Lets bring pool back to the glory days

The Role of Alcohol

philly said:
Yes. A fix is unlikely. Everything in pool must get done on a personal basis. I am lucky enough to play at a great poolroom with a great owner on great equipment. The poolroom is 25 minutes from my home. There is another nice room a half hour away and 2 other great rooms inside of an hour from me. I am fortunate. I play with my 30 year old son on a regular basis in league, tournaments, and we practice together. I will be introducing my 7 year old granddaughter to the poolroom as soon as I build a box for her to stand on and she will get used to playing on 9 footers.
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In my opinion I see Room Owners leaning on Alcohol to pay the bills and its not so easy to manage with all of the regulation and taxes involved. So it takes up a lot of time.

When it comes to advertising..1 they cant afford real advertising and 2...they spend time wishing for more Alcohol Sales but rarely do anything about trying to recruit new ways of gaining more customers which to me is nuts.

There are plenty of people alive now that know of pool, grew up around pool and are needing something to do. Get in touch with that market and bingo...instant customer base.
 
Very unusual. None of the rooms I go to sell alcohol though you can byob and 3 of them have food but nothing fancy. The room I mainly frequent has neither booze nor food. Sort of like Ames. It's about the pool. LOL. The room owner loves the game and it shows. He makes sure it's a civil environment too.
 
mattyice said:
I don't think that's what anyone is saying, and if they are, they're wrong. The objection is more to making it ALWAYS about money, as if the game means nothing if there isn't some financial bottom line to it.

I'll play anyone for a little money if they want to and I can afford it. Why not? I enjoy poker and used to play a lot, so while gambling isn't a main attraction for me, I can see the appeal and think it can be fun. But when it's transparent that guys are hustling and I can see all the BS that's going to come along with it - sharking, massive ego trips, unscrupulous crap just to get a few bucks ahead - that's when I take a step back. Because you can romanticize it all you want, but that's not what makes the game great. Gambling doesn't inherently ruin pool, and neither does not gambling.
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I could not agree with you more, very well said.
 
Keith McCready Story

I still think the biggest story would be the Keith McCready story.

While I understand JAM wants to make a masterpiece, the book she has been apparently working on needs to get out there, and maybe put into a script.

Artie "The Middler" might be second choice, with Buddy Hall story, or the mystery of St. Louie, all might be great story lines.

Guys, IMO, you have to get out there on TV first, and with movies second.

Like most things, it takes someone committed, with connections and maybe a little money to make it happen.

Often, we are our own worst enemy.

Ken
 
As Tramp has said, the game is declining. Get used to it. I know it sounds fatalistic but there have been many threads about this same topic. Everyone is playing in bars on 7 footers now. You're right maybe a movie or TV show will come out of the blue and institute a revival but until then all we can do is embrace the newbies that walk into the poolroom.
 
philly said:
Very unusual. None of the rooms I go to sell alcohol though you can byob and 3 of them have food but nothing fancy. The room I mainly frequent has neither booze nor food. Sort of like Ames. It's about the pool. LOL. The room owner loves the game and it shows. He makes sure it's a civil environment too.
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Yea, but does he make any money? It sounds nice but if you want pool ro grow you need pool rooms and they need to make a profit. The business can be fun but it is also a business and has it's headaches.

There needs to be a good financial incentive for someone to want to make the investment. You need a bar and food or at least some other income to augment the pool. You just can't make it on pool, period.
 
Ken_4fun said:
I still think the biggest story would be the Keith McCready story.

While I understand JAM wants to make a masterpiece, the book she has been apparently working on needs to get out there, and maybe put into a script.

Artie "The Middler" might be second choice, with Buddy Hall story, or the mystery of St. Louie, all might be great story lines.

Guys, IMO, you have to get out there on TV first, and with movies second.

Like most things, it takes someone committed, with connections and maybe a little money to make it happen.

Often, we are our own worst enemy.

Ken
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There has already been movies on pool over the years since the COM. They didn't do anything to bring any attention to the sport. The Hustler and COM were just everything in the right time and the right place with the right people.

The COM really as a movie stunk. It was only Newman reprising his most famous role and Cruse the most popular actor at the time that created the buzz.

Unless that same magic could be generated a movie would make little or no difference in the pool industry. The only people who would be interested in it would be us. I do agree a movie about Mosconi done well in a high class way, would probably get some mainstream attention. maybe even give the sport a little shot in the arm.
 
macguy said:
Yea, but does he make any money? It sounds nice but if you want pool ro grow you need pool rooms and they need to make a profit. The business can be fun but it is also a business and has it's headaches.

There needs to be a good financial incentive for someone to want to make the investment. You need a bar and food or at least some other income to augment the pool. You just can't make it on pool, period.
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The owner has a long term view. We are up north and the poolroom is busiest in the colder months, slower in the warmer months except for the regulars. He makes the room inviting through the winter with handicapped leagues and a mini tournament every Friday night. This can bring newer people in and hopefully grow over time. He hosts charity benefit tournaments and APA. I have never asked him his financial situation but it appears he's doing ok. The room is 10 minutes from the Expo. If you are attending the Expo you should stop in.
 
thall said:
Many years ago, back in the 80's there were pool rooms all over the nation, every town had one. Every town had their own best shooter, the guy that everyone was convinced was the best shot in town. Pool has had its ups and downs over the years. By the late 50's pool was in big decline, rooms were closing up all over the country. Then came Paul Newman and Jackie Gleason in the movie The Hustler. Huge hit and pool was brought back to life. ABC featured matches on Wide World of Sports and pool was breathing new life again. Today once again pool is in decline. Sadly today we have the best equipment ever made to play the game yet there are fewer people playing today. Money has dried up in the game and its a shame. There are pro players today with so much skill at the game that are barely making a living. Prize money for big open invitation matches is what the players put up to play in the matches. Can you imagine any other sport where the players have to pay to play and if they don't win they go home with nothing. When was the last King of The Hill match where the prize money was $200,000 to the winner, 2005 I think. As crazy as Strickland is he said it best, there is no money in pool, we're all broke.

I think a movie featuring the life story of Willie Mosconi on the major screen would wake up the game, rooms would open up, people would be playing in droves.

Lets hear your ideas and hopefully someone somewhere will pick up on them and invest in our game again an bring it back to the glory days.
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A movie about Mosconi's 14:1 Tournament wins or his exhibitions? That is about all I ever heard of, neither seemed too exciting. Leagues certainly have their place for many people, however, I am not one. I would rather watch Lou and JB for $10K large than the US Open 9 ball....at least you know that the winner gets paid. A fictional TV series might work better for revised exposure....many seem to click these days.

Whether it is a game or sport, the money makes it interesting. Please note CJ's point on golf. The prize money in tournament pool is so small it isn't exciting to me. Tournament poker is interesting only because of the prize money but the style of play is far less creative than cash.

Bridge is alot of fun to play. Would you rather see a Bridge game or HS Hold'em? For me the same can be said of pool. I love Big Truck's 1P streams winner take all.

carry on
 
phil dade said:
Whether it is a game or sport, the money makes it interesting.
carry on
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UNLESS you are a DIE HARD pool fanatic, TODAY'S pool ISN'T interesting!

The ONLY thing that increases the interest is the PRIZE at the end, with MONEY being more interesting than a trophy to MOST. Nobody cares how many bracelets somebody won in poker until they associate the money that equates to.

The ONLY way to get pool into the money is to make it INTERESTING!

SO FAR, NOBODY seems to be able to come up with the "solution". Some people will say pool is okay and nothing needs to be done. Some people are content to play once a month on a bar table...others prefer to play more often on different equipment.

IMHO, professional pool will never become popular to the masses until money is HEAVILY INVOLVED. People who watched The Hustler and TCOM didn't gravitate to the pool halls to learn pool for the "sport", they went because they thought the lifestyle was cool and they figured they could learn pool and become the next "hustler".

If those two movies were replaced with two movies showing guys in tuxedoes sitting down quietly and playing like automatons then the number of people who watched the movies and flocked to the pool halls may have been significantly LESS.

You need MONEY, you need "interesting" PERSONALITIES, and you need a GAME that is easy to follow, strategic, and quick...like cards.

The Bonus Ball thing didn't make it, but something similar with a different game possibly could. They had the right idea sort of...to pit "different" teams from "different" areas aspect. That sets up the "my brother can beat your brother" kind of rivalry, like in other sports. If you have people like Keith McCready and Earl, you have personalities that AUTOMATICALLY draw people. Intermix them the personalities of players who are just the opposite and you create DRAMA. Drama sells...think of reality TV.

I like to play pool and will continue as long as there is some place to play, but I don't see anybody coming in to really "learn" how to play...they just come in to kill time and bang around for the most part.

I asked one of my pool hall buddies who plays and goes everyday if there was any young "up and coming" players and he said "no", which is what I've observed from my once a week visits.

I think the Chinese will eventually take over all the top spots, followed by the Filipinos, and then maybe the Europeans. The USA just doesn't care for pool as much at this moment in time.

Aloha.

P.S. This is my OPINION and everybody has one.
 
macguy said:
There has already been movies on pool over the years since the COM. They didn't do anything to bring any attention to the sport. The Hustler and COM were just everything in the right time and the right place with the right people.

The COM really as a movie stunk. It was only Newman reprising his most famous role and Cruse the most popular actor at the time that created the buzz.

Unless that same magic could be generated a movie would make little or no difference in the pool industry. The only people who would be interested in it would be us. I do agree a movie about Mosconi done well in a high class way, would probably get some mainstream attention. maybe even give the sport a little shot in the arm.
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I find other than the COM and the Hustler, all of the pool movies stink. I buy them and support them, but they are pretty awful, tell the wrong story.

Earl Strickland Story would be a good one too. I am not a huge fan of his antics, but I have read stories of him playing barefoot in a barn for any amount of money as a youngster.

Hell, CJ's story would be a good one possibly. Big Arm John taking him out of high school to go on the road.

Maybe all of us are too close and are probably poor judges of what the mainstream folks would like to see.

Ken
 
ChicagoRJ said:
I never contradicted myself on anything. You should have spent more time in school learning how to read and write before you start with the insults. But, we know that's how you roll. Don't have the ability to discuss something back and forth, so the insults start coming and then you drag Freddy back into the conversation.... He's dead, let him be. What a spiteful, lonely old man you must be that you cannot leave the hate for Freddy alone even after death. Kinda pathetic.
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Sorry RJ..I just caught this post, and I felt I must respond !...I do NOT want to crank up the childish 'insult' rhetoric, that has always been part of our exchanges !..I can read quite well, and I can also express myself at least as well as you !.. And also, deceased or not, I would like to clear the air on a few things about Freddy !

You unfairly accuse me, of always bringing him up, when it is more often YOU, accusing me of it !.. I never really 'hated' Freddy, 'hating' was his bag..I respect your loyalty to your old friend, but you need to resurrect some of our old posts, before you place the blame for our 'personality clash', squarely on my shoulders !...Freddy had a lot of good qualities, but his capacity to REALLY 'hate', was not one of them !..I truly wish he wasn't gone, but I can't help that he is !

Way back before I ever started ragging on him, for his bragging, and his 'beat list', we ran into some very awkward problems !..I took offense at him, for trashing one of the most respected guy's in pool..My, (and Alf Taylor's) life-long friend Weenie Beenie (Bill Staton) I honestly feel, Beenie's popularity, on major TV talk shows, was more than Fred could bear !..He appeared to be green with envy, and he spent numerous posts trying to make him appear to be a complete jerk and a real a$$hole, to me, and everyone else !

Not only that anomaly, but he also 'hated' anyone HE (and often ONLY he) percieved as gay, or not a real man !..The list of people he insulted, and trashed, is huge, and as you know, he never minced words, in describing his feelings !..Sorry if this is a lot of stuff you don't want to hear, and I am sure you will accuse me of picking on someone who is not here to defend himself, but I felt I had to let you, (and others) know the "rest of the story"

Another thing I have never really been able to ascertain, is why Fred, out of the blue, and at the height of our ongoing squabbles, decided to actively promote me for the HOF ?..Many of my friends have offered two possible scenario's, as to how and why that came about !....The first was, he felt some measure of regret, that our differences had reached such irreconcilable proportions..The second was, he 'hated' one of the contender's (for the HOF) even MORE than he hated me ???..I guess we will never know for sure, will we ? :confused:

PS..Please respond to my observations, in a courteous, and sensible way, as I have tried to present them !.. By the way, I am neither 'spiteful or lonely'.. I'm just trying to mark time 'til I join Fred..Maybe we'll get along better up (or down) there, than we did here ?...I certainly hope so ! :p

Thank you,

Dick
 
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ChicagoRJ said:
.....I Never understood the pool players calling each other out anyways. Oh, so and so could beat so and so. blah, blah, blah. Only sport that tears down other players, never seen anything like this in other sports. Who cares who could beat who, <--Apparently the Beard did ! :o ..because nobody could say for sure. And in most cases, someone that won, would lose to that person that next time they played.
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Well, I'll give you a free pass on repeating and embellishing Fred's good points, but its tough to keep listening to you insist, that "I" always bring him up first...The part I emboldened in your response, was one of the things I had the toughest times dealing with !...Also, as I said in my post, (which you never really acknowledged)..he could be very insulting toward other player's. (and even non-player's)

It may be my fault, that I did not deal with it very well, but you are really hiding your head in the sand, if you think he could not be overly acerbic, and at times very indifferent, as to he insulted !..I have often agreed that Fred had a LOT of good qualities...You just seem obsessed with ignoring his bad ones !

RJ..I am ready to close the book on our debate, re; Fred ! But, in closing, I just want to point out that you seem bent on ignoring the profane, untrue insults he leveled at me daily, once he joined forces with his 'close' [sic] friend (and even prior to that)..Is it any wonder I did not take it well ?..Another thing he liked to make a big issue of, was what an unknown, nobody I was. (about which, I could care less)...So how could he/they, possibly blame me for affecting his/their "income" ?...Quite a stretch, isn't it ? :confused:
 
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Bill Gates just put a pool table in his house after a great reference from..........

phil dade said:
A movie about Mosconi's 14:1 Tournament wins or his exhibitions? That is about all I ever heard of, neither seemed too exciting. Leagues certainly have their place for many people, however, I am not one. I would rather watch Lou and JB for $10K large than the US Open 9 ball....at least you know that the winner gets paid. A fictional TV series might work better for revised exposure....many seem to click these days.

Whether it is a game or sport, the money makes it interesting. Please note CJ's point on golf. The prize money in tournament pool is so small it isn't exciting to me. Tournament poker is interesting only because of the prize money but the style of play is far less creative than cash.

Bridge is alot of fun to play. Would you rather see a Bridge game or HS Hold'em? For me the same can be said of pool. I love Big Truck's 1P streams winner take all.

carry on
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Max Eberle is now giving lessons to one of the best Bridge players in the world.....his student is a guy you may have heard of by the name of Bill Gates.

Bill Gates just put a pool table in his house after a great reference from his Bridge instructor. Hmmm....wonder what could be developing?
 
SJDinPHX said:
Well, I'll give you a free pass on repeating and embellishing Fred's good points, but its tough to keep listening to you insist, that "I" always bring him up first...:
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You are confusing me with someone else. In our dealings, that is you and me, you bring him up. It's like you get pizzed at me, then start taking pot shots at Freddy just to pizz me off. I can't say what others have done with you. But with me, that is your MO.

And the "who beat who thing" is not what I was referring. There is a diff between a list of folks someone beat at the table, and others who say I could have beat so and so. Nobody cares who you may have beaten, only who you have played and won or lost. That's a little more interesting to me, and many others.
 
ChicagoRJ said:
You are confusing me with someone else. In our dealings, that is you and me, you bring him up. It's like you get pizzed at me, then start taking pot shots at Freddy just to pizz me off. I can't say what others have done with you. But with me, that is your MO.

And the "who beat who thing" is not what I was referring. There is a diff between a list of folks someone beat at the table, and others who say I could have beat so and so. Nobody cares who you may have beaten, only who you have played and won or lost. That's a little more interesting to me, and many others.
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You couldn't be more WRONG!..It was YOU who constantly 'pizzed' me off, with your endless, butt-in accusations!
...You kept me in permanent 'defense mode'...I think it 'pizzed' YOU off, when you found out I was actually pretty good at it ! :p

Soyanara, again !

PS..I think you may have learned from the 'TOI' salesman, that frequent butt-in's, (with his completely irrelevant, terrible sense of humor) increases exposure for potential sales ?..Maybe if I bought a few boxes of chalk from you, and a few CD's from him...I could have some peace ! :cool:
 
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SJDinPHX said:
You couldn't be more WRONG!..It was YOU who constantly 'pizzed' me off, with your endless, butt-in accusations!
...You kept me in permanent 'defense mode'...I think it 'pizzed' YOU off, when you found out I was actually pretty good at it ! :p

Soyanara, again !

PS..I think you may have learned from the 'TOI' salesman, that frequent butt-in's, (with his completely irrelevant, terrible sense of humor) increases exposure for potential sales ?..Maybe if I bought a few boxes of chalk from you, and a few CD's from him...I could have some peace ! :cool:
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Heck, you even did it in this thread. You starting getting pizzed then threw him out there once again.... too funny. You are pizzed at so many folks, you can't even recall who anymore.... but then again, old age and years of drinking will do that to ya ;)
 
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