league sandbaggers vs hustlers

[Goose1972]

Why does it seem like league sandbaggers are vilonized, and gambling hustlers are turned into heroes. Aren't they all the lowest scum that walk this earth.

last night I lost to this sandbagging 4 in 9 and 8. He even racked the last 9 ball rack extreemly crooked, which he didnt do the whole match. I needed 1 ball and he needed 2. i was to pissed to say anything before i broke, and just cracked them as hard as possible thinking one would drop, nothing fell, he made a hard shot on the one, set himself up perfectly for the 2.

I should broke his thumbs.

I just don't see why all the stories about these Big name gambling SOB's who dont show there speed get glorified. should I glorify this tools actions. They all deserve a good beating.

 

[macguy]

Why does it seem like league sandbaggers are vilonized, and gambling hustlers are turned into heroes. Aren't they all the lowest scum that walk this earth.

last night I lost to this sandbagging 4 in 9 and 8. He even racked the last 9 ball rack extreemly crooked, which he didnt do the whole match. I needed 1 ball and he needed 2. i was to pissed to say anything before i broke, and just cracked them as hard as possible thinking one would drop, nothing fell, he made a hard shot on the one, set himself up perfectly for the 2.

I should broke his thumbs.

I just don't see why all the stories about these Big name gambling SOB's who dont show there speed get glorified. should I glorify this tools actions. They all deserve a good beating.

I don't want to disillusion you but the old saying "You can't cheat an honest man" when it comes to pool hustling is true. The whole essence of a hustle is to convince the sucker he is in fact the one who is stealing. If he was honest he would say, "I am sorry I think I am too good for you and we should not be gambling". Don't count on the sucker saying that, they will instead want to raise the bet.

As far as sandbaggers, that is a completely different discussion and also requires collusion on the part of his team mates. The whole team and not just the sandbagger are open to criticism.

 

[Banks]

Why does it seem like league sandbaggers are vilonized, and gambling hustlers are turned into heroes. Aren't they all the lowest scum that walk this earth.

last night I lost to this sandbagging 4 in 9 and 8. He even racked the last 9 ball rack extreemly crooked, which he didnt do the whole match. I needed 1 ball and he needed 2. i was to pissed to say anything before i broke, and just cracked them as hard as possible thinking one would drop, nothing fell, he made a hard shot on the one, set himself up perfectly for the 2.

I should broke his thumbs.

I just don't see why all the stories about these Big name gambling SOB's who dont show there speed get glorified. should I glorify this tools actions. They all deserve a good beating.

Soooo...

He's a sandbagger, but you were about to win? Gotcha. He racked em up crooked, you didn't say anything, but you're still saying you should get violent? Break one of your own thumbs and take some time to think about what you've said.

I'm guessing you've never lied to get into a girl's pants, or at least misled them.. yeah, we're all saints here.

 

[Goose1972]

As far as sandbaggers, that is a completely different discussion and also requires collusion on the part of his team mates. The whole team and not just the sandbagger are open to criticism.

but isn't this the definition of a hustle as well?

 

[Goose1972]

Soooo...

He's a sandbagger, but you were about to win? Gotcha. He racked em up crooked, you didn't say anything, but you're still saying you should get violent? Break one of your own thumbs and take some time to think about what you've said.

I'm guessing you've never lied to get into a girl's pants, or at least misled them.. yeah, we're all saints here.

im saying he took his time and really didn't care to play his best. he needed less balls due to handicap, we played at close to same level, i needed more then him. he took his time getting there, missed shots, and made them when he needed to.

this is kind of like getting hustled for money, here win the first few games, lets bet more. owe you are real good heres my money.

and no i've never lied to get into a girls pants. never had to. guys like that should probably get whats comming to them as well.

 

[macguy]

but isn't this the definition of a hustle as well?

No, because the other team are innocent parties. They are not doing anything but playing in what is supposed to be an honest game. It is not a hustle but dishonestly where honesty is expected. When you match up with a player in the pool room to gamble there are not such expectations, in fact you should expect to be on your guard when gambling.

One thing with a pool league and sandbagging, you have to have evidence that is what happened. Not all players are fanatics and if they don't practice on a regular basis their games can vary greatly. Many may not play other then league night and have good nights and bad nights. It takes more information then one night to prove sandbagging, it could be a player just having a good night.

 

[brandoncook26]

There is a very easy way to not get hustled.

My friend tells a story of when a well known road player came to play at a local pool room years ago. He walked in and his friend was playing this guy for $20 a game. He was up 10+ games when the guy asked to raise the bet.

He told the player "I won the money at $20 a game and if you want it back you'll have to win it $20 at a time."

Like macguy said, if you didn't think you could take them for more, you wouldn't ever get hustled.

As far as sandbagging, play your best and be happy with your play. You cannot stop everyone. Either they do or they don't. It has also been said before, dogging it and dumping it look exactly the same.

 

[Goose1972]

asides from my crying which is apparent, for I am a victim who has been scarred, I should avenge this somehow, apparently i can't in pool as he is a 4, so i should take matters into my own hands. i am in the apa, I love making friends, playing pool and having fun, but i don't like being f-ed with. play your game stop wasting my time.

but in reagrds to the post itself

I was just trying to make a theoretical comparison of sandbaggers to hustlers. as many ignorant people here seem to think a run in with a pro or a real hustler who robbed someone makes for a good story, perhaps these league sandbaggers are heros as well, and we should be posting stories of how a 70 year old 4 on an oxygen tank, got the best of me in a league match. oh my hero!! you all act like a bunch of school girls when a big name pro steals from someone. and try and justify it by saying these people deserve it becasue their really trying to do the hustling. the hustle occurs when someone hides there speed as sandbaggers do.

 

[ronscuba]

Maybe try a different league. There are plenty of them in the area.

 

[poolguy4u]

Isn't this a money league? You can't win the big money unless you have at least 2 people on the team that are under rated.

You might want to have an audit done on yourself. Your handicap might go down to make it more fair.

When I was a hustler, I'd tell everyone I was the best in the world, and if you don't believe it, try and prove different.

Actually...there are pool players and there are hustlers. It is a choice. I wish my handicap would go down too.

Where I play, the same Tap team in PA has been winning title holders and winning the free trip to go to Nationals for 10 years now and their handicaps never go up. I've complained but it just never sinks in that they are sandbaggers.

In Tap league some handicaps are fixed and the league operator can adjust handicaps at any time. The rules say different but I have the proof.

 

[hang-the-9]

I don't like either one personally. It's one thing not to say anything about how good you play before a match, it's another to lie about it. Not any better than people selling fake Balabushkas on ebay.

 

[incognito]

Both sandbaggers and hustlers misrepresent their abilities in order to gain an advantage over their opponent. But I think that is where the similarities end.

Sandbaggers are cheating scum but hustlers are deceptive predators.

A sandbagger and his score keeper have to dishonestly manipulate a handicap system in order to gain an unfair advantage. Most of these sandbaggers are mediocre players at best in the absence of their handicap system.

A hustler is usually a pretty good player and usually not a cheater. A hustler 'robs' the weaker player by duping the weaker player into believing that he actually has a chance to win. The weak player has to voluntarily accept the challenge, so the weak player is mainly to blame. The weaker player is probably looking for action anyway, so a fool and his money will soon part ways regardless.

On the other hand, you, the honest league player, have no choice when confronted with sandbagging. You have an inherently unfair disadvantage simply because they cheated and you didn't. Their skill level 3 breaks and runs 2 racks in a row, and your strong 5 never has a chance.

Most sandbaggers could barely run 3 balls matched up against the average hustler.

Why does it seem like league sandbaggers are vilonized, and gambling hustlers are turned into heroes. Aren't they all the lowest scum that walk this earth.



I just don't see why all the stories about these Big name gambling SOB's who dont show there speed get glorified. should I glorify this tools actions. They all deserve a good beating.

 

[poolguy4u]

I don't like either one personally. It's one thing not to say anything about how good you play before a match, it's another to lie about it. Not any better than people selling fake Balabushkas on ebay.

Funny how people put down Ebay when you have the same people doing the same thing on azbilliards.:angry:

 

[hang-the-9]

A hustler is usually a pretty good player and usually not a cheater. A hustler 'robs' the weaker player by duping the weaker player into believing that he actually has a chance to win. The weak player has to voluntarily accept the challenge, so the weak player is mainly to blame.

Using this logic, it was mostly Poland's fault that Germany invaded because they believed the other country when they said it was just peacefully expanding their army a bit.

The other player just goes by what is presented to him, if you bought a gold ring for a good but not super good price and it turned out to be a fake, is that your fault too? Is that what the police would say if you filed a report? Well sir, he said it was solid gold, you believed him, so you're at fault for not running a full chemical analysis on the ring in your lab before you bought it.

Or how about "well, she said she was 18!"

 

[Goose1972]

Oh Goosey!

Just when I was starting to dislike you, you post more crap and cement the feeling.



dld

nooooo DD!!!! NOOOO!!!! and you seemed like such a respectable person,

i thought we were gonna start a long healthy friendship bonded by our love for community service. you'll probably end up doing some, under judges orders of course.

 

[Goose1972]

Sandbaggers are cheating scum but hustlers are deceptive predators.

.

this is my point, it seems like on this site deceptive predators are loved and adored. while deceptive cheating scum are chastized.

do you guys watch MSNBC catch a predator, routing that the predator escapes??

 

[Banks]

he needed less balls due to handicap, we played at close to same level, i needed more then him. he took his time getting there, missed shots, and made them when he needed to.

this is kind of like getting hustled for money, here win the first few games, lets bet more. owe you are real good heres my money.

asides from my crying which is apparent, for I am a victim who has been scarred, I should avenge this somehow, apparently i can't in pool as he is a 4, so i should take matters into my own hands. i am in the apa, I love making friends, playing pool and having fun, but i don't like being f-ed with. play your game stop wasting my time.

but in reagrds to the post itself

I was just trying to make a theoretical comparison of sandbaggers to hustlers. as many ignorant people here seem to think a run in with a pro or a real hustler who robbed someone makes for a good story, perhaps these league sandbaggers are heros as well, and we should be posting stories of how a 70 year old 4 on an oxygen tank, got the best of me in a league match. oh my hero!! you all act like a bunch of school girls when a big name pro steals from someone. and try and justify it by saying these people deserve it becasue their really trying to do the hustling. the hustle occurs when someone hides there speed as sandbaggers do.

Ok, a few things here..

A 4 that "should be" a 5 doesn't really exist on very many levels.. it's kinda like me saying I'm a 9, so I should be playing like a 9+ every match. Sometimes I'll make incredible outs, then I'll dog the easy shot. My match last week, I opened up with a great rack, only to fudge some things up later on, losing to a 7 that shot well. It's hard enough to win at your skill level, much less be able to dog a couple of shots here and there and still have things go your way. I'm much more apt to believe an 8b 7 bagging down to a 4, than I am to believe a 5 playing as a 4.

Trust me, I've been in the APA for just over 7 years now and I still enjoy playing each match(with a few exceptions of course). I've switched divisions, but I like to see and bs with lots of the folks that I've played against(both the people and the teams).

Now, on to the hustler part.. some hustle 'honest' gamblers. It happens. You can't put your $$ out there every time and believe you've got a 50/50 shot with each and every one. Many times, somebody will think that they have it in the bag, so they're thinking that they have it in the bag.. until it turns around. Most often, the hustler is nothing more than a sandtrap for somebody's greed. In some cases, it really is quite an art form, being able to do it so subtlely that they're not even noticed. If you can tell right away that you 'got hustled', chances are you didn't. The good hustle is sly and takes a while, especially if they pull off nice $$. Somebody willing to throw that much money away more than likely is a gambler through and through and should know it comes as quickly as it goes. That's my current take on it anyways.

 

[macguy]

Using this logic, it was mostly Poland's fault that Germany invaded because they believed the other country when they said it was just peacefully expanding their army a bit.

The other player just goes by what is presented to him, if you bought a gold ring for a good but not super good price and it turned out to be a fake, is that your fault too? Is that what the police would say if you filed a report? Well sir, he said it was solid gold, you believed him, so you're at fault for not running a full chemical analysis on the ring in your lab before you bought it.

Or how about "well, she said she was 18!"

Your analogies don't really apply. The gold ring for instance. Gold rings are available everywhere in reputable stores. If you bought a gold ring on the street what is the motivation? It can only be price or a story of someones hard luck you are only too happy to profit from. No, you are not an innocent buyer but a foolish and maybe greedy opportunist. If people did not fall into this mindset of "Quick to take advantage of someone eases misfortune" they would not get taken.

Now on the other hand this took place in a store they were crime victims. Hustlers just take advantage of peoples predictable greed. Big difference gambling, usually an illegal activity anyway and making an honest purchase.

One of the most common cons is selling something like speakers out of the back of a truck. in a parking lot. The mark is approached and asked if they want to buy some speakers. The seller will actually come out and say they are not stolen of anything. The point of this it to trigger the thought in the mind of the mark that they are probably stolen and he is getting a good deal on something stolen. He will almost without exception make a lowball offer for the speakers and once the two come to a price the sale is made. The fact is, the seller has a bill of sale for the cheap Chinese speakers should a cop wish to see it and they are legit.

This con can not work if the buyer is honest, but of course they can't wait to get a good deal on the stolen speakers and brag to their friends about it.

 

[justadub]

I have been making this point for some time now. Misrepresenting your speed is the tool of both the sandbagger and the hustler. It is done to gain unfair advantage. There is no honor in playing a game in that manner. But as Al Davis used to say "just win, baby", right?

It is an argument that i will never win here on AZB. "The hustle" is glorified in pool culture, and if you aren't getting over on someone, you simply ain't a real pool player. Which is also the primary reason pool will never be accepted in the mainstream, due to its seedy nature.

Which we continue to glorify. It's our own fault.

 

[Goose1972]

Ok, a few things here..

A 4 that "should be" a 5 doesn't really exist on very many levels..

I'm saying this particular 4, is probably closer to a 6. I get it, sandbagging happens, as does hustling, i just dont see the difference asides from big time names and players/pros predator cheats who are glorified here.


i guess some people put the mob on a pedestal too. I really loved this weeks episode of mob wives, where the feds took donnie brascos granddaughters jewelry, and she cried like a little Bi@tch. or the other one pouted that they arrested her man right before thansgiving and the didnt let the family enjoy the holidays. you reap what you sow.