Living in the past ain't so bad!!!

[SJDinPHX]

Congrats on a great thread Roy, (Road trip USA,,Pool halls that must be visited)
Please allow the old guys to digress, I sincerely wish all of the younger guys,
who joined in your thread, could have experienced some of the old rooms that
were around before most of them were just a gleam in their father?s eye.
I?ve been in most of them, but time has a way of eroding your memory.
I?m going to ask the older guys to chime in with some of their favorites.
The standout places,for me, all had one thing in common. Good lighting, good
Equipment and wall to wall action. The obvious places, such as Bensinger?s,
Seven Eleven, Amsterdams were all great venues. But how about ? The Rathole?
on Woodward ave. in Detroit, or Peter Pan billiards in SLC, or the gem of them
all, Cochran?s in San Francisco? (Listen to Ronnie Allen describe Cochran?s in
his recent audio tapes) There was no place on earth like the boom years of the
50?s 60?s and 70?s in San Francisco. I hope some of the old timers on here will
respond with some of their favorites.
(sorry guys, all my apostrophes turn to question marks when I hit
submit. Dont know how to fix it?????)

 

[pwd72s]

The older I get...the better I was.

 

[ShootingArts]

ratty old dives

I played mostly ratty old dives and equally old halls from Corpus Christi to Atlanta. Some large, some small, the main thing was that they were about pool. Sure some had other things going on too but the main focus of every good place was pool, not music, not noisy machines or equally noisy people, pool. I think I could have walked into any of these places anywhere in the world and have been "home" as soon as I walked in the door. From Padre Island to Augusta, up to Terre Haute Indiana, the faces, the names, and the accents changed, the people were all members of the same brotherhood of the pool hall. It seems to take some age on a place to have these people gather there, bright shiny new places never seemed to have the same feel.

Hu

 

[jay helfert]

Congrats on a great thread Roy, (Road trip USA,,Pool halls that must be visited)
Please allow the old guys to digress, I sincerely wish all of the younger guys,
who joined in your thread, could have experienced some of the old rooms that
were around before most of them were just a gleam in their father?s eye.
I?ve been in most of them, but time has a way of eroding your memory.
I?m going to ask the older guys to chime in with some of their favorites.
The standout places,for me, all had one thing in common. Good lighting, good
Equipment and wall to wall action. The obvious places, such as Bensinger?s,
Seven Eleven, Amsterdams were all great venues. But how about ? The Rathole?
on Woodward ave. in Detroit, or Peter Pan billiards in SLC, or the gem of them
all, Cochran?s in San Francisco? (Listen to Ronnie Allen describe Cochran?s in
his recent audio tapes) There was no place on earth like the boom years of the
50?s 60?s and 70?s in San Francisco. I hope some of the old timers on here will
respond with some of their favorites.
(sorry guys, all my apostrophes turn to question marks when I hit
submit. Dont know how to fix it?????)

On the West Coast, it was Cochran's and The Palace in S.F. and on the East Coast 7/11 and Guys & Dolls in New York. L.A. had 4th & Main, Dallas had the Cotton Bowl, Miami had Congress, Chicago had Bensingers, 211 Club in Portland, The Jointed Cue in Sacramento (still there), Rusty's in Dallas, Golden Cue in Queens, NY, The Sport Palace in New Orleans, Jack & Jill in Arlington, VA, Baker's in Tampa, Forest Park in Dayton, Colfax in Denver, LeCue in Houston, Golden 8-Ball in Phoenix and Ye Billiard Den in Los Angeles are a few old spots that come to mind. A few of the true action rooms from the old days.

 

[gulfportdoc]

Honorable mention

Ames in NYC, McGann's in Pittsburgh, Mergard's in Cincinnati. All tabernacles of pool!

Doc

 

[Still_Learning]

...Golden 8-Ball in Phoenix...

Oh, the Golden 8-Ball. Yes. My (cheap, crappy) car was stolen there once. One of the best things that ever happened to me, in retrospect, but that's for another thread.

In my first life as a pool player (I'm on my third now, with 3-6 years off in-between each), I took free lessons from Danny DiLiberto at the Golden 8 on many a Wednesday afternoon. The pro shop owner there, Steve "Jazz" Jascewitz (sp?), made me a break cue once which I wish I had never sold. Jazz taught me how to change my own tip.

I won my first "C" level tournament at the Golden-8, and played the final match on the 8-foot table in the sunken area deep inside the building, with a surprising number of people watching.

Danny D. taught me about staying on-line, the 90-degree angle rule, the value of thinking ahead, and the importance of a light grip. ("Why are you strangling your cue like that? Does it owe you money?") We used to take turns playing him 9-ball, and he'd explain his thinking as he ran out on us every time we missed. I beat him *once* when I stayed within my game for a change. Back then I could barely run four balls, and when I accepted that fact, I decided to run no more than three balls, then look for a good safety. I hooked him twice and that's the only time I ever beat him. Then I moved out of AZ.

He also introduced me to Accu-Stats by lending me a couple of tapes. If I ever see Danny D. again, I'm buying him a dinner at any restaurant we can get to.

 

[9BallPaul]

On the West Coast, it was Cochran's and The Palace in S.F. and on the East Coast 7/11 and Guys & Dolls in New York. L.A. had 4th & Main, Dallas had the Cotton Bowl, Miami had Congress, Chicago had Bensingers, 211 Club in Portland, The Jointed Cue in Sacramento (still there), Rusty's in Dallas, Golden Cue in Queens, NY, The Sport Palace in New Orleans, Jack & Jill in Arlington, VA, Baker's in Tampa, Forest Park in Dayton, Colfax in Denver, LeCue in Houston, Golden 8-Ball in Phoenix and Ye Billiard Den in Los Angeles are a few old spots that come to mind. A few of the true action rooms from the old days.

Hey Jay, good list. I'm thinking you mean the 211 Club in Seattle, not Portland.

 

[jay helfert]

Hey Jay, good list. I'm thinking you mean the 211 Club in Seattle, not Portland.

Sorry, I was smoking weed in those days. I got lost a lot.

Portland had a good room too. Was it the Cue Room or something like that?

 

[Andrew Manning]

On the West Coast, it was Cochran's and The Palace in S.F. and on the East Coast 7/11 and Guys & Dolls in New York. L.A. had 4th & Main, Dallas had the Cotton Bowl, Miami had Congress, Chicago had Bensingers, 211 Club in Portland, The Jointed Cue in Sacramento (still there), Rusty's in Dallas, Golden Cue in Queens, NY, The Sport Palace in New Orleans, Jack & Jill in Arlington, VA, Baker's in Tampa, Forest Park in Dayton, Colfax in Denver, LeCue in Houston, Golden 8-Ball in Phoenix and Ye Billiard Den in Los Angeles are a few old spots that come to mind. A few of the true action rooms from the old days.

I've lived all my life (except college) within a few miles of Arlington, but I'm not old enough to have experienced Jack and Jill. I feel like I really missed out.

-Andrew

 

[SJDinPHX]

Great input,as usual !

Sorry, I was smoking weed in those days. I got lost a lot.

Portland had a good room too. Was it the Cue Room or something like that?

While you were roaming the Northwest did you ever stumble into Max
Wilsons pool hall in Tacoma? (Crazy Whitey's hangout) Oh, by the way
Jay, If you went to the Cotton Bowl in Dallas, you would have been
sweating a football game! However If you went to the Cotton "Palace"
(bowling alley) you would have gotten to watch pool. " Ain't it funny
how time slips aawaaay" ? You nailed most of the good ones.

 

[Island Drive]

On the West Coast, it was Cochran's and The Palace in S.F. and on the East Coast 7/11 and Guys & Dolls in New York. L.A. had 4th & Main, Dallas had the Cotton Bowl, Miami had Congress, Chicago had Bensingers, 211 Club in Portland, The Jointed Cue in Sacramento (still there), Rusty's in Dallas, Golden Cue in Queens, NY, The Sport Palace in New Orleans, Jack & Jill in Arlington, VA, Baker's in Tampa, Forest Park in Dayton, Colfax in Denver, LeCue in Houston, Golden 8-Ball in Phoenix and Ye Billiard Den in Los Angeles are a few old spots that come to mind. A few of the true action rooms from the old days.

Yep played in most all your above rooms at one time, also you forgot the room you/jay owned in Belmont Shores CA. Also the room in San Diego that had the red seating area and I think Swanee played out of there. There was a great room I think in OK that Buddy Hall played out of (Ames??) great burgers, tho forgot that name too, in Tampa, Jr. Golf had a joint with rubber tiled flooring and I think all Gold Crowns. There was also a great room in St. Louis where Ardell/Blackie Lasseur played out of and so many other rooms in the deep south. If we start counting the rooms in MN back in the day we can go on and on eh? Oh yeah, how about the room that was in Bellflower that eventually became the first Hard Times when it moved, I think it was up by the 90 fwy??? Time slips the mem eh?

 

[SJDinPHX]

A well planned room.

Oh, the Golden 8-Ball. Yes. My (cheap, crappy) car was stolen there once. One of the best things that ever happened to me, in retrospect, but that's for another thread.

In my first life as a pool player (I'm on my third now, with 3-6 years off in-between each), I took free lessons from Danny DiLiberto at the Golden 8 on many a Wednesday afternoon. The pro shop owner there, Steve "Jazz" Jascewitz (sp?), made me a break cue once which I wish I had never sold. Jazz taught me how to change my own tip.

I won my first "C" level tournament at the Golden-8, and played the final match on the 8-foot table in the sunken area deep inside the building, with a surprising number of people watching.

Danny D. taught me about staying on-line, the 90-degree angle rule, the value of thinking ahead, and the importance of a light grip. ("Why are you strangling your cue like that? Does it owe you money?") We used to take turns playing him 9-ball, and he'd explain his thinking as he ran out on us every time we missed. I beat him *once* when I stayed within my game for a change. Back then I could barely run four balls, and when I accepted that fact, I decided to run no more than three balls, then look for a good safety. I hooked him twice and that's the only time I ever beat him. Then I moved out of AZ.

He also introduced me to Accu-Stats by lending me a couple of tapes. If I ever see Danny D. again, I'm buying him a dinner at any restaurant we can get to.

David Lee built a real good room,lots of action (for Phoenix) He had a parking problem and it became an all night hangout for a rough crowd.
The neighbors petitioned to shut it down. On the day David was to plead his case in court, there was a killing in the joint. They made him shut it
down for good. ( By the way, the table in the pit was a 9 footer.)
Maybe you played better than you thought!
Dick

 

[catscradle]

"Living in the past ain't so bad...", that's assuming you have a past, not sure I do.

 

[Mike Templeton]

In South Carolina it was Marvin Taylor's Shell Station near the lake in Greenwood. That's where I cut my teeth watching action from all over the country.

I first started going there when I was 15. My Dad and Grandma didn't really mind me going, but I was only 15 years old, and had a restricted driving license. So by law, I could only drove from 6am till 8pm. Of course I usually ended up being home on school nights at 8pm and I stayed till at least 6am on weekends. I wish there was more film and pics of the old matchups and tournaments back then.

Mike

 

[jrhendy]

Oh yeah, how about the room that was in Bellflower that eventually became the first Hard Times when it moved, I think it was up by the 90 fwy??? Time slips the mem eh?

That was Verne Peterson's Billiard Palace. In the late 60's & 70's you could see a pay ball game on the 5 x 10 with 5 or 6 champions in it. Sometimes it was $20/40 & double on runout. Butch Van Syoc and his dad bought it from Verne & we played liability snooker on the tight 6 x 12 (Big Bertha) that they still play on at Hard Times in Bellflower. If you were going off you could bite both shifts (Butch & his dad). Jim Morgan said it was the only room around where you could go in busted and lose a thousand.

No one mentioned the original Hollywood Billiards, downstairs at Hollywood & Western. I got quite a bit of my pool education there. Met and played Ronnie Allen there in the late 50's. We played $5 snooker on the 5 x 10 and when he stuck $5 in the side pocket I stood there and looked at it. Ronnie said "That's the up money kid. How long you been on the road". Hollywood Jack ran the place. I used to go in with Sleepy Bob playing Jack Perkins one pocket. Funny, Bob always ended up with some $$ even after we got beat. Go figure. Ronnie, Jack, Fat Bill & Sleepy Bob - they all turned me every way but loose, but I got an education. I was a straight shooting kid though, and beat the regulars like Feathers, George the Drummer and Fitz. You could even play the horses in there. An easy drive from Fourth & Main in Los Angeles that had its own cast of characters. John

 

[SJDinPHX]

Memory lane

That was Verne Peterson's Billiard Palace. In the late 60's & 70's you could see a pay ball game on the 5 x 10 with 5 or 6 champions in it. Sometimes it was $20/40 & double on runout. Butch Van Syoc and his dad bought it from Verne & we played liability snooker on the tight 6 x 12 (Big Bertha) that they still play on at Hard Times in Bellflower. If you were going off you could bite both shifts (Butch & his dad). Jim Morgan said it was the only room around where you could go in busted and lose a thousand.

No one mentioned the original Hollywood Billiards, downstairs at Hollywood & Western. I got quite a bit of my pool education there. Met and played Ronnie Allen there in the late 50's. We played $5 snooker on the 5 x 10 and when he stuck $5 in the side pocket I stood there and looked at it. Ronnie said "That's the up money kid. How long you been on the road". Hollywood Jack ran the place. I used to go in with Sleepy Bob playing Jack Perkins one pocket. Funny, Bob always ended up with some $$ even after we got beat. Go figure. Ronnie, Jack, Fat Bill & Sleepy Bob - they all turned me every way but loose, but I got an education. I was a straight shooting kid though, and beat the regulars like Feathers, George the Drummer and Fitz. You could even play the horses in there. An easy drive from Fourth & Main in Los Angeles that had its own cast of characters. John

You sure bring back the mem's John. Remember "Popcorn" Johnny Miller?
He knew every potential score in all of So. Cal. He used to keep a Bus
schedule in his pocket to send the scuffs out to hit those spots.
When I'd drive down from S.J., He'd have me hauling them around all
over the place. We usually scored good. What an organizer he was.
Saw him about 10-12 years ago in Tommy's joint in Mesa. Had not seen him since the 70's. Cost me lunch and a small bite.Well worth it, I really liked John. He did'nt
stay long. Is he still around?

 

[jay helfert]

While you were roaming the Northwest did you ever stumble into Max
Wilsons pool hall in Tacoma? (Crazy Whitey's hangout) Oh, by the way
Jay, If you went to the Cotton Bowl in Dallas, you would have been
sweating a football game! However If you went to the Cotton "Palace"
(bowling alley) you would have gotten to watch pool. " Ain't it funny
how time slips aawaaay" ? You nailed most of the good ones.

You know Dick, I actually did go to the Texas-OU football game a couple of times, and I have made that slip up before. Cotton Bowl is so imbedded in my brain. Even when I used to tell guys about that place, I would call it the Cotton Bowl.

And I shouldn't have left out two places in L.A. The Billiard Palace in Bellflower. It's only one block from Hard Times and I bet 99% of the players that go into Hard Times have no idea the Billiard Palace was so close.

And the second place was Tropicana Lanes, where Richie took on the world at 9-Ball...and WON!

 

[SJDinPHX]

?????????

You know Dick, I actually did go to the Texas-OU football game a couple of times, and I have made that slip up before. Cotton Bowl is so imbedded in my brain. Even when I used to tell guys about that place, I would call it the Cotton Bowl.

And I shouldn't have left out two places in L.A. The Billiard Palace in Bellflower. It's only one block from Hard Times and I bet 99% of the players that go into Hard Times have no idea the Billiard Palace was so close.

And the second place was Tropicana Lanes, where Richie took on the world at 9-Ball...and WON!

Jay, did the Tropicana replace the Wonder Bowl as the action joint?
It must have been after I moved to Texas. I've been to both but I
wondered when the transition occurred.

 

[jrhendy]

You sure bring back the mem's John. Remember "Popcorn" Johnny Miller?
He knew every potential score in all of So. Cal. He used to keep a Bus
schedule in his pocket to send the scuffs out to hit those spots.
When I'd drive down from S.J., He'd have me hauling them around all
over the place. We usually scored good. What an organizer he was.
Saw him about 10-12 years ago in Tommy's joint in Mesa. Had not seen him since the 70's. Cost me lunch and a small bite.Well worth it, I really liked John. He did'nt
stay long. Is he still around?

When you mentioned Popcorn it reminded me of another place that should be on our list, Five Points Bowl in El Monte. That is where I met Popcorn and it was the first 24 hour joint in the San Gabriel Valley in the 60's with lots of players coming through. I don't know where John is now. Hasn't been in CA for many years. He steered more good players around than anyone I know. The best was Don Watson. Corn would sober him up & he would take off whoever they stuck up there. Buttermilk was around then, sneaking players in & out of there. He put me on Cornbread once in some cheap 9 ball. Alibi Al and Joe Veazy spent some time there when they first came out from back east. They had us convinced Al was the best player for a while. Ended up he couldn't even beat me, but Joe tortured me. Very treacherous, just like the rest of us LOL. Every place on the list had its time & you are right, the guys today will never know. John

 

[wincardona]

would this room fit??

On the West Coast, it was Cochran's and The Palace in S.F. and on the East Coast 7/11 and Guys & Dolls in New York. L.A. had 4th & Main, Dallas had the Cotton Bowl, Miami had Congress, Chicago had Bensingers, 211 Club in Portland, The Jointed Cue in Sacramento (still there), Rusty's in Dallas, Golden Cue in Queens, NY, The Sport Palace in New Orleans, Jack & Jill in Arlington, VA, Baker's in Tampa, Forest Park in Dayton, Colfax in Denver, LeCue in Houston, Golden 8-Ball in Phoenix and Ye Billiard Den in Los Angeles are a few old spots that come to mind. A few of the true action rooms from the old days.

Jay, the room that stands out over all other rooms that I played in is the Rack And Cue in Detroit. In terms of action there will never be a room,never never that will equal the action that the Rack had on a day to day basis. For a player the Rack was a room that kept you in stroke. Talk about characters, money people,and players,just to name a few, Cornbread Red,Jew Paul, Country, Al Sherman,Freddy Salem,Joe Tatro, Black Clancy ( big time drug dealer) that brought suit cases of money into the room. Jones,another big money man,Red Fox (not the comedian) How about Rosie? no one played higher than him,he lost millions,no joke or exaggeration.Then there were 20 guys that gambled at least as high as Plattis the attorney with no quit in them. Every top player in the country went to play in the Rack at one time or another.In addition to the pool action in the same building on the other side (that was accessible from the room) was a card room where there was big money people playing daily.What about Jerry Howard and his crew ,Louie,Wolfy,and many more who couldn't draw their ball,but played for tens of thousands? The times that I had in the Rack are priceless,and at times when i'm bored I think about those times and I feel young ,and invinceable again. If you know what I mean. Shit reality is setting back in,and I have to go to work,bye for now.