tv. Its hard enough for most of them to grasp the concept of 9 ball. All they ever see in their local bar is good ol Straight 8!
 
nb92 said:
two examples -- in a long race on the old TAR table with tighter pockets I believe Busti and Archer become a favorite (although small favorite) over SVB because of their ability to control the table during the course of play. I also believe that SVB is a favorite over either under normal conditions in a long set because his break and run over comes their advantages in other areas of the game.
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I think SVB was in a bit of mental slump during those matches. When I watched, he just didn't seem to be as focused as he is now.
 
BeiberLvr said:
I think SVB was in a bit of mental slump during those matches. When I watched, he just didn't seem to be as focused as he is now.
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I think u put the table back with the tight pockets an johnny would beat him again.shanes the better breaker but I think johnny plays better on tables with tight pockets.
 
krychekrowe said:
It's a shame people can't stay on topic. The purpose of this thread was great because it celebrated the two players and the great work the people at TAR do for us pool fans. Threads like this needs to stay clean from off topic thoughts. I understand it might be difficult, but it's boring reading about new rules inside a celebration thread.
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Yeah its funny how a thank you thread turns into a "Whats wrong with pool thread" thanks to CJ's random pontificating once again. But thats OK I guess. I mean this place doesnt have many "I would do things this way and everything would be better except I'm not actually going to do anything that requires time, money, risk or actual work." threads.

So its always good when completely well intentioned threads get hijacked to talk about something so rarely talked about.
 
JCIN said:
Yeah its funny how a thank you thread turns into a "Whats wrong with pool thread" thanks to CJ's random pontificating once again. But thats OK I guess. I mean this place doesnt have many "I would do things this way and everything would be better except I'm not actually going to do anything that requires time, money, risk or actual work." threads.

So its always good when completely well intentioned threads get hijacked to talk about something so rarely talked about.
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Johnny Archer's break on any given day is better than anyone in the world

BeiberLvr said:
Short rack rotation games are run out games.

You want to see safety battles? Watch one pocket.
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The difference between safety battles in one pocket and 9 Ball is 5 pockets, which makes these two scenarios like apples and grapes.

I have no dog in the race with Accu Stats, this subject{roll out after the break} came up because Jason Shaw is playing this format against Johnny Archer and questions about it arose and were discussed. This scenario does make the game more interesting from a commentating perspective.

My opinion is that you will see more situations that are interesting and useful to your own understanding of pool that simply breaking and running out. Johnny Archer's break on any given day is better than anyone in the world, so thinking Johnny wants changes because of his break is ludicrous.

I do think the break should allow you to keep control over the table so you can require your opponent to "Push Out" first. Whoever pushes out is at a 10-20% disadvantage playing this format....so you DO NOT want to be the player that must push out.
 
Icon of Sin said:
I never said he is a bad breaker. Actually I said he can crush them in a previous post and agreed with another poster about him probably having the better break, but there was a recent thread were Johnny wanted to play Dechaine with the mandatory push rule. This is a rule that Johnny is throwing out there.
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I dont think there is anything more to it than the fact that JA entered the game when push-out was still played, while the others mentioned only are accustomed to the possibility being aafter the break only.
 
CJ Wiley said:
I do think the break should allow you to keep control over the table so you can require your opponent to "Push Out" first. Whoever pushes out is at a 10-20% disadvantage playing this format....so you DO NOT want to be the player that must push out.
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Ok... so you break and make a ball and you can make your opponent push?

Because the way you are saying, you would hope you break dry so your opponent has to push. If that is the strategy you are going to see some even more lack-luster breaks.
 
that would make Bobby Fisher envious

Icon of Sin said:
Ok... so you break and make a ball and you can make your opponent push?

Because the way you are saying, you would hope you break dry so your opponent has to push. If that is the strategy you are going to see some even more lack-luster breaks.
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No, on the contrary, you try to make a ball so you control the table and have the first option to "Push Out" or make your opponent Push Out.

This brings on a plethora of strategy that would make Bobby Fisher envious.:groucho:
 
CJ Wiley said:
No, on the contrary, you try to make a ball so you control the table and have the first option to "Push Out" or make your opponent Push Out.

This brings on a plethora of strategy that would make Bobby Fisher envious.:groucho:
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You could easily give me the 5 and out, but I think your advantage would go down slightly playing push out rules since now it takes away your ability to run packs and really put pressure on me.

I will agree that push out battles are fun, and I take pride in being pretty good at them. Where are opinions differ, however, is that I don't think they should be mandatory.
 
Johnnyt said:
To me that match was the best nail biter I've seen in awhile. I was lucky enough to pick the right side on my bets, but could have gone either way. I hope to see Shaw back on TAR sometime in the future. I would like to see him and Shane in about 6 months. Thanks to all that made this match happen. Johnnyt
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Well, people wanted to see a shoot out after the pockets were opened up to 4 1/2 inches and they got it in this match-up. These guys were firing in and playing some creative positions that I don't think is advisable in a tighter pockets.

I too agree that it would be good to see Shaw back here after bit more seasoning.

For TAR, I hope this All International match up was at par or better than previous match-ups, viewers and money wise. I, for one, welcomed two players into the mix and loved how they behaved and played at very fast pace (except for racking).

Jayson is a class act for how he posted a thank you friends, family and sponsors (including TAR) post on FB after what must've been a very tough and frustrating day.
 
Johnnyt said:
To me that match was the best nail biter I've seen in awhile. I was lucky enough to pick the right side on my bets, but could have gone either way. I hope to see Shaw back on TAR sometime in the future. I would like to see him and Shane in about 6 months. Thanks to all that made this match happen. Johnnyt
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I also really enjoyed this match! Alcano breaks a LOT better than I thought. He actually has a phenomenal 10 ball break. Great play, and very good sportsmanship by both players. Both acted like complete professionals...a refreshing change from some previous matchups.

Get these guys back a LOT. Shaw is gonna be a monster (correction...*more* of a monster). He's got a bright future.

KMRUNOUT
 
KMRUNOUT said:
I also really enjoyed this match! Alcano breaks a LOT better than I thought. He actually has a phenomenal 10 ball break. Great play, and very good sportsmanship by both players. Both acted like complete professionals...a refreshing change from some previous matchups.

Get these guys back a LOT. Shaw is gonna be a monster (correction...*more* of a monster). He's got a bright future.

KMRUNOUT
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Jayson + 3 Years is gonna be a killer. You can see that at present he's not quiet seasoned enough with the safety/kick play. Pushing out to a marginal game loosing jump shot is quite often a loser move unless there is a huge disparity in jumping ability. You never have the best of a push out and and at best you MUST turn it into a 50-50 proposition for the incoming player. If he spends zero time looking at it you have failed (no matter what the outcome). A good push must force your incoming player into a problematic decision. RA would simply look and pass back or take it and lock him down in seconds. Not enough.

Jayson's potting is world class. His kicking is not where it needs to be to compete with the top class guys. Jayson has EVERYTHING else plus what is between the ears.

My example. Late in the second set he is locked behind the 10 ball and the one is trapped near the side pocket. He's on no fouls yet and he should have moved two balls that were hanging around the area. RA can't win with ball in hand and at best can put him where is currently is. Clearing the balls would have given him two decent kick chances. Instead he bets the farm on a super low percentage two railer that is destined to sell the farm or scratch in the side.

When fighting from your back you need to hold on and wait for a opportunity. At least force your opponent to make two more good safeties.

He's only 24 and has the world in front of him. Nice manners. Gentleman. Great eye and level head. If he doesn't win a US Open or such in 5 years I would be amazed.
 
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Roll Out favors the better player 5/1

BeiberLvr;4100253[B said:
]You could easily give me the 5 and out, but I think your advantage would go down slightly playing push out rules since now it takes away your ability to run packs and really put pressure on me.
[/B]
I will agree that push out battles are fun, and I take pride in being pretty good at them. Where are opinions differ, however, is that I don't think they should be mandatory.
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I respectfully disagree, Roll Out favors the better player 5/1 over One Foul.
 
Nick B said:
He's only 24 and has the world in front of him. Nice manners. Gentleman. Great eye and level head. If he doesn't win a US Open or such in 5 years I would be amazed.
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Totally agreed ... and just posted to make sure the thread doesn't derail. Someone is being a dick in this thread.
 
CJ Wiley said:
I respectfully disagree, Roll Out favors the better player 5/1 over One Foul.
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How so?

I kick really well, and do okay with jumping so when you push, you'll hardly put me in a terrible spot. If you do, I have no problems with giving it back and making you come with a good shot.

Eliminating one foul relieves a lot of pressure from me, because now I don't have to worry about giving you ball in hand and running out.

I guess if I were ever going to gamble with someone much better than me, I'd probably prefer playing 2 push out rules.
 
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