Lining up low on the cue ball?

JohnnyShakes

JohnnyShakes

Hill/Hill w/ 1 ball ghost
Silver Member
I have noticed a lot of top players seem to line up the tip of their cue with the bottom of the cue ball when they address the cue ball. They do this even when they intend to use topspin. It looks like they are going to draw the cue ball, or possibly even scoop jump or miscue, but then they adjust the placement of their tip to contact the cue ball appropriately on the actual stroke. It seems counter-intuitive to me to make an adjustment during your stroke, but I've seen enough top players do it that I'm sure there must be a reason for it. Can anyone enlighten me as to why?

Johnny
 
I do this too. Grounding the tip to the bottom of the ball is a way to insure that I am aligned at the horizontal center of the cueball to start.
 
Hi there,

this is a often coming up bad habit- usualy there s absolutley no reason for it- it brings no advantage-nothing.
It just can cause a new problem to execute your stroke straight through the cueball. But as long it doesn t work for the guys....not many would be aside this opinion. In the past i ve had this discussion sometimes with really good players (definitley A or A+)-some say yes- but it s a habit....so no reason to change it. Just sad if newcomers see this and think that is hast to be that way,#

lg from overseas,

Ingo
 
Low on the cue ball

If you take the 4 ball or the 6 ball and bring the cue stick up close to the bottom of the ball, you can see the reflection of the stick in the ball. When the stick is perfectly in the center of the cue ball, the reflection of the cue stick comes straight back at you. When you are off to the side, the cue stick points out.

A lot of top players use this to find the exact center of the cue ball.

There are other ways to find the center of the cue ball, but this is one that a lot of good players use.
 
Ratta said:
Hi there,

this is a often coming up bad habit- usualy there s absolutley no reason for it- it brings no advantage-nothing.
It just can cause a new problem to execute your stroke straight through the cueball. But as long it doesn t work for the guys....not many would be aside this opinion. In the past i ve had this discussion sometimes with really good players (definitley A or A+)-some say yes- but it s a habit....so no reason to change it. Just sad if newcomers see this and think that is hast to be that way,#

lg from overseas,

Ingo
Click to expand...

:eek:
The base ( darkest part ) of the cueball is center axis.
It's also easier to see the "hit" while low on the cb.
Hundreds of pros can't be wrong.
 
2 reasons why

Your right, alot of top players do this--very observant


1. Hitting the lower portion of the cue ball gives you a more true roll because you dont have any unintended masse effect and because you are hitting under the center of mass.

2. There is less chance for mis cues when you start low when addressing the cue and then slightly move up into the center of mass as you strike the ball.

Craig
 
Tony_in_MD said:
I do this too. Grounding the tip to the bottom of the ball is a way to insure that I am aligned at the horizontal center of the cueball to start.
Click to expand...

Tony nailed it. As explained to me by Scott Lee, (who certainly would know), players often do this because it's the surest and truest way to find the exact center of the ball along the vertical axis.

They align their cue tip at the point where the bottom of the cue ball meets the table, and simply move the tip up to stay along the vertical axis, ensuring no side spin.
 
9BallMarksman said:
Tony nailed it. As explained to me by Scott Lee, (who certainly would know), players often do this because it's the surest and truest way to find the exact center of the ball along the vertical axis.

They align their cue tip at the point where the bottom of the cue ball meets the table, and simply move the tip up to stay along the vertical axis, ensuring no side spin.
Click to expand...

And to add to 9BallMarksman's great info, this technique is also used to shoot long straight-in shots -- except you're lining up your cue to the bottom of the cue ball, and then to the bottom of the object ball where it touches the cloth (in essence, you're lining up all three in a straight line).

This technique is used in snooker all the time. And it's especially helpful to pool players, because pool players often suffer some slight parallax errors in sighting long-distance shots, due to the angled head/eye placement over the cue that is incurred through the pool stance itself (i.e. because the body is not square-on to the shot, but is rather rotated slightly, the head is either slightly tilted on the vertical axis, or else slightly turned such that one eye leads the other [e.g. the left eye leads the right eye for right-handed pool players]). Being able to sight and line-up the exact bottoms of both the cue ball and the object ball (where they both touch the cloth) helps in lining up the center axis, thus overriding the natural parallax error of the pool stance.

Great replies to a great question!
-Sean
 
sfleinen said:
And to add to 9BallMarksman's great info, this technique is also used to shoot long straight-in shots -- except you're lining up your cue to the bottom of the cue ball, and then to the bottom of the object ball where it touches the cloth (in essence, you're lining up all three in a straight line).

This technique is used in snooker all the time. And it's especially helpful to pool players, because pool players often suffer some slight parallax errors in sighting long-distance shots, due to the angled head/eye placement over the cue that is incurred through the pool stance itself (i.e. because the body is not square-on to the shot, but is rather rotated slightly, the head is either slightly tilted on the vertical axis, or else slightly turned such that one eye leads the other [e.g. the left eye leads the right eye for right-handed pool players]). Being able to sight and line-up the exact bottoms of both the cue ball and the object ball (where they both touch the cloth) helps in lining up the center axis, thus overriding the natural parallax error of the pool stance.

Great replies to a great question!
-Sean
Click to expand...

That's a great way to line up long, straight-in shots, but my nemisis has always been long, not quite perfectly straight-in shots (maybe up to 3 degrees or so from being perfectly straight). Any "system" for those?
 
It also helps with consistency on draw and stop shots, by removing one of the variables. You only have to be concerned with cue speed, not where to strike the cue ball. You are also less likely to miscue because of the repeated practice of striking the same spot.
 
ric23 said:
Thanks for the replies! I've always been curious about that too!!!
Click to expand...

Ditto!

Good post JohnnyShakes! Not that I'm a top player or anything but I've been told I do this on occasion too. I don't notice it and for the most part it's unintentional. :confused:
 
Winston846 said:
That's a great way to line up long, straight-in shots, but my nemisis has always been long, not quite perfectly straight-in shots (maybe up to 3 degrees or so from being perfectly straight). Any "system" for those?
Click to expand...

Winston846:

Without turning this into YAAT ("yet another aiming thread"), I'll answer that the same technique is used. Let me guess as to why you're asking this question -- you always overcut these "not quite perfectly straight-in" shots, right? That's parallax error -- you're estimating how much offset from centerline to aim the shot, and it turns out to be too much.

My suggestion would be to line up a series of long straight-in shots (diagonally across a 9-footer, placing the object ball on the centerspot of the table [between the two side pockets], and placing the cue ball near the corner pocket, but leaving enough room away from the pocket aperture itself where you can bridge comfortably). Shoot a series of these shots using the method described above, until you can't miss (or miss only occasionally -- we're not robots, afterall). Then, either alter the position of the cue ball slightly, or alter the position of the object ball slightly (former is preferred), and shoot that shot until you can't/only-occasionally miss. Then, adjust again, moving the shot just slightly further off a perfectly straight-in shot. Keep adjusting the position of either the cue ball or the object ball until you get to a three-quarter ball hit, and methinks you'll then be past your nemesis, for you are now dealing with no-doubt-about-it cut shots.

This is one of my favorite drills to warm up, by the way. I'll hit these with varying amounts of power, follow, draw, etc. The most difficult execution of this shot is to hit it with LAG speed -- j-u-s-t hard enough to have the cue ball lightly contact the object ball, and that object ball lags to the pocket, and j-u-s-t falls in. That's a real tester of your fundamentals, that's for sure!

Hope this is helpful!
-Sean
 
I guess I never really thought of doing it any other way other than aiming exactly where I plan to hit the ball and nothing else? I'm I in the minority here? I'm open to trying other ways but I cant see advantage of the other methods other than it's just something they are comfortable with.
 
sfleinen said:
Winston846:

Without turning this into YAAT ("yet another aiming thread"), I'll answer that the same technique is used. Let me guess as to why you're asking this question -- you always overcut these "not quite perfectly straight-in" shots, right? That's parallax error -- you're estimating how much offset from centerline to aim the shot, and it turns out to be too much.

My suggestion would be to line up a series of long straight-in shots (diagonally across a 9-footer, placing the object ball on the centerspot of the table [between the two side pockets], and placing the cue ball near the corner pocket, but leaving enough room away from the pocket aperture itself where you can bridge comfortably). Shoot a series of these shots using the method described above, until you can't miss (or miss only occasionally -- we're not robots, afterall). Then, either alter the position of the cue ball slightly, or alter the position of the object ball slightly (former is preferred), and shoot that shot until you can't/only-occasionally miss. Then, adjust again, moving the shot just slightly further off a perfectly straight-in shot. Keep adjusting the position of either the cue ball or the object ball until you get to a three-quarter ball hit, and methinks you'll then be past your nemesis, for you are now dealing with no-doubt-about-it cut shots.

This is one of my favorite drills to warm up, by the way. I'll hit these with varying amounts of power, follow, draw, etc. The most difficult execution of this shot is to hit it with LAG speed -- j-u-s-t hard enough to have the cue ball lightly contact the object ball, and that object ball lags to the pocket, and j-u-s-t falls in. That's a real tester of your fundamentals, that's for sure!

Hope this is helpful!
-Sean
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip, Sean. I'll work on that.

I wasn't looking to turn this into YAAT ('cause you'll get 1000 replies with 1000 different ways), just seeking advice on one particular shot I have difficulty with.

And for what it's worth, I do have an astigmatism (but do not wear any corrective lenses), so my problem may very well be vision related. And yes, when I miss these shots, it is to the over-cut side.
 
Cdryden said:
I guess I never really thought of doing it any other way other than aiming exactly where I plan to hit the ball and nothing else? I'm I in the minority here? I'm open to trying other ways but I cant see advantage of the other methods other than it's just something they are comfortable with.
Click to expand...

Cdryden,

I felt the same as you. I always aim where I want to hit the cue ball, but I only see better players lining up low on the cue ball every time, so I figured there had to be a reason for it. It didn't strike me as being accidental. I also end up getting unintended side spin on some of my shots, which causes me to miss some shots that I wouldn't otherwise miss. I think that I'm going to give this a try to see if it helps, now that I know the logic behind it, and how to use it. Anything that can help me improve can't be a bad thing.

Johnny
 
i4pool said:
Ditto!

Good post JohnnyShakes! Not that I'm a top player or anything but I've been told I do this on occasion too. I don't notice it and for the most part it's unintentional. :confused:
Click to expand...

i4pool,

You are one of the players that I've noticed doing this. Hard to believe that it is unintentional on your part, because you do it quite often from what I've seen. But you are one of the "better players" I was referring to.

Johnny
 
Cdryden said:
I guess I never really thought of doing it any other way other than aiming exactly where I plan to hit the ball and nothing else? I'm I in the minority here? I'm open to trying other ways but I cant see advantage of the other methods other than it's just something they are comfortable with.
Click to expand...

It's not that you're in the minority. What you do, and what we're discussing are merely two different things, that's all. All Sean and I are referring to is an excellent tool for helping a player stay on center axis (if and when that is his/her goal). It was only introduced to me recently, and since then, I've found it quite helpful.

Of course, it stands to reason that one only need use this method when the goal of the shot is to hit along the exact center axis. When applying side spin, disregard this method.

Hope this helps! :thumbup:
 
JohnnyShakes said:
Cdryden,

I felt the same as you. I always aim where I want to hit the cue ball, but I only see better players lining up low on the cue ball every time, so I figured there had to be a reason for it. It didn't strike me as being accidental. I also end up getting unintended side spin on some of my shots, which causes me to miss some shots that I wouldn't otherwise miss. I think that I'm going to give this a try to see if it helps, now that I know the logic behind it, and how to use it. Anything that can help me improve can't be a bad thing.

Johnny
Click to expand...

Johnny:

"Hill-hill with the 1-ball ghost"? I like that! I guess that's shooting spot-shots as your break shot, right? There's a technique for making those consistently, as well, but I digress...

One training aid which you might be interested in, is Joe Tucker's "Third Eye Aim/Stroke Trainer":

http://azbmarketplace.com/products/Third_Eye_Stroke_Trainer_w_DVD-318-84.html
3rdeye.jpg

Now you may look at this thing, and go "Pffft!" But it's not as hokey as it looks. Without using a technique like aiming low at the cue ball (i.e. where it touches the cloth), stroking dead-center on the cue ball is a lot harder than some folks think, if they've never gauged their ability to do so with a training aid like this. Especially if the player has some degree of parallax error in sighting down the cue (head/eye placement, dominant eye, etc.).

Hope this is helpful!
-Sean
 
I have astigmatism and a dominant eye problem. When I think I am aiming dead center ball on the CB, I am often not percieving the center correctly.

I then walk into the shot with the tip of my cue at the bottom of the CB where it touches the cloth - this is on the vertical center line; while aiming at the OB. I leave it there as I get down on the shot to see how I should percieve the center of the CB.

I then move my head a little to the side that aligns my dominant eye above the cue shaft under my chin until it looks correct. I then stroke the cue shaft from that location under my chin.

I watched Efren start most shots at the bottom the CB and then move the tip off of bottom center to apply english.

Just me talkin.:smile:
 
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