Because it's dead straight. High right english just follows the 1 into the pocket. The path you diagrammed requires missing the shot on the 1 ball pretty badly to make the CB take that route (unless you're playing on 8-inch pockets).
Hi everyone, I want to get better on long jacked up draw shots, how do you suggest to practice them?
I'm having nearly no problems on stopping the cue ball.. but when I want to put the draw in I can't pocket it anymore and it seems to me that I'm hitting it with to much power..
Rather than discuss the merits (or lack thereof) of shooting jacked up draw shots, there are some things you can do to improve your chances of making these types of shots. The real value is in short jacked up shots that come up quite frequently. In fact, if you are tall enough, you can shoot a jacked-up draw shot with the ball frozen to the rail.
1) As you know, to put draw on the cue you have to hit below center. But when shooting jacked up, your eyes will mislead you -> because you are hitting the cue ball with the TOP part of the tip and NOT the bottom part. When sighting, you think you are aiming correctly, but you end up hitting the cue ball with the middle (or worse bottom) part of the tip - which will result in less than favorable results. The trick is aiming a little "lower" than you think you should to get draw.
2) When jacked up, you should choke up on your grip to avoid having to shoot side arm. Adding an element of "side arm" is one of the top reasons that people miss "simple" jacked up shots. Shooting a table length draw shot side arm amplifies these errors.
3) DON'T hit the ball as hard as you think you should. The tendency with these types of shots is to overstroke the ball - again amplifying any errors in your stroke. On this shot in particular (when striking a cue ball jacked up), it will be hopping down the table [not rolling] so it won't be losing much back spin due to friction. In your diagram, you can draw the ball all the way back to the starting point with a medium stroke.
4) Get your angle right. In cooperation with #1 above, you have to contact the cue ball at the right point, but it has to be at a favorable angle as well. This is dictated by the distance from the rail. Closer than a ball from the rail dramatically increases the difficulty of this shot as your shooting angle must increase, thus increasing the likelihood of a sidearm swipe at the ball. As the cue ball gets farther from the rail, the angle goes down, so the shot starts to get easier.
5) Practice: start with the object ball on the spot, and shoot it in the corner jacked up. You can develop a feel for stop and draw on this "easy" setup shot. Alter the cue ball's position when you're practicing. Just keep in mind, that if the cue ball is still hopping when it hits the object ball it can cause some unintended results: cutting the object ball, jumping the cue ball off the table surface, and even jumping the object ball off the table surface.
6) The Test: Put the cue ball 1 chalk from the rail on the first diamond and put the object ball 1 diamond from the pocket just off the rail -> everythign should be nice and straight in. Freeze the 9-ball on the middle spot. It is possible to draw the cue ball back to where you started and shoot the 9 in the corner. It's not a gimme and I would never shoot it in a game - but at least it will give you a point of reference to guage your jacked up shooting. It looks kinda like this:
One last thing: In my opinion, you should never look at the cue ball last on any shot unless you are only concerned with the cue ball's results. You will dramatically reduce your pocketing success rate by doing so, although the cue ball may in fact draw properly.
With all due respect, long jacked-up shots have no practical value. Every single time I've ever encountered such a shot, I practically write off the outcomwysiwyg=0
With all due respect, long jacked-up shots have no practical value. Every single time I've ever encountered such a shot, I practically write off the outcomwysiwyg=0
I said this because I think it's important to understand that nobody makes everything all the time. There are going to be scenarios where you're the underdog. Assuming there are no alternatives and this is the best play, all you can do is try your best and hope things work out. Citing every player you've ever seen make this shot with consistency is a waste of time. I once got into a proposition bet with a C player who could make this shot 9 of 10. It was one of the most insane things I ever saw. However, I'm certain if it ever came up in a game scenario, he'd dog his face off.
Thanks for all the answers... I asked about this shots because they both happened to me in the last weekly league.
The first long draw shot happened in the semi final, we were tied at 6-6 race to 7, and I was playing a really though guy with which I was supposed to lose but here it is what he left me and what I shot for the victory :
I just couldn't see any good safety against this guy..
For the other shot it happened earlier than the semifinal and the layout of the table was that I had both long cushions blocked and I needed to go uptable for the 2 but I jumped and scratched... The layout was approximately like this:
Another suggestion for the first shot if there looks to be a slight angle is serious top english. Looks like you would avoid the scratch in the corner pocket. I would try this if the table is playing fast. But either way, it's a tough shot
Second shot: The masse shot is possible, but like another poster suggested, rail first with the CB with high center/center right english is very natural and what I would play instead. The safe that is possible here is to bank the 1ball off the foot rail to the side rail behind the 8ball with a little upper right english. CB should end up next to the 8ball and 1ball on the other side. Leaves a challenging shot for him with no "given" pocket to make the 1ball in.
1) As you know, to put draw on the cue you have to hit below center. But when shooting jacked up, your eyes will mislead you -> because you are hitting the cue ball with the TOP part of the tip and NOT the bottom part. When sighting, you think you are aiming correctly, but you end up hitting the cue ball with the middle (or worse bottom) part of the tip - which will result in less than favorable results. The trick is aiming a little "lower" than you think you should to get draw.
To hit with the bottom edge indicates you have hit with top english, i.e., the bottom of the tip strikes the cue ball. Clearly not impossible or improbable, and sometimes desired, i.e., the curve around shot [frozen to the 8 ball and high inside english to pocket a ball in the corner]. Virtually every trick shot artist worth his salt shoots this - and it is invariably attempted at every trick shot exhibition or contest...
A very trivial example is jacked up over an object ball and putting top english on the cue. This results in being jacked up and hitting with the bottom edge of the tip. I would diagram it, but it seems fairly intuitive and quite simple.
As a technical matter, when viewing the cue ball from a jacked up position, take the plane intersecting the center of the cue ball. Striking the cue ball above this plane should result in using the bottom part of the tip (because both the tip and the cue ball are curved). The closer to the center plane you get, the closer to using the middle of the tip. And draw is achieved by hitting with the top of the tip's curved surface.
-td
[Edit] added diagram. My 2 minute MS Paint picture is quite crude, but you should get the gist. As you can see, the first cue is jacked up and hits the cue tip on the bottom. The second cue is hitting at about the middle of the tip, and the last cue is hitting a pretty extreme angle with draw (yeah, I can't use paint) - but contacting on the top of the tip anyway. For the top shot, you should always be aware of a double hit - or even a ferrule hit after you strike the cue ball. You can continue to increase the angle, but then you have to continue to change your angle of approach to hit with the bottom of the tip. At some point, the nomenclature top and bottom is lost, since you are approaching verticle. Front and back may be better then.
Hi everyone, I want to get better on long jacked up draw shots, how do you suggest to practice them?
I'm having nearly no problems on stopping the cue ball.. but when I want to put the draw in I can't pocket it anymore and it seems to me that I'm hitting it with to much power..
With the cue ball 1 ball away from the rail and the object ball at the other end of the table about 1 diamond from the pocket, I figure I have just under a 50% chance of making the ball and drawing the length of the table jacked up. The hardest part is making the ball Getting the draw is just a side effect. For me, this is too low of a percentage to shoot for the cheese. But just playing around, it's pretty cool to do.
As for execution: you don't need a huge amount of angle to draw the length of the table. Only about 30-40 degrees. Any more than this and you'll be standing on your toes (if you are short like me). Aim to strike the cue ball below the plane through the center of the cue ball looking at it at the jacked up angle. Oh, I like to use a closed bridge (oddly enough). Choke up on the cue about one hand or just a bit more to keep the side swing out of it. Shoot firm, but NOT hard. It's the same speed that you would need for a normal table length draw shot - and no harder.
Hope this helps!
-td
I made a video of this shot. Youtube video is processing it now. It should be done shortly and I'll post the link.
To hit with the bottom edge indicates you have hit with top english, i.e., the bottom of the tip strikes the cue ball. Clearly not impossible or improbable, and sometimes desired, i.e., the curve around shot [frozen to the 8 ball and high inside english to pocket a ball in the corner]. Virtually every trick shot artist worth his salt shoots this - and it is invariably attempted at every trick shot exhibition or contest...
A very trivial example is jacked up over an object ball and putting top english on the cue. This results in being jacked up and hitting with the bottom edge of the tip. I would diagram it, but it seems fairly intuitive and quite simple.
Well sure, when you're talking trick shots or masse's. I was talking about the context of the OP's first shot. No way to jack up there, draw the CB back, and hit the bottom edge of the cueball.
Well sure, when you're talking trick shots or masse's. I was talking about the context of the OP's first shot. No way to jack up there, draw the CB back, and hit the bottom edge of the cueball.
Correct. I'm not sure why you are trying to create a dispute where none exists. If you re-read my post, hitting with "top" (bottom of the cue tip) is a mis-hit and will NOT impart draw. In no way was I implying that you could draw with top. Perhaps it was just a misread, although I thought it was clear. Here it is again just to clarify for anyone else that didn't catch it.
my_previous_post said:
1) As you know, to put draw on the cue you have to hit below center. But when shooting jacked up, your eyes will mislead you -> because you are hitting the cue ball with the TOP part of the tip and NOT the bottom part. When sighting, you think you are aiming correctly, but you end up hitting the cue ball with the middle (or worse bottom) part of the tip - which will result in less than favorable results. The trick is aiming a little "lower" than you think you should to get draw.
As you can see (bolded portion), if you are mis-sighting the shot, then you may hit with the wrong part of the tip, thus NOT imparting draw as intended. So just to clarify for those that didn't get it, you must hit with the top part of the tip to impart draw. As Scott properly pointed out.
However it IS possible to hit with the bottom part of the tip when jacked up - but this will impart TOP spin and NOT draw.
Thomas...Understood. I did read the post correctly, but I misinterpreted what you wrote. In context with the OP's first shot, if you hit topspin you'd either jump the CB (maybe), or trap it under the tip. My apologies...
Thomas...Understood. I did read the post correctly, but I misinterpreted what you wrote. In context with the OP's first shot, if you hit topspin you'd either jump the CB (maybe), or trap it under the tip. My apologies...
No apologies necessary. Sometimes text without context creates ambiguities.
And yeah, you would most likely trap the cue ball at the speeds we're talking about. And nobody wants the sound of ferrule on cue ball. Especially those of us using ivory.
With the cue ball 1 ball away from the rail and the object ball at the other end of the table about 1 diamond from the pocket, I figure I have just under a 50% chance of making the ball and drawing the length of the table jacked up. The hardest part is making the ball Getting the draw is just a side effect. For me, this is too low of a percentage to shoot for the cheese. But just playing around, it's pretty cool to do.
As for execution: you don't need a huge amount of angle to draw the length of the table. Only about 30-40 degrees. Any more than this and you'll be standing on your toes (if you are short like me). Aim to strike the cue ball below the plane through the center of the cue ball looking at it at the jacked up angle. Oh, I like to use a closed bridge (oddly enough). Choke up on the cue about one hand or just a bit more to keep the side swing out of it. Shoot firm, but NOT hard. It's the same speed that you would need for a normal table length draw shot - and no harder.
Hope this helps!
-td
I made a video of this shot. Youtube video is processing it now. It should be done shortly and I'll post the link.
With all due respect, long jacked-up shots have no practical value. Every single time I've ever encountered such a shot, I practically write off the outcome. Prior to shooting, I say, "WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!" (anything you say when you are on an amusement park ride will do)
Being successful requires strong mechanics but even the very best players in the world are going to miss this shot more often than not.
You nailed it Jude. When I see a player jacking his cue up and trying to draw the ball down table, I think good luck to him. It's a low percentage shot for all but Mike Massey and maybe Larry Nevel. Even great players like Rodney and Johnny avoid these shots. They know better.
It's a low percentage shot for all but Mike Massey and maybe Larry Nevel. Even great players like Rodney and Johnny avoid these shots. They know better.
I remeber seeing a Accustats video of CJ Wiley shooting a table length jacked up draw shot in a tourney. He fired it in like it was a hanger and got out. He may have been in the "my best chance to win mode" although with young eyes and over-confidence it might have been a case of "whatever, I can't miss anything."
To TD873: Really thanks for the video and all the effort put in helping me out... The only thing that I need to point out is that the shot I diagrammed in my opinion is a bit more difficult than the one in your video beacuase of the more distance between the object ball and the pocket..
By the way thanks again for everything..
To TD873: Really thanks for the video and all the effort put in helping me out... The only thing that I need to point out is that the shot I diagrammed in my opinion is a bit more difficult than the one in your video beacuase of the more distance between the object ball and the pocket..
By the way thanks again for everything..
Actually, each shot has it's own difficulties, and different players will find each more challenging than the other. Some players hate long distance between the OB and cue ball, others dislike more distance between the OB and pocket.
For me (on this shot) I find that the closer the object ball is to the cue ball the easier the shot becomes, since you get to hit the cue ball softer and still get draw. [Draw being the key element here, since it is a jacked up shot.] If the shot was a slow roller with the OB just one diamond away, I think your point would be more valid, since pocket speed will "suck the ball up." But at table length draw speed, if you don't hit the pocket just right (either from 1 diamond or 3 diamonds away) you won't make the ball. And the harder you shoot, the more accurate you have to be.
I would guess the the percentage would be about the same (or maybe a little higher) for the shot you diagrammed. Would be interesting to experiment though
Not to beat a dead horse, but last night I pulled out my copy of Byrne's book of 350 shots. Did some skills refreshment and found him discuss basically the same shot. I scanned the cover and the actual page to .bmp format but they are too large to attach as files here so I put links to my frappr page. Hope they help some.
Getting the draw is just a side effect. For me, this is too low of a percentage to shoot for the cheese. But just playing around, it's pretty cool to do.
