Let's talk rosewood

JoeyInCali said:
Coring Brazilian rosewood with plywood should be a felony.

p.s.If you've only seen crotch wood BRW, you haven't seen the real good ones.
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Using a laminated maple dowel for handles on A- joint cues and for dowels on fully cored cues is a practice used by many experienced cue makers because of it's true reputation for providing an extreme stability to a cue blank. Coring cues with full length dowels is a practice that virtually guarantees the cue maker piece if mind that his cue will remain straight due to this internal construction. Using laminated maple handles on A-Joint cues with wraps also brings a huge degree of stability to those blanks.

Real Laminated maple dowels are sometimes confused as plywood by uniformed persons without experience with the valuable attributes of these dowel stock components. Maple plywood on the other hand is basically a thin layers of maple on the outside of Doug Fir layers on the inside. While it may make a very pretty entertainment center furniture, it should not be used for coring a cue or turning stock for a handle on an A-Joint constructed blank.

BRW as a stock material is stable material but will shrink ( about 3% ) and therefore has a slight propensity to move and can therefore produce a warped blank downstream under certain situations an circumstances. Therefore not coring it is brings a percentage factor in the mix for downstream failure or blank warpage ( like any other uncored wood ) no matter how much urban legend or mystical notions people perceive concerning an overpriced piece of wood that is limited due to low end supply numbers created by deforestation and conservation politics.

If you study the average physical numbers related to BRW and compare it to many other rosewood family turning blanks, the difference is not that big of a deal. Therefore one could have a piece of Cocobolo, Kingwood, ect that is much better that a peticular piece of BRW. Every tree is different due to the many factors concerning the site specific location of it's growth.

Many CM's view and profess BRW as some panicia to making the perfect cue or whatever. If this is the case, why not use it exclusivly and bring the Magic to every cue. It is my opinion and experience that while BRW is a great material to use for a forearm turning blank, it is not as special as the colective cheerleaders of BRW view it. It is only a piece of wood and some are better than others.

JMO,

Rick
 
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scdiveteam said:
I too believe BRW is over rated and too expensive for what you get. Rick
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skins said:
That's a main reason why many makers stopped using it in the late 80's and 90's... The good stuff was just to hard to find and expensive for what you received... Sort of similar to what's starting to happen with ebony...
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Am I the only one or am I nuts? The "main reason" is because it was "over rated and too expensive"? That is just plain wrong, I'm sorry. It wasn't overrated or too expensive in the 80's and 90's or even today IMHO of course.

Brazilian was always a great choice as is ebony. They are actually among the two best choices along with African blackwood. The real problem is cue makers and the end users; not the wood. The cue makers, in many instances are tighter than a clam with their pocket books (and for good reason in many instances). Reason being, they can only get so much for a cue and why would a cue maker use Brazilian when he can get away with plain rosewood and more importantly the end user doesn't want to pay for the product.

BR was always in great demand at a price point and now since that price point is higher, many don't want to use it and are looking for any excuse to not use it. If it was good back then it's still good now as is ebony. If you want real ebony in your cue, then pay for it or settle for streaked ebony, purpleheart dyed black, etc, etc, etc.

If you want BR in a cue, then pay for it and charge the price. If you can't get the premium price, then you don't need to be making cues with BR. There are only a select few who can get the premium for BR; not everyone out there can. Another way to look at it is that you can still charge the same as you would for any cue but take a slightly lower mark up. I mean, if you're selling a $1000 cue does it really matter if your front wood costs $15 or $45 or $90? Don't let me get into the actual profit in selling a cue when built by a cue maker. This is what I call giving your customer added value.

Some cue makers want to use the cheapest woods available to maximize profits and so they tout woods few have ever heard of. I could write a book. The problem is, the end user is in many cases, no better than the cue makers who spew misinformation for his own enlightened self-interest.
 
Just to show you what a swell guy I am I will offer up a piece of superior East Indian rosewood for every piece of substandard Brazilian you send me.

Email me for my address.

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JoeyInCali said:
How about some plywood?
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Rosewood gets cored with rosewood if needed. Purpleheart gets cored with purpleheart. Sometimes I will use maple in a maple or ebony front but PH and Rosewood are my go to core woods.

Oh, and for the record I cracked the beer AFTER I was done gluing. No drinking and operating spinning machines.

 
Joe Barringer said:
Am I the only one or am I nuts? The "main reason" is because it was "over rated and too expensive"? That is just plain wrong, I'm sorry. It wasn't overrated or too expensive in the 80's and 90's or even today IMHO of course.

Brazilian was always a great choice as is ebony. They are actually among the two best choices along with African blackwood. The real problem is cue makers and the end users; not the wood. The cue makers, in many instances are tighter than a clam with their pocket books (and for good reason in many instances). Reason being, they can only get so much for a cue and why would a cue maker use Brazilian when he can get away with plain rosewood and more importantly the end user doesn't want to pay for the product.

BR was always in great demand at a price point and now since that price point is higher, many don't want to use it and are looking for any excuse to not use it. If it was good back then it's still good now as is ebony. If you want real ebony in your cue, then pay for it or settle for streaked ebony, purpleheart dyed black, etc, etc, etc.

If you want BR in a cue, then pay for it and charge the price. If you can't get the premium price, then you don't need to be making cues with BR. There are only a select few who can get the premium for BR; not everyone out there can. Another way to look at it is that you can still charge the same as you would for any cue but take a slightly lower mark up. I mean, if you're selling a $1000 cue does it really matter if your front wood costs $15 or $45 or $90? Don't let me get into the actual profit in selling a cue when built by a cue maker. This is what I call giving your customer added value.

Some cue makers want to use the cheapest woods available to maximize profits and so they tout woods few have ever heard of. I could write a book. The problem is, the end user is in many cases, no better than the cue makers who spew misinformation for his own enlightened self-interest.
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You basically said what I said but took a novel to do it... Except for the overated part... Not true
 
Murray Tucker said:
Rosewood gets cored with rosewood if needed. Purpleheart gets cored with purpleheart. Sometimes I will use maple in a maple or ebony front but PH and Rosewood are my go to core woods.

Oh, and for the record I cracked the beer AFTER I was done gluing. No drinking and operating spinning machines.

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But,but they resonate too much. It might give you arthritis .😀
 
skins said:
ok....let me put it another way, the demand is not there because of the supply... That was my point. You can want but "probability" say's you can't have..It's not worth it to search..That's what Bill Schick told me was the issue in the late 80's... The "good" stuff just ain't out there for pool cues. Not because someone else has it. It's just not available..

Skins ----------still has some killer BRW..;)
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Perfect example number two.

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"let me put it another way, the demand is not there because of the supply... "
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am sure this is not Rocket Science - but it is increasingly obvious you don't
come close to grasping the most basic concept of how and why "Supply and Demand"
works, or even what the terms mean.

Dale
 
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=366924&highlight=rosewood
Bob had a bunch of BRW's. I bought a bunch.
About two years ago, Cook woods had some. Not quite as nice as Bob's.
A few years ago, someone was actually selling nice pieces on Ebay directly from Brazil. I got some . Nice orange streaks too.
Most I've seen are the really dark kind that were taken from posts or ceiling beams . A lot of them were cross cut. You really have to offset them to follow the grain. Lots of waste.
We can argue all year about BRW's resonance and why it's so desired by cue makers AND guitar makers. Not worth it .
The question why cue makers just don't use it exclusively is as dumb as it gets.
You can't get good enough quantity of them at a good price . That's like asking why don't we all use mastodon ivory collars exclusively ?
Let's get the hype of flat laminated maple out of the way. Please. They are used b/c it makes cue building faster. I've come across a bunch of flat lams from Quality Cuts and Dufferin. I sold them all. They were good for break shafts . I could have used them and make life simpler by using them as one-piece core the length of the cue. Didn't do it . If you like it that construction, more power to you.
There are other great woods for cues of course. A bunch of them.
 
I would love to hear what Eric Crisp has to say about this topic... it would be nice if you could tag people on AZB like you can on FB lol
 
I don't mean to sound condescending but for lack of better words:
For those of you who don't have a clue and for those of you who think you have a clue, here is what a high grade stick of Brazilian Rosewood looks like. Anything else is crapola and you may as well use Honduras Rosewood.


 
pdcue said:
Perfect example number two.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"let me put it another way, the demand is not there because of the supply... "
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am sure this is not Rocket Science - but it is increasingly obvious you don't
come close to grasping the most basic concept of how and why "Supply and Demand"
works, or even what the terms mean.

Dale
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Dale, if you don't understand what I'm saying then I think it's you sir who can't grasp.. I'm done with trying to explain... Be well, have fun making cues, and continue to flame on if you'd like...

Skins --------- grasps many things.. Ouch! :embarrassed2:
 
Joe Barringer said:
I don't mean to sound condescending but for lack of better words:
For those of you who don't have a clue and for those of you who think you have a clue, here is what a high grade stick of Brazilian Rosewood looks like. Anything else is crapola and you may as well use Honduras Rosewood.


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Here's what quality BR looks like finished..... Just to make things clear, it's because of this cue ( Bill says most likely his only BR nosed cue ) and the conversation I had with him about it that I base some of my thoughts... All Skate...







 
Murray Tucker said:
Rosewood gets cored with rosewood if needed. Purpleheart gets cored with purpleheart. Sometimes I will use maple in a maple or ebony front but PH and Rosewood are my go to core woods.

Oh, and for the record I cracked the beer AFTER I was done gluing. No drinking and operating spinning machines.

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Sorry Murray that you call that beer. But if that all is what is available I guess you just have to make do.

I like the way you do the concentric laminated wood.
Neil
 
Good beer is wasted on me. Give me a colors light or bud light and I am happy.

Pinot noir.......,now that is another matter.
 
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