longer shaft More deflection?

Cue Crazy

Cue Crazy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Any of you guys get requests for Longer shafts? If so whats the most over the usual lenth that's safe without turning the shaft into a rubber noodle, or a concrete vibrator, and creating possible deflection issues. We have a shooting buddy that keeps asking about having a longer shaft made for his sneaky, forget exactly how long he wanted It, but seems like It was quite a bit, wondering how far is safe to push. He's a good shot, and thinks the long shaft will help his game some, believe he had one like this before he mentioned, and It helped. Anyway he uses the thing for what sneakies were made for if you catch My drift, so I don't want to put anything in his hands that is going to have more deflection than It's worth, cause him confidence issues, and to loose his shirt. He mentioned cutting the longer shaft from another 1 piece house cue.
I'm Open to any input from those that have done the math, been there, or done that. I guess I will find out for Myself, but would be nice to have an idea of what to be carefull of if any unforeseen issues may arrive from it. guess I could always chop It down closer to normal size If It did not work out, but wondering what you guys experiences with this are, and what wisdom was gained from them?


Thanks
Greg
 
Longer shafts

Cue Crazy said:
Any of you guys get requests for Longer shafts? If so whats the most over the usual lenth that's safe without turning the shaft into a rubber noodle, or a concrete vibrator, and creating possible deflection issues. We have a shooting buddy that keeps asking about having a longer shaft made for his sneaky, forget exactly how long he wanted It, but seems like It was quite a bit, wondering how far is safe to push. He's a good shot, and thinks the long shaft will help his game some, believe he had one like this before he mentioned, and It helped. Anyway he uses the thing for what sneakies were made for if you catch My drift, so I don't want to put anything in his hands that is going to have more deflection than It's worth, cause him confidence issues, and to loose his shirt. He mentioned cutting the longer shaft from another 1 piece house cue.
I'm Open to any input from those that have done the math, been there, or done that. I guess I will find out for Myself, but would be nice to have an idea of what to be carefull of if any unforeseen issues may arrive from it. guess I could always chop It down closer to normal size If It did not work out, but wondering what you guys experiences with this are, and what wisdom was gained from them?


Thanks
Greg
Click to expand...


For what its worth. I have a Hagan cue, and it is a tremendous cue. It has (2) shafts both about 2 inches longer than the butt. It is in a cue display case and with the others it is the only one which the shafts are significantly longer than the other cues or the butt.

I think Bill Hagan was an experimenter with several unique techniques. JoeyinCal seems to have known him. I think most cuemakers tend to be followers verses leaders. (Though lead too much and he gets shot first)

Enough of my rambles
Ken
 
I've made shafts 32 inches long and they played fine. The length is not as important as the taper if you are worried about playability. Obviously if the cue has a very thin joint, it may get pretty whippy, but you can counteract that a bit with a stiff taper.
Deflection has VERY little to do with length, and has everything to do with the weight of the last 6" of the shaft.
 
Sheldon said:
I've made shafts 32 inches long and they played fine. The length is not as important as the taper if you are worried about playability. Obviously if the cue has a very thin joint, it may get pretty whippy, but you can counteract that a bit with a stiff taper.
Deflection has VERY little to do with length, and has everything to do with the weight of the last 6" of the shaft.
Click to expand...




Sheldon,
I Wrote a more detailed reply, but did not go through before the server went down yesterday. Basically what I believe I will be dealing with on this one, is a small diameter straight taper, so that's why the concern. I might be able to keep him happy with 32, don't remember if he wanted longer or not for sure, should know this week, when I get a chance to talk more with him on it. I can think of a few Ideas, but they all seem to have their hitches in theory, and My depth of boring is limited right now. wonder if a laminated would be a better choice for this situation? Sure the difference in feel would take some getting use to anyway, and don't really want to make that big of a change, just the lenth to keep him happy. Just started thinking about his because he keeps asking, and there will be quite a wait even after I start on It, depending on how I go about It. Needless to say I thought I should get the ball rolling since He wants It so bad. That way the wait is no longer then need be.

Thanks
Greg
 
Long Shaft

Greg, if you feel that a job is beyond your capabilities, there is no shame in telling the customer, that you have never done that & that you'll have to say no to this job. Practice making a long shaft for your own personal Q 1st. Then if you feel confident in doing the job, go for it. If you turn out bad work it will surely get around fast. There are some jobs & some customers, that I politely turn down,to this day. I do what I do best & won't PRACTICE on someone else's Q...JER
 
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
Greg, if you feel that a job is beyond your capabilities, there is no shame in telling the customer, that you have never done that & that you'll have to say no to this job. Practice making a long shaft for your own personal Q 1st. Then if you feel confident in doing the job, go for it. If you turn out bad work it will surely get around fast. There are some jobs & some customers, that I politely turn down,to this day. I do what I do best & won't PRACTICE on someone else's Q...JER
Click to expand...

Hey There JER,

I would have to say you are reading Me pretty well there. There is a since hesitation from me, mainly for the reason you mentioned, I simply have not done this on that small a diameter yet. I have plenty confidence By trial and error I can get something that I am satisfied with eventually, but without Me trying It out personally first, I am somewhat hesitate. I guess I will go over the diameter, and actual lenth and taper with him before i decide. If It's not too far out the box I might give It a try. I have done It on a cue I built, but had a larger diameter, and was under 32. It shoots fine, In fact the old man uses it more then any of our other cues we own. It's a real thin butt, but the shaft is a larger diameter. What I also did with it, was split the lenth added between the butt and shaft, that way they both just fit in a case, and this seemed to help keep It stable as well, without It all being added to the end of the shaft. Maybe I could custom build the butt to work with the shaft that way. I guess If I just went with the bar shaft Idea, atleast theres no real big cost, and could be done faster. Maybe I will just build one for Myself to his spects try It out for a while, and If I like It, I'll let him wack a few balls with it to see what he thinks, then I can clean up, and finish It for him, unless he wants to keep it rough looking, which he might. I guess thats the best I can do right now. Depending on what butt he wants to use, i might have to play with the weight and balance a little as well anyway. What does one usually charge for this kind of thing? It' not like I would be working with top quality material here. I mean ofcoarse High quality one pieces would be used, but they still are what they are. Most of what I see would be in labor.


Thanks
Greg
 
Sheldon:

I have a new Viking with 31" butt and shaft, and it has too much deflection. I would like to have the shaft bored to lighten it, leaving the original ferrule in place.

Any thoughts?
 
So, if you leave the original ferrule in place and bore it from the joint side, what do think you'll accomplish.
 
Michael:

I want to reduce the end mass of the shaft, to reduce deflection.

I called Predator to see if they would modify it, but they don't modify other shafts.
 
JohnnyP said:
Michael:

I want to reduce the end mass of the shaft, to reduce deflection.

I called Predator to see if they would modify it, but they don't modify other shafts.
Click to expand...
I don't blame them, that's why their in business. Why don't you just get a longer predator. I understand why and what you want to accomplish but it can be difficult to do to a finished shaft.
 
Michael:

The longest shaft they make is 30". Prolly doesn't make a difference, but I want a 31".

Oh well. Saving up for a P2.

http://www.jandssafeguard.com/John'sCues/Viking/
 
Greg
If someone orders a longer cue 59 or 60 inches from me. I encourage them to let me put the length in the butt or at least distribute it between the shaft and butt. If I distribute the increased length between the two then it is easier for the customer to use his/her existing case. By putting all the length in the butt than deflection is a NON issue with the shaft. I feel this is a better way to build a cue.
Jack Madden
www.johnmaddencues.com
 
Jack Madden said:
Greg
If someone orders a longer cue 59 or 60 inches from me. I encourage them to let me put the length in the butt or at least distribute it between the shaft and butt. If I distribute the increased length between the two then it is easier for the customer to use his/her existing case. By putting all the length in the butt than deflection is a NON issue with the shaft. I feel this is a better way to build a cue.
Jack Madden
www.johnmaddencues.com
Click to expand...



Jack,

Thanks for the advice, and you are very correct. I guess I should've updated this one for those interested.
What I actually decided to do was your second suggestion. Split the difference.
Since the cue in question is a sneaky pete, I have a oversized house cue for the butt section that will allow me to extend the joint out, and still have enough diameter at the joint to get a turn or 2 off of It. The shaft I am still undecided If I am going to use a quality shaft, or cut one off another house cue to match better. I need to ask him which he would prefer, but I will just put It together, and let him hit with It to see If something like that will work for him. He shoots with a one piece cue, so figured I would just let him continue to shoot with That one instead of tearing It apart to use, and build another altogether.
I have actually built a cue with the lenth split this way, and seemed fine like that. I did a modification to the last few inches of the shaft on that one recently, since It was built, but can't say for sure the mod was an improvement yet. I still need to shorten the ferrule alittle because It's solid for the most part, and seemed just a tad too long. This is on a personal cue, and just something I was playing around with. It does'nt seem to be anything I will be using in cues in the future.

I now think the best way to go is to split the difference for many reasons, and as you mentioned fitting the case is something else that works out better this way, altough this paticular cue for this guy will probably never even see a case :D .

Thanks for the input Jack, always good to hear other makers thoughts, and you helped back up what I came up with on this one. You make some really nice cues from what I've seen, so I know it's coming from a good source.

Greg
 
Greg,

I dunno what ratio and proportion would mean in cuemaking... but this has been widely observed in other fields of building

Hadj
 
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