List of current (2019) professional pocket dimensions?

C

Cron

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm wondering if there is a list somewhere with widths, lengths and angles of pocket sizes professionals generally play on. For instance Diamon, Rasson, Valley, Star etc...

I'm thinking about getting a Diamond personally with 4 1/4 pockets, but I'm interested to see what the median and average is. I know some slides appear longer on some tables, but that is about it.

EDIT: and the felts/cloth to go with them.
 
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I just watched an event called The Northwest Cup on live stream last weekend. Railbirds TV should have some of the matches on youtube by now. Suggest you watch before deciding on pocket size. It had 4 1/4" pockets on a Brunswick. Plenty of misses by damned good players with Fargo ratings in the high 600's to low 700's.
Rail shots would go only if the shot was perfect. Ton's of rattles with balls that looked like they were in, etc.

It's just my opinion, but I wouldn't want to go less than 4 1/2 for my home table.

This leads to another question...do tight pockets make one a better player or a more frustrated one?
 
pwd72s said:
I just watched an event called The Northwest Cup on live stream last weekend. Railbirds TV should have some of the matches on youtube by now. Suggest you watch before deciding on pocket size. It had 4 1/4" pockets on a Brunswick. Plenty of misses by damned good players with Fargo ratings in the high 600's to low 700's.
Rail shots would go only if the shot was perfect. Ton's of rattles with balls that looked like they were in, etc.

It's just my opinion, but I wouldn't want to go less than 4 1/2 for my home table.

This leads to another question...do tight pockets make one a better player or a more frustrated one?
Click to expand...

Actually, maybe I should update my post, because recently what frustrates me the most is the felt :-P. I've been manually measuring pool table this week and it seems that the same physical dimensions of a pocket can be reduced in difficulty thanks to the felt (or increased in difficulty depending on view).
 
Cron said:
I'm wondering if there is a list somewhere with widths, lengths and angles of pocket sizes professionals generally play on. For instance Diamon, Rasson, Valley, Star etc...

I'm thinking about getting a Diamond personally with 4 1/4 pockets, but I'm interested to see what the median and average is. I know some slides appear longer on some tables, but that is about it.

EDIT: and the felts/cloth to go with them.
Click to expand...
New cloth makes any table play easier for a while. As it breaks-in and is not as slick the table tightens up.
 
Griff's have a 4.25" Diamond.

What I don't get is pros have a tough time on
tight pockets, but there are amateurs insisting
tight pockets is what they want.

When I think of tight, its 4.25" or less.
 
gxman said:
Griff's have a 4.25" Diamond.

What I don't get is pros have a tough time on
tight pockets, but there are amateurs insisting
tight pockets is what they want.

When I think of tight, its 4.25" or less.
Click to expand...

At least one of those, maybe three of them are 4 1/8. Love them for 1P.
 
pwd72s said:
I just watched an event called The Northwest Cup on live stream last weekend. Railbirds TV should have some of the matches on youtube by now. Suggest you watch before deciding on pocket size. It had 4 1/4" pockets on a Brunswick. Plenty of misses by damned good players with Fargo ratings in the high 600's to low 700's.
Rail shots would go only if the shot was perfect. Ton's of rattles with balls that looked like they were in, etc.

It's just my opinion, but I wouldn't want to go less than 4 1/2 for my home table.

This leads to another question...do tight pockets make one a better player or a more frustrated one?
Click to expand...
The pocket facing angle (PFA) is likely even more critical as to how tough the pocket plays than the pocket mouth measurement. A 141 (+/- 1 degree) PFA would likely be considered as the average for most tables. A table with a 4-1/2" corner pocket mouth measurement with a 143 degree PFA will play considerably tougher (tighter) than a table with 4-1/4" corner pocket mouth measurements that has a 138 degree PFA.
 
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ChrisinNC said:
The pocket facing angle (PFA) is likely even more critical as to how tough the pocket plays than the pocket mouth measurement. A 141 (+/- 1 degree) PFA would likely be considered as the average for most tables. A table with a 4-1/2" corner pocket mouth measurement with a 143 degree PFA will play considerably tougher (tighter) than a table with 4-1/4" corner pocket mouth measurements that has a 138 degree PFA.
Click to expand...
This what so many fail to understand!!!
 
Correct.

PLUS the shelf length is equally important.

Diamonds have a longer shelf, which contributes to a higher "rattle factor".

Having said that, my Diamond 9ft pro was around 4.25, and I wouldn't have minded them a little tighter. Just a touch.

-von

ChrisinNC said:
The pocket facing angle (PFA) is likely even more critical as to how tough the pocket plays than the pocket mouth measurement. A 141 (+/- 1 degree) PFA would likely be considered as the average for most tables. A table with a 4-1/2" corner pocket mouth measurement with a 143 degree PFA will play considerably tougher (tighter) than a table with 4-1/4" corner pocket mouth measurements that has a 138 degree PFA.
Click to expand...
 
My favorite table is a 9' Diamond with 4.25" pockets.

Believe it or not, I play better on it than the 4.5" pockets.
I mentioned this to a regular at the room and he understood, same for him. Said something about being more focused.
 
VonRhett said:
Correct.

PLUS the shelf length is equally important.

Diamonds have a longer shelf, which contributes to a higher "rattle factor".

Having said that, my Diamond 9ft pro was around 4.25, and I wouldn't have minded them a little tighter. Just a touch.

-von
Click to expand...
We have two of the toughest tables here in our room that any player, pro or amateur would ever want to play or practice on - a 10-footer with 4-1/4" corners and 143 degree pocket facing angles, and a 9-footer with 4-1/8" corners also with 143 degree pocket facing angles.

I love to practice 14.1 on both of them, but I find it extremely hard to run even 2 full racks (28 balls) in a 2-3 hour practice session, although my 14.1 personal best high run is approaching 100 on a 4-3/4" corner pocket table. For some strange reason, as frustrating as it is, I still love the challenge it presents.
 
ChrisinNC said:
We have two of the toughest tables here in our room that any player, pro or amateur would ever want to play or practice on - a 10-footer with 4-1/4" corners and 143 degree pocket facing angles, and a 9-footer with 4-1/8" corners also with 143 degree pocket facing angles.

I love to practice 14.1 on both of them, but I find it extremely hard to run even 2 full racks (28 balls) in a 2-3 hour practice session, although my 14.1 personal best high run is approaching 100 on a 4-3/4" corner pocket table. For some strange reason, as frustrating as it is, I still love the challenge it presents.
Click to expand...

And I still fail to understand the value or importance of having such tight pockets on a pool table. Tight pockets don't make world champions, practicing to NOT miss does.
 
realkingcobra said:
And I still fail to understand the value or importance of having such tight pockets on a pool table. Tight pockets don't make world champions, practicing to NOT miss does.
Click to expand...

Maybe it's a bit like horsepower bragging among car guys?
 
I believe, I believe!!

-von

jimmyco said:
My favorite table is a 9' Diamond with 4.25" pockets.

Believe it or not, I play better on it than the 4.5" pockets.
I mentioned this to a regular at the room and he understood, same for him. Said something about being more focused.
Click to expand...
 
realkingcobra said:
And I still fail to understand the value or importance of having such tight pockets on a pool table. Tight pockets don't make world champions, practicing to NOT miss does.
Click to expand...
I agree and admit that I'm guilty of holding the same delusions as many of our customers - many of whom aren't even capable of running a rack on a standard pocket table but still think that by practicing on a super tight pocket table will make them/me a better player. Hard to explain the logic, but perhaps the ultimate challenge is what makes it so enticing!
 
ChrisinNC said:
I agree and admit that I'm guilty of holding the same delusions as many of our customers - many of whom aren't even capable of running a rack on a standard pocket table but still think that by practicing on a super tight pocket table will make them/me a better player. Hard to explain the logic, but perhaps the ultimate challenge is what makes it so enticing!
Click to expand...

IMO, pockets that are "too tight" SUCK!

The objective of the game is to "make balls".

I'm not advocating "buckets" for pockets, but anything less than 4 1/2 is too small, IMO.

If you think the game is TOO EASY, then make it more DIFFICULT.

THROW AWAY all the LD shafts.

Put "horse blanket" cloth on the table.

THROW AWAY the jump cues.

Extend the races or number of balls that need to be made in order to win.

ETC.
ETC.
ETC.

Even the pros struggle when the pockets are too tight and, to me, makes the game too boring for me to watch.

I don't want to see people "ducking and diving" all the time because they are afraid to shoot.

The game has gone to Hell.
 
Agree!! 4 -1/2 are fine, but anything smaller on most tables and you run the risk of losing the minimum pocket shelf. The one in the pic is a stock 5" Anniversary and is probably a bit too big, but notice how it fits so well with the casting and the pocket liner. I know the real good mechanics like Mark and Glen make them look good and keep the shelves in specs no matter how tight. Thanks RKC for the tip on the Woolite and cool water for cleaning the cloth, that pocket looked so good after cleaning today I didn't mind posting a pic.

3a1d6ccb268099b594fa9387461a475f.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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It is very, very difficult for a beginner in this game to learn a true pool stroke if the pockets are anything less than 4 3/4 - smaller pockets inhibit 99% of beginners strokes because too many rejected balls; that the eye "sees" as a correct aim will cause one to "pull up" on the cue anticipating a mistake in aim, when it is the smaller pockets that are really sapping the beginners confidence. I would recommend anyone less than a B player learn the game on 4 3/4 to 5 inch pockets and then gradually as one moves up the skill ladder- and the pool stroke has been correctly developed; move to the smaller, more challenging pocket sizes.Confidence is such a big factor in skill development and anything that inhibits confidence usually results in poor development.
 
I have a set of templates which show every possible dimensions for 9 foot pool tables. It covers pocket sizes both corner and middles, It shows you where the slate and fall of slate should be.
You can make judgements on how you want your pockets to play.
But surely the ideal scenario would be for all table mechanics to fit table to the template. That way everybody could start from a consistent level.
Every table that is used for a major event could have it's dimensions checked (and be issued with a certificate) before hosting an important match.
 
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