League pool

Banks said:
I've been playing for 11 or 12 years now. I pay money to be part of the league.. to play matches against random opponents, spend time with friends, meet new people and go to places i may not otherwise visit. Don't care where my money goes. If i want to play to get something back, ill play bca or gamble. In my experience, apa has been fun, got me into the game and continues to be worth the money.
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I basically said the same thing in post #6.

It blows my mind how money comes into the equation of a league that is so inexpensive to play in. I've also played in BCA, and straight pool leagues that paid money back...but I couldn't care less if they did or didn't. It's not like you're going to get a payout that is going to cure all your money problems (if you have any) or anything like that.

I've bowled in leagues long before I shot pool in leagues. There was always a cash payout at the end of the year, the amount depending on how high up in the standings your team finished. A team at the top of the standings would get back approximately 1/3rd of the money they had invested in the league, those teams finishing near the bottom probably got back around 1/8th of money invested. Either way, it was never enough to do anything exciting with, so I just didn't care about those payouts either. But the bowling sure made for a good night out with family and friends and made whatever I paid for that worthwhile.

Pool leagues do the same thing for me.

Maniac
 
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To me it is a cheap night out on the town. Our league uses compusport.us for stats. They started this year. So they added $2 a night to help pay for the software. At least 50% of the league was unhappy about the $2 up charge. To me it is still cheaper than going to eat out somewhere or going to the movies. And compusport has some pretty cool stat lines. They can do what ever they want with my $10 a week. I am still happy.
 
Never had the time to play in league but this is really saddening to see. If pool players are this cheap to be bickering over $10-15/wk to play a pool match, pool doesn't stand a chance to ever thrive.
 
sbpoolleague said:
Not good enough. Most APA leagues have multiple levels of playoffs and tournaments and that "players fund" you speak of isn't a fund for that 6 or 8 team division but most of it gets lopped into a regional fund. So a team can win its division, win a playoff among its division playoff teams, then go to a regional playoff and lose, and go home with nothing more than a trophy. Now there is nothing wrong with the system or the structure, but I feel that an operator should lay out exactly how the players fund is apportioned between the various tourney/playoff levels. We have a very large APA franchise nearby and several of our BCAPL players also play in that APA league. Every single one of them have complaints over this exact issue. It isn't me bashing the APA. I have never played APA. It is the APA players bashing the APA. I'm just echoing their collective voice.
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Not good enough for what? Who are you to say what's good enough and what isn't? It must be good enough for that APA franchise nearby to become very large. It started at zero at some point in the past, and it probably wasn't the only league around. My guess is that it still isn't the only league around, yet it attracts more members than all the other leagues combined. Some of those leagues probably ONLY exist today because the APA leagues provide them a pool of players from which to poach. None of them make much of an effort to attract new members, just bash the APA and pick the low-lying fruit.

Oh, and by the way, that particular APA franchise (the one close to Santa Barbara, not the one IN Santa Barbara, right?) has a website, and the various awards (local and regional) are spelled out on that website, so the breakdown you've been railing about has been there all along. Maybe you, or those crossover players you claim to echo, should bother to read the information provided to them once in a while.

Oh, and also by the way, one of the reasons APA leagues remain popular and grow like they do is because they deliver on their promises, EVERY TIME. Operators who don't do that aren't around long (and APA backs up those promises when the operator fails). When one of the other leagues fails, the catalyst is often a failure to deliver on promises made, with little or no back up from the national organization. I've seen it happen in my franchise area. It varies from not being able to make the huge payouts promised, to reneging on promises to pay for trips to a national event. Those are bad practices (business or volunteer) and sure ways to lose teams.
 
trob said:
Exactly lol Pool players are the one group that seem to think every dime goes back to them. Do you ever play golf or bowling leagues? No one complains about the bowling alley or the golf course making money because people who play those games are smart enough to realize it's not a charity.. they're is a price for entertainment. Someone has to collect all the stats and be in charge. There is a price for that.
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YOU DON'T GET IT!!! I'm not saying there is a problem with the league operator or the officers or host venues getting paid. I'm saying in a social league THAT INFO SHOULD BE AVAILABLE TO THE MEMBERS.
 
LegitStick1234 said:
To me it is a cheap night out on the town. Our league uses compusport.us for stats. They started this year. So they added $2 a night to help pay for the software. At least 50% of the league was unhappy about the $2 up charge. To me it is still cheaper than going to eat out somewhere or going to the movies. And compusport has some pretty cool stat lines. They can do what ever they want with my $10 a week. I am still happy.
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WHAT!?!?!?! In our relatively small league a $2 up charge per person per night equates to $10,000 a year. That's friggin ridiculous. THIS IS EXACTLY THE REASON WHY A BUDGET SHOULD BE AVAILABLE TO ALL MEMBERS.

This upcharge amounts to wallet rape.
 
sbpoolleague said:
WHAT!?!?!?! In our relatively small league a $2 up charge per person per night equates to $10,000 a year. That's friggin ridiculous. THIS IS EXACTLY THE REASON WHY A BUDGET SHOULD BE AVAILABLE TO ALL MEMBERS.

This upcharge amounts to wallet rape.
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Want to talk about wallet rape?

I built a small bca division to help a few places out where i have tables. After a while, i handed over the division. It collapsed shortly afterwards. Some people paid their 38 for yearly dues just to play in league for 8b. Well, two weeks in, they said two teams couldn't field enough players and they would look for an alternative. Nothing happened. I asked about the dues.. no, that goes to the national office they said. The two weeks? Also nothing and the weeks won't even count towards qualifying.

Needless to say, im currently not playing bca and frankly i dont really care if i start back into it or not. Apa never screwed me like that. I know what i pay for in the apa and it offers much more than the bca does as far as events go around here. It's a business, but at least it acts like one.
 
mikepage said:
Everybody who runs leagues is in a secret club. The members all meet quarterly at the island in the Caribbean they own jointly to drink and party and laugh at all the suckers who haven't caught on yet....
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Pool Illuminati convene!
 
You got $$ back ?

fastone371 said:
Our leagues cost $7.00 per week per player. We must drop quarters to play. For a 20 week season that is $140.00 total payout per person. At the end of the year we get prize money, Last year we finished 4th and I got $120.00 or so, it may have included some $5 or $10 dollar performance bonuses, I dont remember for sure but I think other team members got right around $100.00 each. Thats where our league fees go.
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Wow ! You got money back for 4th place?? (We just finished playoffs, won our division took 1st in playoffs and got a small trophy, no money ! ) We pay $8 per match. Double jeopardy so its $ 16, then $8 for table time . Comes out to like $170/season, an no $$ back ! :frown:

I am moving down near you, .... When can I join ??
 
sbpoolleague said:
We are just a one-night-a week 8-ball league. The only other league action within 45 minutes is APA.



Could be that it's 2am but I've read this 4 times and I still don't get the analogy
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Let me.put it in terms I hope you can understand.

You have a segment of pool players that realize apa is a business that provides certain services and those players willingly pay for those services and also willingly pay willingly pay the establishment for table time she they utilize spas services.they willingly pay apa.and the establishments they play in because they realize funds are needed to provide those services.

When those type people need a pump as on the case wth my w they will go pay to rent one and willingly pay the business for services rendered.

Then you have the cheap ass pool players. They at the ones who expect free table time when they play pool. They are also the ones that after utilizing your services for a session want most if not all their money back. They are also the type that if in need of a pump ...as in my analogy will go purchase one and then after they utilize that item for the required period they need it they will return it for their money back....in effect utilize it for free just as they want free table time and their money back for their time playing pool . And yes I have seen stuff like that done. Cheap ass people that want something for nothing.


Will you do me a favor.? Ask a few of your members why in the hell would they torment their selves playing in apa and then coming to you and complaining about it. It just puzzles the hell outs me why people would pay to play in a league they dont like.
 
sbpoolleague said:
YOU DON'T GET IT!!! I'm not saying there is a problem with the league operator or the officers or host venues getting paid. I'm saying in a social league THAT INFO SHOULD BE AVAILABLE TO THE MEMBERS.
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If I am not mistaken....apa.is a privately owned for profit business. It does not owe you....me or any one else an explanation of where its money goes.

I understand you run a bcapl league. .....or is it just a league that you run using the bcapl format. ?


If it is a sanctioned bcapl league does mark griffin send you a yearly report of of his financials ?
 
I know the UPA where I live pays out for an 4 man 8 team division for 16 weeks

1)$1000
2)$800
3)$500
4)$300

Paying half the field. Not to bad. And people still complain it isn't enough. The $10 weekly fees, and they have to drop quarters? So yeah, pool players worry too much
about where their money$ are going instead of supporting pool where they can.
 
In my (BCA-sanctioned) league we pay a $20 entry fee (often paid by the room sponsor), and then $5 per night. We get free table time, one free drink, and $2 per win. We play 4 games, so if you win 3 or 4 games your night was free and you made a little money too. And there are payouts for top teams, something like a couple hundred for each of the top 3 teams.

It's great but honestly I feel a little guilty about it. I wish the rooms and league operators made more money from us. I want them to want to keep doing it and not just see league nights as a money drain on them.
 
Lemme ask you a few more questions SB


Do you hold 6 tri cup tournaments a year where you are the 1st one there 7:00 pm Fri night and the Las one to leave 11;00 pm Sunday night and run the entire thing by yourself?

Do you run 2 doubles tournaments a year and the 1st one there 7;00 pm Fri night and the Las one to leave 4:00 pm Sunday and run the entire thing by your self.?

Do you run 2 city tournaments a year and are the 1 st one there 7:00 pm Fri night and the last one to leave 11:00 pm Monday nigh and run the entire thing yourself.

Do you spend hours before each tournament making sure every player on every team in those tournaments are indeed eligible to play ? And making up all the brackets for said teams.

Do you spend hours keeping your regular weekly book keeping in addition to these tournaments.

Btw ....no league fees are paid for any of these tournaments.


Do you run a 1,000.00 dollar added team cash tournament...which btw that 1,000.00 comes out of your pocket. Are you the 1st one there 7!00 pm Fri night and the Las one to leave 11;00 pm Sunday night and run the entire thing by your self plus make up the brackets.

Do you spend 5,000.00 for each team..2 -8 ball and 2-9 ball teams to go to Vegas?

Do you spend 2,500.00.each for 2 doubles teams to go to Vegas ?

Do you spend 1,500.00 each for 6 singles player to go to Vegas.

So you ...in lieu of handing out patches send one lucky player to Vegas singles ?

Do you give free play to bye fill teams for an entire session ?

Have you initiated a program where every week a person is selected in every league to have a bounty on his head . If your opponent is the one with the bounty and you win the match next week is free for you.

Do you pay 10,000.00 to send a team to Hawaii each year ?

I know damn well where my league fees go. some goes for all the above....some goes to the national office.....whatever is left goes in my league operators pocket. I dont have a problem with it.....why do you ?
 
Banks said:
Want to talk about wallet rape?

I built a small bca division to help a few places out where i have tables. After a while, i handed over the division. It collapsed shortly afterwards. Some people paid their 38 for yearly dues just to play in league for 8b. Well, two weeks in, they said two teams couldn't field enough players and they would look for an alternative. Nothing happened. I asked about the dues.. no, that goes to the national office they said. The two weeks? Also nothing and the weeks won't even count towards qualifying.

Needless to say, im currently not playing bca and frankly i dont really care if i start back into it or not. Apa never screwed me like that. I know what i pay for in the apa and it offers much more than the bca does as far as events go around here. It's a business, but at least it acts like one.
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First off please use the right acronyms....the BCA and the BCAPL are two totally different organizations and have been for over 10 years. You are referring to the BCAPL.

Secondly, the BCAPL yearly membership fee is $15, so the LO that claimed that it is $38 is stealing $23 per person. The collapse of this division appears to have nothing to do with the BCAPL and everything to do with the mismanagement by the league operator.

Third, in the APA, a ridiculous percentage of your money is going in the pockets of the folks running the national office and the league operator. You ARE getting screwed, but they are doing it gently and from behind, with plenty of lube, so you can't feel it.
 
sbpoolleague said:
First off please use the right acronyms....the BCA and the BCAPL are two totally different organizations and have been for over 10 years. You are referring to the BCAPL.

Secondly, the BCAPL yearly membership fee is $15, so the LO that claimed that it is $38 is stealing $23 per person. The collapse of this division appears to have nothing to do with the BCAPL and everything to do with the mismanagement by the league operator.

Third, in the APA, a ridiculous percentage of your money is going in the pockets of the folks running the national office and the league operator. You ARE getting screwed, but they are doing it gently and from behind, with plenty of lube, so you can't feel it.
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First off, ill call it whatever i want.

I know what i pay for, but apparently i forgot the added benefit of people like you, who don't even play apa, crying about the overwhelming cost of $8 a match. You must be a real party animal. I've heard similar nits bag on the apa since i began. Handicapped systems, low rated players, you name it.. most folks are just blowing hot air, including you.
 
I will never understand for the life of me why people insist on comparing APA and BCA. Aside from the fact they are both pool they're as different as night and day. They don't want the same players, completely different business model, and both can serve a purpose.

How many people who own BCA leagues can make a full time living doing it? None in Colorado Springs and I'd ASSume very few, if any, in the US. Why? Because there is almost nothing that stops another person from starting a BCA league right next to you.

Obviously, APA is different. No one can start an APA league in the same city.

I play both, think both have good/bad aspects. If you're a person who is constantly bagging on an opposing league it's likely because you have an agenda.
 
Dunnn51 said:
Wow ! You got money back for 4th place?? (We just finished playoffs, won our division took 1st in playoffs and got a small trophy, no money ! ) We pay $8 per match. Double jeopardy so its $ 16, then $8 for table time . Comes out to like $170/season, an no $$ back ! :frown:

I am moving down near you, .... When can I join ??
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I feel your pain. Come play in our league. The weekly league fees are a bit higher ($10) but we are dual sanctioned and EVERY player and team can choose to play in one or both national tourneys in Vegas in May and July. At the end of the session the top 40 players (the "All-Stars") get cash back, and we set the 20th place money to be roughly equal to the entire session's fees. We have three tournaments for individuals and and team playoff at session's end. The main tourney for individuals is the All-Star tourney where 1/3 of the field will cash and the top prize is between $400 and $600. The All-Star tourney is double-elim and seeded such that the top 16 players get a first round bye. All non-All-Stars can play in another tourney where half the field gets cash and the top few finishers qualify for the All-Star tourney. And the 16 players that finished the session just outside the All-Stars get their own tourney and another chance to win money and qualify for the All-Stars.

The top 8 teams finishing the regular session win cash, with the top teams winning at least $1000. Then at the end of the session we have a team playoff tournament that allows every team to participate. The tourney is seeded and run very similar to the NCAA BB tourney, with those top 8 teams receiving a bye in the first round. The top four teams win cash in this tourney with the top team winning at least $1000.

And since we know that a lot of people still enjoy trophies, we allocate over $1000 per session for trophies to the top player on each team, the top 3 or 4 players and teams in each division, most improved players, best league rookies, the best female player, and more. Sometimes we offer players a choice of trophy, engraved coffee mug or other glassware, plaque, etc., or the cash equivalent. All players can bank their cash winnings with the league and use them as credit for future weekly fees. Our players love that convenience.

So when I hear the sad stories such as yours in which all you got for winning your APA division was a dinky little trophy, I gotta wonder where is all that money going? Well, actually, we all KNOW where that money is going. Right in the pockets of the LO and the APA.
 
lorider said:
Will you do me a favor.? Ask a few of your members why in the hell would they torment their selves playing in apa and then coming to you and complaining about it. It just puzzles the hell outs me why people would pay to play in a league they dont like.
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I have asked that question of all of them. And the unanimous answer is that they have one or two extra weeknights free in which they want to play more league pool and the only leagues available are APA.

I have a full-time job outside of my LO duties and currently cannot give any more time to organizing more divisions on other nights of the week. But I'm working on it.
 
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