Live Stream Improvements

[JoeyA]

I was just thinking about all of the things people talk about concerning Live Streams.

It is apparent that some people enjoy the commentary of specific commentators, while others prefer no commentary.

For the record, there is nothing like being right there on the spot where the play is happening but wouldn't it be nice if your favorite commentator could sit at home and commentate on the match as it is happening?

How about two commentators that have "chemistry" with each other, sitting in different parts of the world, simultaneously doing color and promotion?

What about having microphones hooked up to every player? Some of the players might not like it but if it promotes the sport and people enjoyed hearing the murmurs and quiet talk of the player, it has to be good for the sport. I would be more inclined to watch live streams if the players' words could be heard.

Also, I think the chat rooms are great fun for the chatters and if their is a moderator available to ride herd on the chatters, the commentators can have some fun interacting with the chat room on occasion.

Larger screens would be a plus.
Higher resolution is always desirable.

How important are the following to the live stream viewer:
1. To be entertained.
2. To learn.
3. To participate in the entertainment. (chat)

What are the most important reasons for watching a pool match? For me, it is watching a particular player or matchup between two particular players of my interest at that point in time, with unique color commentating. The only time I want to hear long jokes, old but good stories is when there is a solid break in the action. I've been guilty of telling a story on occasion while action is taking place and when I think about it today, I still cringe. :embarrassed2: I guess we all live and learn.

I love to receive updates about other matches going on at pool tournaments but that has to be the job of the producer. The producer has to have a runner or have this information fed to the commentators for them to provide it to the viewers.

Another question, I have for the people who purchase match videos on a regular basis. Would you prefer to have commentators who NEVER interact with the live stream audience or would you prefer to have commentators who carefully articulate who and what they are referring to in the chat room? Keep in mind, that the screen names make no sense to anyone unless you know who the screen name belongs to.

There are lots of things that people are interested in like the player's accomplishments, past and current. Personal information about the individual players is always interesting.

And finally:
What improvements to Live Streaming would you like to see?

JoeyA

 

[mikeyfrost]

JoeyA I was on the mic this weekend quite a bit for the event in Olathe. I like to think there are 2 types of streams. You got the professional, polished, high res, etc. NBA type of broadcasts. You also have the straight Sony Handicam on a tripod guerilla broadcast we will call that the Street ball Rucker Park type of streams. I feel like people need both. A highly polished pretty package is good to have around. I feel like sometimes you need that raw and uncut perspective though. I don't think we should reinvent the wheel, I just think we should appreciate what we get. The bucks arent exactly flying in for streams.

 

[Nostroke]

Yeah- I wish they would not interact w the audience. Just too much going on. Me if i really am into a match, the first thing i do is get out of the chat.

Sometimes ill turn off the commentary. Everyone worships Danny D but personally id rather have dead air.

 

[stljohnny]

I enjoy commentators that keep the conversation going - either with the chat room or the with the other commentator(s). Since a) I can't hear the players - and b) the players rarely talk anyway - without the commentators there'd be a lot of dead air. Too much, in my opinion.

As for the pretty package, of course that's always ideal - but really, any free stream is a godsend and I'm happy to get it.

I really like the rotation of commentators, gives everyone a chance to ask questions to players they'd probably not be able to otherwise. (mostly for the wpba events i've watched)

 

[Fast Lenny]

I am guilty as charged for interacting with the chat too much, its pretty much all I do unless I am streaming one pocket, with 9 ball if you can count to 9 you know what is going on, simple game. I was speaking to a buddy yesterday who sometimes does commentary and he said he would like to be able to do it from home. I know it would be possible to do it but probably not with what we have to offer because of the lag streams can have, my stream was running 10-30 seconds behind this weekend. You have to appreciate the great commentators out there because the job is not easy, I give myself a C in commentating working on a C+ but one thing I do not say is "internet pool forums".

P.S. I love you Joey. :grin-square:

 

[Tom In Cincy]

From the other end of the spectrum.

I just like to watch the stream. For me, all too often the commentators just distract from the real entertainment.. the action on the table.


Often the amateurish remarks of what has just happened on the screen that everyone has already seen, is repeated, as if only the commentators are watching the monitor.

The added cameras from different angles are what I would like to see more. Just this weekend the WBA tournament in Washington St. had a wonderful 3 camera setup done by amateurs for the best 3 cushion action I've seen in ages. On the Breaks' own Cheese was doing the commentary and kept the comments to a minimum. The players did all the entertainment that was needed.

I am sure the recordings are available for anyone to review and see some great 3 cushion play. http://www.ustream.tv/user/OTBnTV

 

[mosconiac]

All I request is that the stream be of good quality. I'm not necessarily talking video resolution though...I'm talking about basic bandwidth quality...no choppiness is a primary need.

Once the thing is streaming well, then worry about resolution...then let's have on-screen scoring...then have commercials for the sponsors...THEN bring on the (professional) commentators...multiple camera angles...

I missed some critical moments in a recent ("free" so not really complaining) stream. On one occasion, the final match went hill-hill & the damn thing froze. Reloaded only to have it freeze immediately mid-rack. Didn't even see the final game. Earlier in the match, one player was running out only to have the steram freeze. It came back alive moments later to catch him pulling the CB out of the pocket...what happened?!?! I'll never know.

 

[smoooothstroke]

streams running with liver...yuk!

Yes mic up the players.

I like the 2 commentators.

Good audio ballance...sometimes its hard to get the volume just right,to loud and then to quiet.

I like having the score posted in the video window.

 

[JoeyA]

I just think we should appreciate what we get. The bucks arent exactly flying in for streams.

You're right Mikey. The bucks aren't flying in for the streams and that's why I am interested in improving them. It doesn't always cost more money to improve the streams. Sometimes it's just finding out what people want and providing that.

Yeah- I wish they would not interact w the audience. Just too much going on. Me if i really am into a match, the first thing i do is get out of the chat.

Sometimes ill turn off the commentary. Everyone worships Danny D but personally id rather have dead air.

Some commentators like to chat with the livestream audience and too much is too much but all you have to do is turn the volume off if you don't like it but I agree with what you are saying about too much being too much.

As to watching the livestreams, I occasionally like to socialize and interact in the chat room and other times I simply lurk without logging on.

As for the pretty package, of course that's always ideal - but really, any free stream is a godsend and I'm happy to get it.

FREE is Good but there is no such thing as a free meal. Someone has to pay the piper. In today's TAR livestream, it's CSI, OB CUES and Diamond Billiards.
I really like the rotation of commentators, gives everyone a chance to ask questions to players they'd probably not be able to otherwise. (mostly for the wpba events i've watched)

Yes, I too like the rotation of the commentators simply because I like different styles, different voices, different paces, different perspectives.

I am guilty as charged for interacting with the chat too much, its pretty much all I do unless I am streaming one pocket, with 9 ball if you can count to 9 you know what is going on, simple game. I was speaking to a buddy yesterday who sometimes does commentary and he said he would like to be able to do it from home. I know it would be possible to do it but probably not with what we have to offer because of the lag streams can have, my stream was running 10-30 seconds behind this weekend. You have to appreciate the great commentators out there because the job is not easy, I give myself a C in commentating working on a C+ but one thing I do not say is "internet pool forums".

P.S. I love you Joey. :grin-square:

You can say worse things than "internet pool forums".

From the other end of the spectrum.

I just like to watch the stream. For me, all too often the commentators just distract from the real entertainment.. the action on the table.


Often the amateurish remarks of what has just happened on the screen that everyone has already seen, is repeated, as if only the commentators are watching the monitor.

The added cameras from different angles are what I would like to see more. Just this weekend the WBA tournament in Washington St. had a wonderful 3 camera setup done by amateurs for the best 3 cushion action I've seen in ages. On the Breaks' own Cheese was doing the commentary and kept the comments to a minimum. The players did all the entertainment that was needed.

I am sure the recordings are available for anyone to review and see some great 3 cushion play. http://www.ustream.tv/user/OTBnTV

Tom,
Were the 3 camera setups fixed? Were the three camera angles always visible on your monitor or did they have a "producer" switching to the different cameras?

All I request is that the stream be of good quality. I'm not necessarily talking video resolution though...I'm talking about basic bandwidth quality...no choppiness is a primary need.

Once the thing is streaming well, then worry about resolution...then let's have on-screen scoring...then have commercials for the sponsors...THEN bring on the (professional) commentators...multiple camera angles...

Yes, choppiness is a killer. It takes all of the fun out of watching the livestream but sometimes the LiveStreamers have no control over this, especially if they have been told differently in advance.

BTW, I also like your priorities.
JoeyA

 

[JoeyA]

Yes mic up the players.

I like the 2 commentators.

Good audio ballance...sometimes its hard to get the volume just right,to loud and then to quiet.

I like having the score posted in the video window.

Two commentators is nice but they cost money. The other two items are easily handled.
JoeyA

 

[daphish1]

How important are the following to the live stream viewer:
1. To be entertained.
2. To learn.
3. To participate in the entertainment. (chat)

Well I think it has to be entertaining, otherwise no one will watch.

I prefer to watch streams when 1 pocket is being streamed which is my best chance at learning anything during a stream. Here's where I really enjoy having good commentators in the booth, whether its prearranged like Accu-stats or impromptu sit-ins by top players for a match.

I don't usually pay much attention to the chat.

I think if a streamer is planning to produce a DVD of the match then they shouldn't talk back and forth with the chat. It would sound better if questions were fed to them by someone on location and they could work them into the broadcast, IMO. I don't think most streamers have a producer though.

 

[mlalum]

i object to your point that someone can just turn off the volume if they don't want to hear the bad commentary. I wish i could. But having the volume and chat on is the only way to get details about the score, the players and the tournament. (i don't fault the free streamers for scoring and info problems because it's free.) But i still want to know. So that's why i have to listen and watch the chat.

I found the pool streaming community a year or so ago and was pleasantly surprised. I'm still thankful that it's available. yesterday i couled see earl, hillbilly, bowman, putnam and John S. What a deal. I wouldn't have thought that possible.

but don't dare complain cause the inbred moderator squad will jump in and tell you to mute it. I would but as explained above i can't. Seems to me the streaming crowd is too quick to pat themselves on the back rather then contemplate improvements.

to me the biggest problem with the free streams are the same people show up in the chat and they spend most of their time talking with each other and the commentator. the commentator likes his buddies so they go back and forth and any seriousness on the match is lost. jesus John S and Putnam were playing the final last night and you'd never know it by listening to the commentator. that happens to different degrees at all the free chats. I'd like to see more respect for the players.

also there are a lot of false claims as far as viewers are concerned. Dwight kept saying he had 3000 viewers. basic internet knowledge will tell you that most of those people were usstream passer bys not people looking for pool. and as there was never more than 100 folks watching they obviously didn't stick around when they found out what it was,.

still it's worth it to me to watch some great pool players despite the commentary.but that's happening less often. and some of the PPV stuff has been good. everyone can stream now. so eventually someone will put together a good package and understand that catering to the old inside pool crowd won't get them to where they want to go - a successful business model.

 

[Tom In Cincy]

Tom,
Were the 3 camera setups fixed? Were the three camera angles always visible on your monitor or did they have a "producer" switching to the different cameras?

Fixed and switched. Only one camera at a time to view.
Someone was switching the cameras when necessary. Very well done IMO.

 

[lady9ball]

This weekend there were at least three streams worth watching, probably more, so it was tough to choose which one to watch. I would LOVE it if every stream could send out a text message when a match started, then I could decide if/when/where I should be tuning in. Doesn't twitter function something like that?

Personally, I very rarely get involved in chat and quite often have the audio muted. If I'm listening to the commentator, they might start talking about something that someone said in chat, then I have to look through the chat and find out what they're talking about, next thing ya know I've missed the super-shot of the day. On the other hand, if the players were mic'ed and vocal, I would almost have to listen.

 

[Fast Lenny]

i object to your point that someone can just turn off the volume if they don't want to hear the bad commentary. I wish i could. But having the volume and chat on is the only way to get details about the score, the players and the tournament. (i don't fault the free streamers for scoring and info problems because it's free.) But i still want to know. So that's why i have to listen and watch the chat.

I found the pool streaming community a year or so ago and was pleasantly surprised. I'm still thankful that it's available. yesterday i couled see earl, hillbilly, bowman, putnam and John S. What a deal. I wouldn't have thought that possible.

but don't dare complain cause the inbred moderator squad will jump in and tell you to mute it. I would but as explained above i can't. Seems to me the streaming crowd is too quick to pat themselves on the back rather then contemplate improvements.

to me the biggest problem with the free streams are the same people show up in the chat and they spend most of their time talking with each other and the commentator. the commentator likes his buddies so they go back and forth and any seriousness on the match is lost. jesus John S and Putnam were playing the final last night and you'd never know it by listening to the commentator. that happens to different degrees at all the free chats. I'd like to see more respect for the players.

also there are a lot of false claims as far as viewers are concerned. Dwight kept saying he had 3000 viewers. basic internet knowledge will tell you that most of those people were usstream passer bys not people looking for pool. and as there was never more than 100 folks watching they obviously didn't stick around when they found out what it was,.

still it's worth it to me to watch some great pool players despite the commentary.but that's happening less often. and some of the PPV stuff has been good. everyone can stream now. so eventually someone will put together a good package and understand that catering to the old inside pool crowd won't get them to where they want to go - a successful business model.

To be quite frank no one wants to hear a bunch of complaining when people are spending there time and money to bring you something for nothing. I have to deal with an internet connection that is half as good as the one in my own home to stream with. I have had some sponsor help and a good deal of fan support which I am grateful for. I think the free streamers should be commended most certainly, I like how people complain about streams that cost them nothing, if it sucks then turn it off, if you paid for it and it sucks well that is another story.

The right business model is not PPV, you have 1000's of people for a free stream and 50-100 for PPV, it just does not make sense especially if your sponsoring a PPV stream. I know you will dispute the numbers because you know better then the people who look at the Google Analytics and also the metrics report from Ustream, if your stream goes to the home page of Ustream then your numbers will not be spot on at all but your hits on your website will be but some people go to your Ustream page instead. I have several thousand people signed up for our newsletter so there are fans out there in the thousands watching these live pool events.

If pool had money in it then you could have a few good paying sponsors to make the venture profitable with top of the line equipment, travel and expenses paid for and a payed crew but then again if pool had money in it then the major tournaments would be live on ESPN and not on Ustream.

I can say this that the live streamers out there do not have an easy job to do, your there before it begins and until it ends, 12 hours or more of doing it and if your solo on commentary then it can be rough along with if you play in the events which I always do. I have times where my stream might be choppy, usually it runs very smooth.

I am not a pro anything so my commentary sucks, my camera is only one angle but the audio and video and very clear for a live stream. I would like to do multiple angles and have Grady, Mataya and Incardone hanging out ready to jump in the booth but that is not the reality of it.

I think live streams will be better when the internet upload speeds improve at most places and the businesses in the industry get behind us, we have a small group of sponsors spreading there cash out among a few streamers. Those businesses need to make money first before they can help out so I understand ATM it might not be so simple or easy.

For me this is a hobby, I love the game and want to give something back. Those who know me will tell you that the last thing on my mind is money and that includes my sponsors. I give a good deal of my time to doing this, 5 days a month I do this and stream about 40 hours or more a month, this month it will be about 65 hours of streaming.

 

[david(tx)]

I was just thinking about all of the things people talk about concerning Liver Streams.

It is apparent that some people enjoy the commentary of specific commentators, while others prefer no commentary.

For the record, there is nothing like being right there on the spot where the play is happening but wouldn't it be nice if your favorite commentator could sit at home and commentate on the match as it is happening?

How about two commentators that have "chemistry" with each other, sitting in different parts of the world, simultaneously doing color and promotion?

What about having microphones hooked up to every player? Some of the players might not like it but if it promotes the sport and people enjoyed hearing the murmurs and quiet talk of the player, it has to be good for the sport. I would be more inclined to watch live streams if the players' words could be heard.

Also, I think the chat rooms are great fun for the chatters and if their is a moderator available to ride herd on the chatters, the commentators can have some fun interacting with the chat room on occasion.

Larger screens would be a plus.
Higher resolution is always desirable.

How important are the following to the live stream viewer:
1. To be entertained.
2. To learn.
3. To participate in the entertainment. (chat)

What are the most important reasons for watching a pool match? For me, it is watching a particular player or matchup between two particular players of my interest at that point in time, with unique color commentating. The only time I want to hear long jokes, old but good stories is when there is a solid break in the action. I've been guilty of telling a story on occasion while action is taking place and when I think about it today, I still cringe. :embarrassed2: I guess we all live and learn.

I love to receive updates about other matches going on at pool tournaments but that has to be the job of the producer. The producer has to have a runner or have this information fed to the commentators for them to provide it to the viewers.

Another question, I have for the people who purchase match videos on a regular basis. Would you prefer to have commentators who NEVER interact with the live stream audience or would you prefer to have commentators who carefully articulate who and what they are referring to in the chat room? Keep in mind, that the screen names make no sense to anyone unless you know who the screen name belongs to.

There are lots of things that people are interested in like the player's accomplishments, past and current. Personal information about the individual players is always interesting.

And finally:
What improvements to Live Streaming would you like to see?

JoeyA

I go for entertainment , but get caught up in the chat , but i like to acknowledge the streamer , for the most part they aren't making a living from the streams.


In the perfect streaming world i wish the streams could put up a FAQ page to save themselves from having to respond to the same questions over and over.

I've seen the same person come to the chat early in the day only to return later and ask the same question.Because of the situation i'm in i haven't contributed one dime to the streams , and it bugs me.


I wish the people who are having their tournament streamed would invest in a page and maintain the brackets themselves , shouldn't be the streamers responsibility.

I don't care about the brackets , because i'm there to watch no matter who is playing , i don't have any favorites per say. I like a singular voice commentating.


I hope the streamers doing the leg work get rewarded in the long run , those putting out to bring a viewable product and those that support them. If they bring pool up and viewers go up and pool becomes more popular because of their efforts the big media companies will come in and throw a lot of money at it and push them out.

Streamers are letting you see matches unedited , i doubt this would happen on television. Streamers are also accommodating the pool room owners by having flexible start times so they can have the calcuttas.

 

[Hidy Ho]

To be quite frank no one wants to hear a bunch of complaining when people are spending there time and money to bring you something for nothing. ...

Well, I hope you are up for constructive criticism. Otherwise, how would it improve?

For the stream, I would like to see who's playing and match scores updated on screen.

Yesterday, USBA's 3 cushion stream and On The Rail stream with Shawn Putnam vs. Scott Townsend did a great job on this.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Well, I hope you are up for constructive criticism. Otherwise, how would it improve?

For the stream, I would like to see who's playing and match scores updated on screen.

Yesterday, USBA's 3 cushion stream and On The Rail stream with Shawn Putnam vs. Scott Townsend did a great job on this.

I am all open for constructive criticism but I just do not like where people complain about a free stream as if they are owed this. I cant do much about the internet connection, sometimes its solid and the stream works flawless about 95% of the time but then you have times it does not work great, it could be the internet connection, Ustream, computer on my end or your end. I personally know that I need to have commentators other then just myself in the booth because I am not very good at it and I was not told this but know it. Thanks for the kudos and I am glad you enjoyed the stream from OTR. :wink:

 

[david(tx)]

Well, I hope you are up for constructive criticism. Otherwise, how would it improve?

For the stream, I would like to see who's playing and match scores updated on screen.

Yesterday, USBA's 3 cushion stream and On The Rail stream with Shawn Putnam vs. Scott Townsend did a great job on this.

Well, I hope you are up for constructive criticism. Otherwise, how would it improve?



I think you missed his point , without funding there will be no improvement , for your part it is free. They don't need constructive criticism yest they need funding , then competition will cause improvement.

 

[JoeyA]

I think if a streamer is planning to produce a DVD of the match then they shouldn't talk back and forth with the chat. It would sound better if questions were fed to them by someone on location and they could work them into the broadcast, IMO. I don't think most streamers have a producer though.

I like that idea a lot. The questions could be taken from the chat by one of the commentators and fed to the color man. I've done that some but haven't polished it to a fine shine.

BTW, some streamers do have producers.

JoeyA