Lift the ban bca!!!!!!

[Tom In Cincy]

More of my opinions.


The game of billiardsIt's Pocket Billiards, billiards is played with two white balls and a red ball on a billiard table without pockets is a game with jump shots. If you dont like it then you probably cant jump. so if I am for the rule, I probably can't jump? wrong, I can jump with a full cue, no jump cue. Some of these people argue they spent time learning how to kick. Well I spent time learning how to correctly jump with a slew of tips and now some of my favorites are illegal.Anyone, even non-pool players can learn how to jump a full ball using a jump cue, in less than 10 minutes.

The BCA's goal is to figure out how to better elevate and excel the game in the states. Here I think they might want to see more money get poured into the industry by all of us going and getting new cues and tips and shafts. How do you know what the BCA's goals are? Please provide your source

The BCAPL argues Are you making this up? where and when did the BCAPL argue this? that these tips fracture and crack cue balls. The funny part here is that most rooms that hold leagues already pay there own costs and normally have degrading 10 year old equipment anyway. The BCAPL would only have to purchase tables from Diamond on very rare instances. These tables would then be resold back to the public above cost and under retail. So the BCAPL isnt loosing money here!!! All conjecture on your part, no proof, just you guessing

Diamond and the BCAPL have a long standing friendly relationship. I believe the owners may even have stock in each others seperate entities. This means that BCAPLs owner makes money by buying the diamond tables that his league plays on. LOL It would make sense that he does this with league member dues. If you did a little more research rather than guessing you would already know that Mark Griffin (ower BCAPL) and Greg Sullivan (founder and owner of Diamond tables since the late 80s) have been partners for almost 20 years in the Diamond table business. There are plenty of business reasons for them to promote and offer Diamond tables and they have a perfect right to protect their investment as they see fit.

So where is the cost hurting the BCAPL? I just dont see it. Does this mean if you understood their reasoning and their practical efforts you would agree? I think their maybe a connection here.You bet there is a connection.

Do you know anything about the APA and its dealings with Brunswick tables?
The APA also makes its own rules, just like the TAP and VNEA amateur organizations. Why do you pick on the BCAPL? because you have a phenolic tip?

That's a real good reason. :frown:

 

[Celtic]

I don't mean to be picky ... but, how does the banning of phenolic tips affect kick shots? I consider myself to be more of a kicker than a jumper, so I'm just curious.

Exactly, or masse for that matter. It will piss off the jumpers, but those CUES are messing up the game of 8-ball as it is with people having a savior for when they play miserable shape.

When Robin Dodson and Jeanette Lee are showing people how easy it is for a 3 year old to make a full ball jump and make a ball with their jump cue something IS wrong with that.

The BCA had a sheet to fill out at the commencement of the event asking people if they wanted various changes, jump cues, green fees, AND phelonic tips. If the sheets came back and a majority of the people wanted those tips banned then they should be banned.

Pool is NOT golf, the games purity is ruined by people having a case full of various cues all gimmicked up to make specific shots. The game use to be magical how a person could take one single regular cue and make masse shots, amazing kicks, full cue jump shots, ect...

Now the game is being ruined and all of that skill it took to learn to master all of the various shots with a regular playing is being lost, replaced with friggin gimmicks.

WAY TO GO BCA, bring back the purity of the game.

 

[Celtic]

I generally carry a break cue with a phenolic that doubles as a full table jumper, I dont think a leather tip will give me the same ball hoping action off the rack. I usually skip the ball and try to get it to plant back in the center(see ish) of the table. Yes this can be dangerous especially if you happend to be around my table during the first round at the May Fast Eddies tour. LOL:sorry:

I usually use a Danny Spates jumper for medoum shots and for varrying landing styles and tougher shots. I can jump draw very easily with it, most any jump will be pocketed and give shape. Now I say that becouse a jump that is too tough normally becomes a kick.:wink:

I just got a chilton flying eagle for dart style jumping. I can clear a ball that is within a chalk width from the impeding object ball. I have spent many hours learning how to shoot with phenolic resins. Most anyone that plays with me would tell you I have an extremly high success rate at any level. Now im not a great player and thats why I have these techniques. Now im going to have to go back and switch some of my tips and relearn the stroke and then adjust to there hit and english. Im just saying I have addapted my game to take full advantage of my options I dont like this new rule just my opinion. :angry:

It's "just my opinion" but all of that just makes me think equipment collection like you are talking about making your cue case more like a golf bag full of clubs, and players like you are ruining the purity this sport once had.

The more gimmick shafts, gimmick cues, and other crap they bring in they even out the playing field more and more and make it harder for the cream to rise to the top, and this sport has a tough enough time with that already.

 

[Celtic]

Honestly letters, and e-mails to the BCA may help, <<<<<----- There is a link for addreses, and e-mails. USE it!!!!

I used it, I commended them for the change.

 

[Celtic]

PS if I EVER see a opponent of mine pull out a http://www.jump-buddy.com/ and it is actually legal I am going to puke. This is EXACTLY what I am talking about with gimmicks and bull crap wrecking this game. Whats next, a long sleeve shirt with a carbon frame that does not allow the player to twist their stroke at all and basically forces the perfect pendulum stroke?

Wait! I have it, lets get robots that we control via remote to shoot the pool for us, and after the match is over they fight to the death ala Robotwars, that is sure to send this sport through the roof of popularity, everyone loves robots!

 

[cardiac kid]

Do you know anything about the APA and its dealings with Brunswick tables?

Tom,

Until Mark Griffin purchased the BCA Pool League five years ago, APA was using Diamond tables at their National events. The excuse I hear is they wanted bigger pockets than stock and Diamond refused to change their design spec's. Thats their story. My guess is APA did not wish to support BCAPL in any way! Can you blame them?

Brunswick owns Valley. APA now uses Valley tables at their National events. This "partnership" gets really silly. At the Allen Hopkins Super Billiards Expo this year, there was an APA booth set up to recruit new members and say hello to existing ones. Every other table in the Expo center was a Diamond (approx 150 +/-). APA had to bring in a Valley for it's booth. Any questions?

Some of these posters just refuse to understand. It is BCAPL's sandbox. They make the rules. It doesn't matter why they make them. If you don't like the rules, don't play. Go play TAP, APA, ACS, VNEA, etc. I think it is a product of the most recent generations. Me, me, me!

Lyn

 

[ShootingRazbone]

ooh! ooh! ooh! then... maybe they'll say we can't play pool at all because it wears out the cloth! LOL, please don't feel like I'm attacking you, but I seriously hope you are kidding w/ this statement....

You are attacking the man along with quite a few others, BVal included (I only could ever hope for a stroke like his lol)... The man has an opinion on the rules the same as all of us do. Berating the man for his is unexceptable in my OPINION! You can simply state yours without trying to make him look foolish.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't read/heard anyone talk about eliminating jumping from the game entirely... all I've read is people saying that you can achieve the same results using leather tips as opposed to phenolic tips....

ok... your wrong....

wish every tour would ban phenolic tips. it takes alot more skill and knowledge to kick than it does to use a gaffed tip to jump with.

Bah, I hate jumping. No offense to jumpers, just not my thing. Anyhow, I'm a kicker myself, btw, you can use any tip to kick, and not that I masse too much out of neccessity, but you can do that with leather, too.

People didn't always have phenolic, or break cues, or G-10, etc. They played pool just as damn well before all that. We lived without all this stuff, once upon a time. Maybe I'm just speaking nonsense, but that's just what I think.

Woohoo, I agree with it 100%. Ban them. It means I'll probably never be able to jump again, but I support this decision absolutely. I'll gladly see my jump cues and phenolic break shafts sit on my rack collecting dust forever. I use phenolic now because you have to, but I see it like the 3 point shot in basketball, aluminum bats and the "DH" in baseball, and regular season overtimes in football (tie is a legit score); they should all be eliminated.

heres some entire threads for your enjoyment....


http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=136855&highlight=jump+cues

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=87904&highlight=jump+cues

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=87904&highlight=jump+cues&page=3

Again... I hope you are kidding and don't seriously believe this... those are some pretty radical statements.

This is a pretty radical statement here as well. Go ahead and question his sanity while your at it. What I find hilarious is all the statements I read from the so called purists (who probably use a preditor or OB1 shaft mind you) who say adapt to whatever the rules are THIS WEEK! No sir, I say.... you adapt to new technology.... works both ways, not just your way. This IS the 21st century!! I love a good horse.... doesnt mean I won't drive a nice caddy.
BCAPL operators do ok.... spend a little for a FEW cueballs HELL NO... make the players spend more money on Tips, Ferrules, and new Break Sticks. geeeez

 

[Celtic]

and not that I masse too much out of neccessity, but you can do that with leather, too.

BTW masse with a phenolic tip would be idiotic. It would be vastly harder to hit a good masse shot with phenolic as compared to leather. You want alot of tip contact and spin production on a masse shot, something a phenolic tip is designed specifically not to do.

 

[Tom In Cincy]

Lyn,
I had heare that story a few years back.

The association with APA and Brunswick did raise a few eyebrows in the 'industry'. Business protecting itself from competition.
Locking into a contract does tend to squeeze out the competition. But wait until the contract is over.

Tom,

Until Mark Griffin purchased the BCA Pool League five years ago, APA was using Diamond tables at their National events. The excuse I hear is they wanted bigger pockets than stock and Diamond refused to change their design spec's. Thats their story. My guess is APA did not wish to support BCAPL in any way! Can you blame them?

Brunswick owns Valley. APA now uses Valley tables at their National events. This "partnership" gets really silly. At the Allen Hopkins Super Billiards Expo this year, there was an APA booth set up to recruit new members and say hello to existing ones. Every other table in the Expo center was a Diamond (approx 150 +/-). APA had to bring in a Valley for it's booth. Any questions?

Some of these posters just refuse to understand.

I agree Lyn, some of these posters just like to spout their opinions (even tho the facts speak otherwise) about what they think is suppose to be

It is BCAPL's sandbox. They make the rules. It doesn't matter why they make them.
These rules were not made to anger phenolic tip owners or the retailer, distribution and manufactures.

If you don't like the rules, don't play. Go play TAP, APA, ACS, VNEA, etc. I think it is a product of the most recent generations. Me, me, me!

Lyn

 

[cardiac kid]

The BCA's goal is to figure out how to better elevate and excel the game in the states. Here I think they might want to see more money get poured into the industry by all of us going and getting new cues and tips and shafts.

You're correct, that is the purpose of the BCA!

The BCAPL argues that these tips fracture and crack cue balls. The funny part here is that most rooms that hold leagues already pay there own costs and normally have degrading 10 year old equipment anyway. The BCAPL would only have to purchase tables from Diamond on very rare instances. These tables would then be resold back to the public above cost and under retail. So the BCAPL isnt loosing money here!!!

We are not talking about damage to the tables. Aramith is the manufacurer of the billiard balls used by BCAPL at their National events. Complain to them, not Diamond or BCAPL.

Diamond and the BCAPL have a long standing friendly relationship. I believe the owners may even have stock in each others seperate entities. This means that BCAPLs owner makes money by buying the diamond tables that his league plays on. LOL It would make sense that he does this with league member dues. So where is the cost hurting the BCAPL? I just dont see it. I think their maybe a connection here.

The tables used at the National Event are not owned by the BCAPL. Bad Boyz Productions owns the tables just as High Country Promotions owns the Valley tables used at all the other Nationals. They make money by charging us $1.00 per game for the use of the tables!

Lyn

 

[cardiac kid]

Lyn,
I had heare that story a few years back.

The association with APA and Brunswick did raise a few eyebrows in the 'industry'. Business protecting itself from competition.
Locking into a contract does tend to squeeze out the competition. But wait until the contract is over.

Tom,

It's great to hear from you. I've been in Sactown several times since I met you. My family came first. Just never found the time to stop by Hard Times and say hello. Fly in first thing in the morning. Fly home on the last flight back to Vegas. I should be back in November. I'll stop by for sure! Keep doing the great job.

Lyn

 

[ShootingRazbone]

Do you know anything about the APA and its dealings with Brunswick tables?
The APA also makes its own rules, just like the TAP and VNEA amateur organizations. Why do you pick on the BCAPL? because you have a phenolic tip?

That's a real good reason. :frown:

Thats EXACTLY the reason why he made this thread.... If I actually played in the BCAPL I would be slighty miffed as well..... My break stick has a Phenolic tip... Most of the tournaments and leagues allow them....now 5000 players have to change because this mythical damage to hundreds of THEIR cueballs which is costing them huge losses. wtf?

I do agree with the opinion that it is their league and they can take their ball and go home if they choose. Nothing to say about that really. Just have to deal... doesn't mean we have to agree. Also doesn't mean we have to be snippy with others if we don't.

 

[Rich93]

Honestly letters, and e-mails to the BCA may help, <<<<<----- There is a link for addreses, and e-mails. USE it!!!!

I used it, I commended them for the change.

Thanks for the suggestion, Celtic. I just commended them also.

 

[Tom In Cincy]

So, you don't play in the BCAPL? do you object to any rules other than the BCAPL? or are you just picking on the BCAPL?

Thats EXACTLY the reason why he made this thread....

I wonder if the original poster even has a rule book?

If I actually played in the BCAPL I would be slighty miffed as well..... My break stick has a Phenolic tip... Most of the tournaments and leagues allow them....
Would you please list all of the "MOST of the tournaments and Leagues" you say allow them? or are you just guessing?

now 5000 players have to change because this mythical damage to hundreds of THEIR cueballs which is costing them huge losses. wtf?

WTF exaggerating facts and reasons? How do you know it is because it of damages and HUGE costs. Who did the testing? or is this just your OPINION you want everyone to agree with?


I do agree with the opinion that it is their league and they can take their ball and go home if they choose. Nothing to say about that really. Just have to deal... doesn't mean we have to agree. Also doesn't mean we have to be snippy with others if we don't.

 

[cardiac kid]

Most of the tournaments and leagues allow them....now 5000 players have to change because this mythical damage to hundreds of THEIR cueballs which is costing them huge losses. wtf?

I challenge you to out break me. You can have your phenolic tip and custom break cue. When I'm on the East Coast, I'll use my Schon with a stock shaft and tip. On the West Coast, I have a fifteen year old Mc Dermott with the original tip. Those who played me in the Super Billiards Expo, BCAPL and ACS National events will tell you, breaking is not my shortcoming. Like every facet of the game, I practice my breaks. I'm just trying to keep even with the young players. I've tried the new technologies. I break no better. It sounds like I do but I don't count more balls falling or better cue ball control . I feel it is the same as the decades old cue question. Which plays better, my entry level Schon, their top of the line $5000 cue or a one off $20k super custom? It's the player stupid!

Lyn

 

[rayjay]

Just FYI...Valley was recently sold to a private company that also makes shuffleboard and foosball games, according to the most recent Billiards Digest. Brunswick no longer ownes it.

 

[LA toolman]

don't care either way

I could jump and break ok before I got my Stinger with the
(patented phenolic tip ferule system),and i do really really like it.
But now there is a ban, even though I don't play bca at this time,
I think other leagues,TD's, room owners may follow suit.
After I have seen the pictures of the cue balls with small hairline fractures,
I checked my Own Qball at home.I didn't' see any,
so I started breaking every time at the same spot on the Q ball.
My Q ball is over 30 years old and I think its a centenial.
Any how I will post Pics when I eventually split it right in half.

 

[ShootingRazbone]

So, you don't play in the BCAPL? do you object to any rules other than the BCAPL? or are you just picking on the BCAPL?

No, I'm posting because you and some others are incenerating the guy for having an opinion unlike your own. I could really care less about the rule change quite frankly. (As I said I don't play BCAPL...thought I made that clear?)

I agree Lyn, some of these posters just like to spout their opinions (even tho the facts speak otherwise) about what they think is suppose to be

What facts lmao? Some of these posters? Like yourself for posting what you think its supposed to be? Your different? How?

I wonder if the original poster even has a rule book?

What does that have ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING? Put the keyboard down before you hurt yourself!

Would you please list all of the "MOST of the tournaments and Leagues" you say allow them? or are you just guessing?

The World Pool-Billiard Association
Tap
The Jacoby Tour
The Great Southern Billiard Tour
VNEA (last year at least)
BCAPL up until now (why should I have anything other then what I have now)
Seminole Pro Tour ---- "Mills Jumps for Billiards Victory
Seminole Pro Tour / Holiday, FL"
Predator 9 Ball Tour
KF
The Super Billiard Expo (last I checked, I could be wrong about this one)

Here's one for ya.... Tony Crosby's Blog http://tonycrosby.com/

"I have been a little slack lately with updating my blog. The last couple of months have been hectic, I have been working very hard off the table instead of on it and it is begging to show in my game which is frustrating. As many of you know I run www.strokeitwear.com also the tour www.kfcuetour.com I have been working very hard on a new project with Corey Deuel and several other high Profile players including Dennis Hatch to bring out and Develop a new line of cues www.conceptcues.com . I have incorporated the Sniper Break Jump cue which now comes in 4 styles brown, black with or without wraps. This break Jump cue is already being used by some of the best players in the World."

Jesus dude... I can go on and on here... can't you google it or something?

WTF exaggerating facts and reasons? How do you know it is because it of damages and HUGE costs. Who did the testing? or is this just your OPINION you want everyone to agree with?

Look guy... Have you even read ANY posts here at all? I count at least 5 posts in this thread stating that it is the damage to the balls thats causing this rule change. IT AIN"T ME SMART GUY! I plainly stated if this was the cause of the rule change then my OPINION is it's horse&%@!. If you know the real answer then please... enlighten us oh great one... give it to us....the answer....waiting?
If you have a problem with my OPINION, which you clearly have with anyone who doesn't agree with you, then thats on you, sorry. Take a nap.

 

[ShootingRazbone]

I challenge you to out break me. You can have your phenolic tip and custom break cue. When I'm on the East Coast, I'll use my Schon with a stock shaft and tip. On the West Coast, I have a fifteen year old Mc Dermott with the original tip. Those who played me in the Super Billiards Expo, BCAPL and ACS National events will tell you, breaking is not my shortcoming. Like every facet of the game, I practice my breaks. I'm just trying to keep even with the young players. I've tried the new technologies. I break no better. It sounds like I do but I don't count more balls falling or better cue ball control . I feel it is the same as the decades old cue question. Which plays better, my entry level Schon, their top of the line $5000 cue or a one off $20k super custom? It's the player stupid!

Lyn

No....I ain't you... nor is the guy next to you or the guy across the room from you... Nor anyone else on this forum! Nobody else is you.... Everyone is different (in case you didn't notice) You either hit a golf ball 300 yards or you don't.... you either throw a baseball 95 miles an hour or you don't. You have a good break or you need some effin help....If you can break well with your shitty schon then GREAT. I happen to like my break stick which was legal last I checked.....Do I like breaking with MY SCHON.... NO...
Can Bobby Jones hit a golf ball as long as Tiger Woods with the clubs he used back then.... Hell No.....could he do it today?... probably with the new technology.... If Phenolic tips did't help then they wouldn't be selling. If Jump cues didn't help then they wouldn't be selling, stupid!

 

[PaulAlex7000]

I'm not quite clear about this ruling. This is only for phenolic tips, right? What does a Mezz PB2 use? On Pooldawg's web site (http://www.pooldawg.com/product/mezz-zzpb2-power-break-ii-pool-cue-stick), it said a super hard Black Ingot tip; I've no idea if that is leather or not...

Also, I assume I can replace the tip on a J&J J/B cue with a leather tip without issue?