Let's talk tips! Whats the difference!
- Thread starter DGHustles
- Start date
For me,I'm slowly leaning towards leather tips again.I miscue less and don't worry about picking a leather tip or doing any type of shaping with them.Layered tips are more sensitive and find any work done by hand can cause delamination or more issues in general.Not saying layered tips are bad but between LePro,triangle,and the pressed Elks or milkduds and even water buffalo's for the guys who like much harder tips there's really no need for Layered tips unless you like to try tips out for fun.Leather tips are also cost effective and some great pros like Efren played with a leather tip and believe he still does.
Just so I understand you, your talking about single layer tips vs multi layered tips right? They are both made of leather.
I actually like a certain type of layered tip because it doesn't need constant maintenance and it feels good to me. Most people will contend that a softer tip will grab the CB better than a hard one. A hard tip gives a more crisp feedback than a softer one.
I chose my tip based on durability and performance.
Your right,I'm talking about single layered tips vs multi-layered.Within the last year I've had more issues with multi- layered tips than I've ever had before and Kamui's seem to be the tip that causes the most issues for guys in my area,specially with miscuing and glazing over.Could be a coincidence,who knows?
I wonder if the glazing is due more to the way the tip was made, not being maintained or how the person plays, ie hits em hard? I have done allot of tip repairs for people in my area and I always look at the tip I take off to see if it was maintained or abused.
I just got a phone call from a top cue maker and he was talking about tips and a discovery he just made. I cant say who or what exactly. I'll say what I can it was a 45 minute call, I just now got off the phone.
He was talking about the lubricity of the fibers within a tip.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubricity
And how that effects the life span of a tip and how it effects the hit of a tip. Also the fat content of the leather. Infact I had noticed on some tips that the ones with more (what seemed to appear to look like oils) lasted better and didnt glaze over as often. We were talking about how to take and reduce the friction with in the tip when it compresses to extend the life of the tip and reduce the mushroom effect. Tips mushroom when the fibers break down. Tall tips create longer contact time with the CB therefore more spin but dont last to long. so the plan is to develop a tip that wont shroom out and hold its shape and not glaze over. Thats no easy task. He is playing with some ideas now to see if we can achieve that.
When I can I'll elaborate more as of now, I cant say anything more. But thats the general theory and plan. I also believe that there is no such thing as the perfect tip, some players like layered tips, hard, soft, medium, etc. and the tip also has to match the hit of the cue. so there is no one size fits all in tips, there will always be different opinions and options for every player.
I play with pressed Elk Masters "Milk Duds" (Med-Hard/Hard-Hard), the ones I use in particular are made by a cue maker, Adam Franks. He uses a different method than what most others use and produces. Finished product that performs unlike anything I've ever seen. They are Hard tips that grab the cb like a soft tip would which increases spin when needed and they keep their shape which demands no maintenance. They're also ver responsive and they deliver alot of feedback through the cue to the the shooter. My current tip has between 100-125 hours on it and I use it for breaking and playing and I haven't done anything to it and it holds chalk and everything. I've been helping him sell them on the open market, which he has never done before, send me a PM if you're interested in trying them out.
I like a tip that holds chalk and doesn't make me look at it after I shoot.
Yup ^^
Just important that it holds the chalk, and doesn t really mushroom that often.
lg
Ingo
good to see a post from you always value youre insight havent seen a lot of posts from you lately or maybe im not very observant but good see ya again. If you get those tips worked out let me know might even get me off of my tiger onyx but it would have to be good cause i really like the onyx.
I had two shafts made for the same butt and I suspected that the Sniper tips on there were too soft. You could make a dint with your fingernail. Too me it grabbed too much and put unwanted/unexpected spin on the cueball.
So to experiment, I just put a hard Moori and hard Talisman on yesterday. Yes, it is true. The soft tips were grabbing too much, and when you hard you could feel them mush. I also put on a LePro - this tip sucks compared to the moori and Talisman.
The hard tips draw just as well, the Moori slightly better. The hit on hard shots has a more hard feeling with more control. Overall, I like the feel of the Moori much better, as the Talisman will 'clack' every once in a while using hard bottom english.
Hope this helps.
I just bought a Willard Tip machine so that I could play around with different tips. Just put a Kamui super soft on my 11.2 mm shaft and the tip plays well - slightly more soft than a Moori medium. I figured with a small diameter tip a softer tip would help cut down on any misues (on this I will defer to the AZ experts because I really don't know).
I currently use elkmaster milkduds. Soft to made into a medium/hard tip. Grabs chalk like a soft tip but I get the action of a harder piece of leather. Got sick of these laminated tips constantly glazing over causing constant miscues. Multilayered tips being consistent right being put on? Yes. But then you deal with all the bad right after. I would honestly like to see a single layered tip come out that keeps it's shape , free of mushrooming.
For now, I'd rather deal with using my milkdud for a few days before shaving and burnishing the sides again after the install knowing that the performance and tip is set just fine for the 6 months or more.
For now, I'd rather deal with using my milkdud for a few days before shaving and burnishing the sides again after the install knowing that the performance and tip is set just fine for the 6 months or more.
That is an interesting observation about the "fat" or "oils" in leather. Many, many years ago I met a road player who gave me the first Le Pro tip I ever used. When preparing his tip, one of the things he did was color the sides of it with black shoe polish or a black marker before he burnished it. The other thing he did to keep his tip from becoming too hard or glazed over was to put a drop of sewing machine oil on it (the playing surface) and let it soak in over night every once in a while. I have been doing that for 40 years now and it seems to keep the tip "lubricated". LOL.
A tip (NO PUN INTENDED) for those who may decide to try this: Scuff the tip up and only put one drop...do not over do it. Do not play with the shaft for at least a day to ensure the oil soaks down into the leather.
The tip may seem a bit slippery the first time you use it, but after a few minutes play the chalk will cover the tip enough to keep you from miscueing.
I've used every type of oil...sewing machine oil, shaving clipper oil, 3 and 1 oil, and even vegetable cooking oil if I didn't have anything else handy.
Try at your own risk. I've only done this with Le Pro tips and Moori tips.