Lets Talk about Joints

PoolCueSickness

PoolCueSickness

Registered
Why do a lot of pool player think that a steel joint is
Inferior to other kinds of joints. I always hear players
Bad mouthing a steel joint and saying they can play better
With this kind or that kind of joint. When in reality a lot
of top player Still use steel. And most of the best hitting cues
that I have ever hit with are steel joints. And a lot of the
most desired cue makers still use steel joints.Scruggs, Mottey,
BlackBoar, just to name a few. So I ask, Why all the Hating
With steel joints? It has been said that if you could not see
The joint or hear the sound a joints make that most people
Could not tell a difference. Your thoughts please

Thanks
 
i guess one should never say never, but............

no way do i ever have a cue with a wood to wood joint! just absolutely no way, forget it.

joints are like everything else, everyone has an opinion. like Allison told me, "if its a quality cue, i can play with it!"

DCP
 
I don't hate 'em......on my Szambotis. :D

In all honesty, all I can offer is an opinion from a sellers standpoint. I've been around long enough to see a marked shift in the preference of a lot of the newer players. Some old school still play with steel, but that's the exception rather than the norm these days. The shift is really toward the big pin flat face cues and either linen or ivory joints. They are not as heavy, generally have a livelier hit when compared with steel, and on today's equipment, you don't have to work the rock around as hard as you once did. The trend is toward feel. And face it, making a steel jointed cue with "feel" is getting to be a lost art.

Also, when you are talking higher end cues that might be collected or sparingly played by a hobbyist vs. a pro or semi-pro speed player having something as their daily player, the trend is most certainly towards ivory. When you are talking a $3k cue and up for a new cue today....there is somewhat of a built-in expectation with the buyer is that it will have an ivory joint.
 
I must be a rarity because I don't care for the way wood 2 wood joints hit( the only exception is my Sherm w/ g-10 pin )
 
There's no question that a steel piloted 5/16X14 joint is good enough, in fact everything from a Balabuska to a Schon has been made with that joint, but it is old technology. Whether someone embraces the new technology or not though, is still a matter of personal preference.

I'm a perfect example. 55 years old, started playing with a house cue in '65, played until '82 or so, mostly with steel joints, and then I quit for 25 years. Didn't play a game ! Then I came back this year and I saw phenolic joints and thought they were cheap. I still think G-10 pins look cheap, BUT....BUT, I now prefer a flat faced wood to wood joint with a large pin such as a 3/8X10, 3/8X11, or a radial pin. If it has a phenolic or ivory collar it's still my choice now over steel. Add a medium stiff shaft, like my Olney, and I think the hit can't be beat, even by a Southwest ! I like the hit of my Dayton with an ivory collar and a radial pin almost as well. YMMV...Tom
 
I've played with cues with no joint, flat faced 3/8x10, flat faced radial, uniloc quick release, 5/16x18 flat faced, new lambros ultra, carom style wood screw, and 5/16x14 piloted.

I liked the hit of them all at while I played with them and there was not a shot that I could not make with any one of them. IMO, the joint type only matters for the cuemaker who is balancing out the cue. They are all good joint types and a player who is capable of running racks, whether nineball or straight pool, will do so with whatever they have in their hands.

The only thing that bothers me is when a joint comes slightly loose during play. So far this has only happened to me with uniloc quick release, a radial pin cue that had the threads tapped too loose, and my current 5/16x14 SS scruggs. Although the hit of my scruggs has truly been my favorite of all, the fairly rare loosenings are still enough to make me consider buying another scruggs with a flat faced style to avoid this problem.
 
I don't like the feel or sound of steel jointed cues. I have no idea what's "best" but I know that I do not like the feel or the sound.
 
i have had three (3) wood to wood jointed cues over the last several years. for some reason each and every one of them kept coming loose. used to hate it when i'd forget to give it that little twist to tighten it up before a shot and then feel the vibration once i hit the cue ball. the vibration telling me that the joint is loose again.

so, i take that variable out of the equation and just never, ever play with a wood to wood jointed cue. 0 for 3 is good enough for me. heck, one cuemaker, after i sent it back to him, even said he fixed the cue so it wouldnt come loose anymore. yep, he fixed it, instead of 3-4 shots before it was loose, it was 4-5 before it came loose.

stainless steel and ivory, there ya go.........:cool:

DCP
 
I've had or have a couple of both (steel and phenolic) and like them both. I think the joint is overrated in terms of a cue's feel, i.e. some people on here will say "I won't buy that cue b/c it has a steel joint" (even though it's a great deal and they agree the cue looks great).

I've gone back to a steel joint recently and it feels more comfortable to me, it's probably the sound more than anything. Cueaddicts summed it up well earlier.
 
I feel like I can feel the hit more with a steel joint than plastic or wood joints. I think the steel-to-steel contact creates a better interface for propagating the shock from the hit through the joint and into the butt of cue, as opposed to wood or plastic interfaces which deaden that energy on its way through. I like the increased feedback my right hand seems to get with the steel joint. And I'm not at all convinced it makes any actual difference to the cue ball one way or the other.

-Andrew
 
JimS said:
I don't like the feel or sound of steel jointed cues. I have no idea what's "best" but I know that I do not like the feel or the sound.
Click to expand...

I can identify with this. If I do find a steel jointed cue that I like, it's because the sound is almost unnoticeable, and the feel is similar to the flat faced cues I've played with. In other words, if feels like a one piece cue. I admit that these are few and far between for me. Good examples would be the Joss East that was my first custom cue, some Joss West cues that I've hit, one Mottey, and the Andy Gilbert that I no longer own. I've always hated the way Schon cues sound and feel. Most steel jointed cues I'm not comfortable with.
 
please more information

andrew, i think i read your thread correct, please correct me if i'm wrong. you are saying the feedback from the impact at the end of the shaft traveling down the wood shaft passing in and out of a piece of steel back into wood then into your hand, is better than the same feedback passing through only two pieces of wood. then will a cue with a steel joint deliver more feedback than a solid one piece cue?
 
desi2960 said:
andrew, i think i read your thread correct, please correct me if i'm wrong. you are saying the feedback from the impact at the end of the shaft traveling down the wood shaft passing in and out of a piece of steel back into wood then into your hand, is better than the same feedback passing through only two pieces of wood. then will a cue with a steel joint deliver more feedback than a solid one piece cue?
Click to expand...

Yeah, you read right, I do think the wood-steel-wood interface propagates shock more efficiently than wood-wood or wood-phenolic-wood. I might just be making that up, but that's how it feels to me.

But comparing that to no interface at all, I don't know. I do feel that my steel-joint cue gives me more feedback than a 1-piece house cue, but the house cues usually have dead tips and odd tapers, so that probably has more to do with it than the difference between steel joint vs. no joint. If you could make a one-piece cue with the same taper and tip as my cue, then we could have a comparison.

-Andrew
 
cueaddicts said:
I don't hate 'em......on my Szambotis. :D

In all honesty, all I can offer is an opinion from a sellers standpoint. I've been around long enough to see a marked shift in the preference of a lot of the newer players. Some old school still play with steel, but that's the exception rather than the norm these days. The shift is really toward the big pin flat face cues and either linen or ivory joints. They are not as heavy, generally have a livelier hit when compared with steel, and on today's equipment, you don't have to work the rock around as hard as you once did. The trend is toward feel. And face it, making a steel jointed cue with "feel" is getting to be a lost art.
Click to expand...

I find that the older players tend to order the stainless steel joint. I used to play with them exclusively but have found I like the play of the phenolic I build better.
 
Andrew Manning said:
I feel like I can feel the hit more with a steel joint than plastic or wood joints. I think the steel-to-steel contact creates a better interface for propagating the shock from the hit through the joint and into the butt of cue, as opposed to wood or plastic interfaces which deaden that energy on its way through. I like the increased feedback my right hand seems to get with the steel joint. And I'm not at all convinced it makes any actual difference to the cue ball one way or the other.

-Andrew
Click to expand...

Same here. Vibration is good; it's called feedback. :D
 
Attempted a search but failed to find the thread that discussed the controlled test of various joints at a pro event. The joints were all taped over to hide the type of joint and the vast majority of the pros guessed wrong after test hitting. If I can find the thread describing this controlled test later will post the link.

Maybe my hands are numb but I feel very little difference between wood to wood, steel joints, phenolic etc.... should I see my physician??
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top