Is there any way we can maybe get an insiders view of your match with Marcus? I watched part of it and just curious as to your thoughts on it all.Thanks
Lil Jon
- Thread starter sweatinNbettin
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That would be very interesting indeed,if im not mistaken Lil John played Tony Chohan a year or two ago,getting the 6 or 7 i may be wrong.but if so,i think marcus,scott,gabe,put T-Rex in the box. i did however get to see him play in the ring game,and against Silvers cousin,one night.hes got the heart, and all the gamble, know question!had great demeaner around the table,which was a pleasure to see.not sure of his age,he just might be a major force to be reckoned with in the future.what are your thoughts on that,if in fact he did play T-Rex a year or two ago.and marcus giving him the 6 and last 3 what in your opinion gets him to the next level,position play,mental side,a mentor like Cory had,would love to see Lil John giving the weight in the near future.the pool world could use about 100 more just like him. Marcus traveled with Jack Cooney about 10 years ago,not sure for how long,but from what ive heard they usually have a good line on there target,beware of wolfs in sheeps clothing. GOOD LUCK TO YOU IN THE FUTURE LIL JOHN HOPEFULLY WILL GET A CHANCE TO SEE YOU PLAY NEXT YEAR!
That would be very interesting indeed,if im not mistaken Lil John played Tony Chohan a year or two ago,getting the 6 or 7 i may be wrong.but if so,i think marcus,scott,gabe,put T-Rex in the box. i did however get to see him play in the ring game,and against Silvers cousin,one night.hes got the heart, and all the gamble, know question!had great demeaner around the table,which was a pleasure to see.not sure of his age,he just might be a major force to be reckoned with in the future.what are your thoughts on that,if in fact he did play T-Rex a year or two ago.and marcus giving him the 6 and last 3 what in your opinion gets him to the next level,position play,mental side,a mentor like Cory had,would love to see Lil John giving the weight in the near future.the pool world could use about 100 more just like him. Marcus traveled with Jack Cooney about 10 years ago,not sure for how long,but from what ive heard they usually have a good line on there target,beware of wolfs in sheeps clothing. GOOD LUCK TO YOU IN THE FUTURE LIL JOHN HOPEFULLY WILL GET A CHANCE TO SEE YOU PLAY NEXT YEAR!
Vagabond,
As you stated you werent there.I witnessed a good portion of that match.Lil Jon played with more heart and determination than i had seen from anyone in a longtime.To say it was business and you werent even there is a little on the weak side for lack of a better term.But we are all entitled to our opinion,and i just gave mine.
Cheers
As you stated you werent there.I witnessed a good portion of that match.Lil Jon played with more heart and determination than i had seen from anyone in a longtime.To say it was business and you werent even there is a little on the weak side for lack of a better term.But we are all entitled to our opinion,and i just gave mine.
Cheers
Well everyone, I just talked to Lil Jon and told him about this post. I asked his opinion on the whole thing. This is quoted from him....
"I appreciate you asking my view of the match. First of all I made some judgement errors in playing that game. I had been awake for a day and a half and still chose to play. I hadn't slept because I had been in constant action prior to that and because I felt like the spot was in my favor I couldn't turn it down. I felt that the spot was in my favor but I would have to take control of the match. Someone of Marcus's caliber plays well enough to where if he shows up to play the spot won't matter. Because of the fact I only controlled the match in the first 45 minutes and I made some careless errors and couldn't capitalize when I was 7 or 8 games up, I got weak. He had just woken up and was ready to play and took advantage of my mistakes. Believe me I'm not making any excuses, he played well and deserved to beat me. When I got home to Mississippi I tried to call and make a game playing the same way but found out Marcus was already on a flight back to Sweden and I would have to wait until Vegas in May to play again. For those of you that got to sweat the match in Louisville, believe me I will be in Vegas ready to play. There is only one adjustment I want to make and that is to bet more!!!!!!! I promise it wasn't business. I'm not like that, Eight out of ten times I am betting my own. Marcus just played good and deserved to win. Just for those of you interested, after trying to make a game with Marcus through Scott Frost, Scott offered to play me at Q-masters in Virginia giving me the 6 and the last 2 for $10,000."
Like I said, that is directly from the horse's mouth.
Take care,
Sarah
"I appreciate you asking my view of the match. First of all I made some judgement errors in playing that game. I had been awake for a day and a half and still chose to play. I hadn't slept because I had been in constant action prior to that and because I felt like the spot was in my favor I couldn't turn it down. I felt that the spot was in my favor but I would have to take control of the match. Someone of Marcus's caliber plays well enough to where if he shows up to play the spot won't matter. Because of the fact I only controlled the match in the first 45 minutes and I made some careless errors and couldn't capitalize when I was 7 or 8 games up, I got weak. He had just woken up and was ready to play and took advantage of my mistakes. Believe me I'm not making any excuses, he played well and deserved to beat me. When I got home to Mississippi I tried to call and make a game playing the same way but found out Marcus was already on a flight back to Sweden and I would have to wait until Vegas in May to play again. For those of you that got to sweat the match in Louisville, believe me I will be in Vegas ready to play. There is only one adjustment I want to make and that is to bet more!!!!!!! I promise it wasn't business. I'm not like that, Eight out of ten times I am betting my own. Marcus just played good and deserved to win. Just for those of you interested, after trying to make a game with Marcus through Scott Frost, Scott offered to play me at Q-masters in Virginia giving me the 6 and the last 2 for $10,000."
Like I said, that is directly from the horse's mouth.
Take care,
Sarah
Sarah,
Thanks for showing this to Lil Jon and getting his view on everything.
It was a pleasure to meet you in Louisville, good luck to you this year.
Tony
Thanks for showing this to Lil Jon and getting his view on everything.
It was a pleasure to meet you in Louisville, good luck to you this year.
Tony
Vagabond,vagabond said:
I respect and appreciate your posts, but you have obviously not big around the big time gambling scene. I have known Lil John for several years now. The last time I saw him play before the Derby was at Grady's tournament (Gulf Coast Classic) in Gulfport in December. I couldn't believe how much his game had jumped. I'm from SC and when people heard he was playing Jeff Abernathy (from NC) for 15K, everybody thought Jeff was sure to win. I like Jeff, but warned people of what I saw of Lil John's game in Gulfport.
His love for the game and high stakes action have vaulted Lil John's game. He is a great player (and he will only improve). And he has more heart and more gamble that anyone in this country. Even people like Gerald who have had their differences with him will not deny this.
In my opinion, he is what makes pool exciting, and if the pool community would accentuate this part of the game more, instead of trying to show the satire of it being squeaky clean sport, it would show people why we love the game, and pool would catch fire hotter than poker or any other sport.
You get up ther and play Marcus, or Scoot F, or Alex with a seemingly unsurmountable spot. I think you will change your opinion.
Keep posting.
Mike
bluekckid said:
And now his head may have gotten just a little bit bigger. Just joking, it's hard not to like him a little. He ain't afraid to put it in the middle, that's for sure. L J, when you going to come back to Htown for some more of that one ball one hole. That's the last winner I booked and I'm running low.
O
onepocketchump
Guest
I saw Lil John play in Vegas and I have to concur with Mike T. I didn't think he was that good until I saw him play in Vegas.
Just goes to show you -how- good the best guys really are. What does the six mean if you never get to the table?
Pool is the ONLY game, when played winner breaks, that you can freeze your opponent out and never let him hit a ball. That is why a player can give up seemingly insurmountable weight and win.
John
Just goes to show you -how- good the best guys really are. What does the six mean if you never get to the table?
Pool is the ONLY game, when played winner breaks, that you can freeze your opponent out and never let him hit a ball. That is why a player can give up seemingly insurmountable weight and win.
John
onepocketchump said:
Right, opc.....and that is why, imho, the smartest way to match up with top players/champions is to play races, and get the breaks and games on the wire instead of the 6 or the 7....if you get the breaks he can't keep you in your chair....and if you got spotted the 6 or 7, game after game you might never see your 6 or 7 ball - but if you get spotted games on the wire, your opponent sure can't make those games on the wire disappear - and if you happen to win the first game or two and add to those games on the wire, and get ahead something like 5 to 0 he's seriously not going to like it.....any young guns who use this match-up formula and get the cheese, do the right thing and send me some consideration - I'm not greedy...just enough for dinner and a six-pack ^_^
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Just one general comment about Lil Jon: he is a great player with a lot of talent and heart. But what truly separates him from the other great players is his composure, class and sportsmanship. I watched a lot of his match with Marcus (and have seen him play other times) and he demonstrated nothing but what I just mentioned....
It's a shame when we all have to speculate on "the business" side of pool. But, It does still happen A LOT. Most of the players have started just making savers with each other....Kind of a like an exhibiton fee. If the bet is 10 K between two great players who have backers. It breaks down like this a lot of the times....The winning backer gets 6 K and the Winning Player takes 3 K and the losing player gets tossed a 1000 for his effort. This is just what I've seen happen many times.....The Business Side of people getting dumped still happens but just not as much as it used to.
As far as the Lil Jon match, Yes Lil Jon might very well have the best of that game. BUT, I learned a long time watching ARCHER play.....Sometimes a Professional Pool Player can just OUT RUN THE NUTS in Nine ball. Marcus can play nine ball perfect for periods of time where he doesn't ever miss a ball and has total control of the game. It could be a stretch of time where Lil Jon gets nothing but 3 kicks in 12 games.....The spot really doesn't matter when that happens. That's Nine Ball and that's why One pocket is a much better game.
As far as the Lil Jon match, Yes Lil Jon might very well have the best of that game. BUT, I learned a long time watching ARCHER play.....Sometimes a Professional Pool Player can just OUT RUN THE NUTS in Nine ball. Marcus can play nine ball perfect for periods of time where he doesn't ever miss a ball and has total control of the game. It could be a stretch of time where Lil Jon gets nothing but 3 kicks in 12 games.....The spot really doesn't matter when that happens. That's Nine Ball and that's why One pocket is a much better game.
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you're wrong
I'm sorry Mike, but Little Jon is NOT what this sport needs as an ambassador. And we DO need to get a "squeeky clean" reputation to gain corporate sponsorship so we can have million dollar purses. Little John's game has really improved, you are right. But his drive is being the center of attention, and money, NOT the love of this sport. His dishonesty is well-known and the trail of debt is worse than the "Trail Of Tears" the indians had to endure.You never know what game he brings, and it makes it difficult to bet for or against him. He hardly EVER backs himself, he's always got a backer. I befriended him when i first started dabbling in this sport and got burned several times by him. and it could have been worse but I got wind of a few of his schemes and backed off. I am one who held some of his "paper" and it took the threat of legal action to get my money. I could go on about several instances but that's not the point. I'm not here tobring this sport down, I want it to get better and if you want to call it squeeky clean, well thats what it needs to be. If Little Jon would play his game, and not play games, he'd be "kobie" of the billiards scene. He does have the gift of gab, and does create excitement, but you don't know from what angle. If he'd clean his act up, and be a straight shooter, he'd have an ally in me. But you never know where he's coming from. That is NOT good for this sport.
I'm sorry Mike, but Little Jon is NOT what this sport needs as an ambassador. And we DO need to get a "squeeky clean" reputation to gain corporate sponsorship so we can have million dollar purses. Little John's game has really improved, you are right. But his drive is being the center of attention, and money, NOT the love of this sport. His dishonesty is well-known and the trail of debt is worse than the "Trail Of Tears" the indians had to endure.You never know what game he brings, and it makes it difficult to bet for or against him. He hardly EVER backs himself, he's always got a backer. I befriended him when i first started dabbling in this sport and got burned several times by him. and it could have been worse but I got wind of a few of his schemes and backed off. I am one who held some of his "paper" and it took the threat of legal action to get my money. I could go on about several instances but that's not the point. I'm not here tobring this sport down, I want it to get better and if you want to call it squeeky clean, well thats what it needs to be. If Little Jon would play his game, and not play games, he'd be "kobie" of the billiards scene. He does have the gift of gab, and does create excitement, but you don't know from what angle. If he'd clean his act up, and be a straight shooter, he'd have an ally in me. But you never know where he's coming from. That is NOT good for this sport.
when you say "legal action", were you actually going to sue him in a court of law for screwing you on an illegal gambling debt? i don't think you can do that..... 
pupjoint, if you think pool has to have a "squeeky clean" reputation to gain corporate sponsorship, how would you explain the recent success of Poker? Did Poker clean up its act and eliminate gambling (and cheatingpupjoint said:
) while I had my back turned, and that's why big sponsorship money is now flowing into Poker? I don't think so! Hell Poker has way, way more of a tradition of down-right cheating than pool ever thought about having! What's holding back pool isn't the lack of "squeeky clean" in pool, alas it is the unrealistic attitude of people like you -- especially in the pool industry itself -- that are holding it back, and shooting themselves in the foot in doing so!
The one practice that I would like to see go away in pool is of course 'dumping', because dumping actually hurts the action which is a big part of the natural excitement in pool. Wariness about dumping makes those who might jump right into the action themselves hold back, and stay on the sidelines -- and in fact helps 'kill the goose that lays the golden egg' for the very players that like the money. It's very shortsighted IMO. But, it's nothing unique to pool -- in fact, it's probably way more common in other sports that routinely have much, much more money wagered 'on the side' than pool ever has...
Take the Black Sox scandal, or college football and basketball scandals for example.
Players like Little John know dumping would only hurt them in the long run, and that's why they don't do it. IMO, Little John is a tremendous young asset to the game who brings excitement -- and fans -- to pool. He gets my vote.
1pocket said:pupjoint, if you think pool has to have a "squeeky clean" reputation to gain corporate sponsorship, how would you explain the recent success of Poker? Did Poker clean up its act and eliminate gambling (and cheating
What's holding back pool isn't the lack of "squeeky clean" in pool, alas it is the unrealistic attitude of people like you -- especially in the pool industry itself -- that are holding it back, and shooting themselves in the foot in doing so!
The one practice that I would like to see go away in pool is of course 'dumping', because dumping actually hurts the action which is a big part of the natural excitement in pool. Wariness about dumping makes those who might jump right into the action themselves hold back, and stay on the sidelines -- and in fact helps 'kill the goose that lays the golden egg' for the very players that like the money. It's very shortsighted IMO. But, it's nothing unique to pool -- in fact, it's probably way more common in other sports that routinely have much, much more money wagered 'on the side' than pool ever has...
Take the Black Sox scandal, or college football and basketball scandals for example.
Players like Little John know dumping would only hurt them in the long run, and that's why they don't do it. IMO, Little John is a tremendous young asset to the game who brings excitement -- and fans -- to pool. He gets my vote.
Thanks 1pocket. I agree with you 100%. Especially about the dumping. I also wish that there was no dumping, but there is no way that I see to eliminate it. People who get involved in "side action" and "staking" just need to be careful and know what they are doing when wagering on players other than themselves. I would like to ask pupjoint what the attempt to raise pools popularity with a "squeaky clean" image has gotten us? Nothing. And, pupjoint, how can you say that I am "wrong" when this type of approach hasn't been tried. At least as far as I know. It's the "holier than thou's" like yourself that have held pool back (IMO). I don't have to repeat all that the seedy side of pool has done for it's popularity. There have been many posts about how "The Hustler" revived pool in the 60's. It showed the seedy side of pool. The greatest thing going in pool now is the Derby. Surely you won't disagree with that. They, too, glamorize the gambling and action aspect of the game.
If you don't trust Lil John, don't get involved in his action. I'm sure there is plenty of other action to sweat and get involved in where you live. But you can't say that dishonest charachters are what are holding pool back. The amount of threads on this subject which appear on this forum prove that reports about the less than "squeaky clean" side of the game are what most players and fans alike want to hear. Apparently it peaked your interst, too, to get you involved in this thread. Dishonest people have been involved in pool since it's inception, and were the main cause of pool's rise in popularity in the beginning. And they have just as much right to play as anybody (again IMO). They don't ask the honest people to stop playing.
There are enough segments of the game now, where if pupjoint (or any other players) don't want to be drawn into this aspect of the game, they don't have to. There are enough holier than thou's, yuppies, rednecks, cheats, scoundrels, lawyers, doctors, christians, jews, construction workers, white collars, blue collars, nerds, jocks, women, men, blacks, whites, asians, young people, old people....etc, etc...(well, I think people get the message) for everyone to feel comfortable somewhere in this sport.
Mike
Mike Templeton said:
Howdy Mike,
I did not get that feeling when I read PupJoint`s post.He was only a messenger and talked about what he knew about the player in question.His post reflected idealism rather than `holier than thou`.U like to see pool suceed and he also loves to see pool suceed.The routes u recommend for sucess of pool is different from what pupjoint believes. in.But you both have the same goal.
cheers
Vagabond
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Vagabond,vagabond said:
This is true. And I think everyone who loves the game like we do wants only the best for out sport.
And looking at Smorg's post, if I have given any inkling of an idea that I condone "dumping", nothing could be farther from the truth. I agree that people who dump are the scum of our sport and should be taken behind the pool room and given what they deserve. I just feel that the popularity of our sport doesn't hinge on keeping the image unrealistic and different from the reality of the way things actually are in pool. Most everyone is intrigued by the "seedy" side of the sport. I think we should use it to our advantage.
Mike