Local Tournament PERSPECTIVE on PRO PLAYERS
- Thread starter JoeyA
- Start date
Joey, this is a very loaded question IMHO......and a large part of it depends on the attitude and charisma of the pro.......somebody that is talented and likeable can take a few of your dollars and keep you asking for more.....a douchebag can send you right to the TD to complain
1. In a local bangers bar, they like tourneys on small bar tables where there might be a local favorite or two, but nobody plays above a B and anyone can win......these are usually races to 1, double elim.....they don't know the pros and will shoot somebody for trying to hustle their touney....
2. Handicapped tournies that actually has a TD that knows how to handicap.....since he knows how to handicap accurately, everyone is welcome because any player or any level can win on any given night.....
3. Handicapped tournies with TD's that don't know jack about handicapping (these are the majority) typically favor better players and it's more of a donation for the plebes......again, if a pro with charisma comes in, people will smile and donate....if he's a jerk, people will beyotch and complain....
4. Open tournies.....well, if you complain about a pro, you are an idiot.....it's open dummy
If it was a small donation in a weekly deal, I got zero issues donating to a pro that is fun to hang with......if it was a big monthly deal I practiced for, I might just get unhappy if someone shows up monthly to rob, especially if the entry is sizeable......lots of other factors too, you just never know....
Handicap the top players correctly. Top players act like nice people. Rocket science.
Thanks,
There are some simple aspects to this discussion that I see as facts having been around long enough.....
Pool players don't concentrate on just playing good and forgetting about who they are playing etc. They are too busy trying to whine and moan some money into their pocket by pretty much just showing up and using politics to win.
If they did just concentrate on their own pool, THEY'D PROBABLY BEAT THESE TOP GUYS YOU SPEAK OF from time to time, and their games would jump through the roof. Pool is really all about confidence after a certain point. The ironic thing is, if players just shut their mouths and concentrated on their games, they'd probably win a lot more in the long run. I guess that is the whole point actually.
I absolutely loathe, and always have, this whining being rewarded. And I hope nobody gets me wrong, if a tournament is on the downswing and a TD feels he needs to take some measures, that seems fine. It is the complaining from the obviously biased and invested players I can't stomach.
Pool players don't concentrate on just playing good and forgetting about who they are playing etc. They are too busy trying to whine and moan some money into their pocket by pretty much just showing up and using politics to win.
If they did just concentrate on their own pool, THEY'D PROBABLY BEAT THESE TOP GUYS YOU SPEAK OF from time to time, and their games would jump through the roof. Pool is really all about confidence after a certain point. The ironic thing is, if players just shut their mouths and concentrated on their games, they'd probably win a lot more in the long run. I guess that is the whole point actually.
I absolutely loathe, and always have, this whining being rewarded. And I hope nobody gets me wrong, if a tournament is on the downswing and a TD feels he needs to take some measures, that seems fine. It is the complaining from the obviously biased and invested players I can't stomach.
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Can I get an "AMEN" for this fine AZ'er...your like Yoda or something. LOL
Most amateurs would never get a chance to step into the batters box with Mariano Rivera, catch a pass from Payton, try to stop Kobe on a drive, or step into the ring with Manny pacquiao. There are very few sports where you can pay your entry fee and enter into a competition and shake hands with your opponnent who could possibly be one of the worlds best. And, to have that "worlds best" player actually take you and what you might be able to do seriously......and over the course of your match that you play against him/her.................you might even earn the honor of having that player view you as a peer.
That's what is so cool about pool. How many of us out there have played in tournaments with, or actually played against people we only read about in billiard magazines when we first started to play?
Only in pool (maybe golf).
dave
That's what is so cool about pool. How many of us out there have played in tournaments with, or actually played against people we only read about in billiard magazines when we first started to play?
Only in pool (maybe golf).
dave
I think the main reason a pro would consider playing in a local tourney is because they don't make enough money in the big events. Compare pool to any other sports and you can see that the pay off at the big tournaments are just not enough; they are humans they need to survive and they need money.
It'll be worth the price of admission just for a chance to say "yeah, I knocked the pro out of the tournament"
If he wins like 5 weeks in a row and people stop showing up, then of course make an adjustment.
So basically you are saying, he can show up and play if its convenient for you and then he shouldn't show up if it isn't convenient?
Gotta make up your mind, either its cool that the pros play or not.
Personally, I can see it chasing away some players but its all in the frame of mind you allow yourself to be in. if you go in with the attitude that your entry fee gives you a chance to have some real life pool lessons and then if and when you get knocked out, you can watch some great playing, and still learn.
Or, you pay your fee and get all p issy because you got knocked out by a pro and never enter the tournament again because of it, whos fault is that, yours or the pros?
Pro shmo, there's a whole lot more local talent that can kick your ass to be concerned with than a pro in a local weekly tournament.
The place I play Glenn Atwell played every week, I never cared that he played one way or the other for one because he was only one of three people I had to worry about, and two it's an open tournament...
There are b and below tournaments if you want that, but then I get thrown out of them and so would others at my level.
There's a real wide range from too good for b and below tounaments, to an actual A player, or a pro. I'm somewhere in there, much lower than Atwell, super sloppy A on my best day, but no room to complain. I have won against all those guys plenty of times, just have to get into your own groove and enjoy the game. They beat me more often than not, but that's how you push yourself to get better, especially pushes your safety game when you know your opponent can run rack after rack. Most places make them race to 5 when everyone else is racing to 3 or so when that large of a gap comes up for lower players.
The place I play Glenn Atwell played every week, I never cared that he played one way or the other for one because he was only one of three people I had to worry about, and two it's an open tournament...
There are b and below tournaments if you want that, but then I get thrown out of them and so would others at my level.
There's a real wide range from too good for b and below tounaments, to an actual A player, or a pro. I'm somewhere in there, much lower than Atwell, super sloppy A on my best day, but no room to complain. I have won against all those guys plenty of times, just have to get into your own groove and enjoy the game. They beat me more often than not, but that's how you push yourself to get better, especially pushes your safety game when you know your opponent can run rack after rack. Most places make them race to 5 when everyone else is racing to 3 or so when that large of a gap comes up for lower players.
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I have nothing against pros playing in any tourney long as it's not just a gift...if it is a lil race to 3 or 5 make the pro have to win a couple more...I've always been against barring someone from a pool tourney cuz they play too good...make the odds of winning as close as u can cross the board & let the chips fall where they may...Mskr it as even as you can but don't bar someone for going the extra mile in any sport
A pro giving out the 8 ball to a bunch of amateurs? No way unless the rest of the room shoots open speed(doubtful). I say let them play, but at least make them earn it. Come up with a better way to handicap them, the 8 ball is a joke.
In my area pros are allowed to play, but ratings range from special 5 to +5. A special 5 might play like an apa 6, and would get a game on the wire and the call 5 ball against a +5 pro(race to 5).
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Locally the local pro players tend to rotate the weekly tournaments. I think they schedule with each other where they will play so they all get a payday. Still not a guarantee that they will win. Anything can happen in a short race and it does. I think the competition helps players get better and makes it more enjoyable than just playing a ball banger.
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Locally the local pro players tend to rotate the weekly tournaments. I think they schedule with each other where they will play so they all get a payday. Still not a guarantee that they will win. Anything can happen in a short race and it does. I think the competition helps players get better and makes it more enjoyable than just playing a ball banger.
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Bangers regularly win this event getting only the 8ball. I've seen it time and time again.That's why the event fills up 64 practically every Tuesday night.
I bet even money when any pro comes to town that he will not win the event. Anyone can win this event and that's why it is popular with all skill levels. The top players have to play good AND GET LUCKY.
Wow that's a big field. I guess anything can happen in a race to 1(an equalizer in itself).
yes, there is nothing worse than talented players that are so arrogant that they feel compelled to make of all inferior players
Only thing that is close to as bad is inferior players thinking they are somehow top level players.
Very good post, Dave.
You are right about what you said in your post. I like your thinking!
Regards,
Lock N Load.
You are right about what you said in your post. I like your thinking!
Regards,
Lock N Load.
You're right, JoeyA.
This tournament is very hard to win. And Buffalo is one of the best at adjusting to the 8 ball spot to whom should get it or give it!! It may not look like a big spot but it is. Winning the break with the flip of the coin plays a big part in winning also! Nice thread, JoeyA.
Regards,
Lock N Load.
This tournament is very hard to win. And Buffalo is one of the best at adjusting to the 8 ball spot to whom should get it or give it!! It may not look like a big spot but it is. Winning the break with the flip of the coin plays a big part in winning also! Nice thread, JoeyA.
Regards,
Lock N Load.
To be honest I haven't read every post. But here are some of my thoughts.
1st: If it is an open non handicapped event, tough nuggies, it's open.
2nd: If it's by invite only, then who ever invited the pro should either be thanked or hanged (depending on the room).
3rd: If it's handicapped, and the handicap is fair, the pro might win more often, but only because they don't choke, not because they always stomp on the players.
My simple solution to tournament issues is this. You are the TD's customer, and if you don't care for the way the TD take care of her/his (politically correct there I think), don't give him business. If a lot of players are all on the same page, then I would and have suggested to just show up to the tournament, and not play in it. Just match up with each other. If the TD has any sense he/she will make the customers happy (or loose more money)...
So don't whine to the TD, show the TD how you feel.
Pete
1st: If it is an open non handicapped event, tough nuggies, it's open.
2nd: If it's by invite only, then who ever invited the pro should either be thanked or hanged (depending on the room).
3rd: If it's handicapped, and the handicap is fair, the pro might win more often, but only because they don't choke, not because they always stomp on the players.
My simple solution to tournament issues is this. You are the TD's customer, and if you don't care for the way the TD take care of her/his (politically correct there I think), don't give him business. If a lot of players are all on the same page, then I would and have suggested to just show up to the tournament, and not play in it. Just match up with each other. If the TD has any sense he/she will make the customers happy (or loose more money)...
So don't whine to the TD, show the TD how you feel.
Pete
very good point. probably 100 percent of the men and 90 percent of the women are not known by local players