Longevitiy in cuesports

Aaron_S

Aaron_S

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In the "SVB gambled with Efren in Philippines" thread, it was mentioned that Efren is still beating everyone in the PI for the cash. I think this is pretty phenomenal considering that the man is in his late 50's. I know that Efren's longevity in the game is not unprecedented. Raymond Ceulemans won at least one world 3-cushion championship in his 60's, and I think Lassiter won a world title or two in his 50's. Just wondering who else would be on the short list of players who continued to play world class pool (or billiards) into their 50's, 60's, or beyond.

Aaron
 
IMO, I don't think age is nearly as big of a factor as people think in pool.

Do your eyes go bad? Yes. Do you get tired walking around the table? Yes. Try comparing Efren to what Brett Farve has done. I don't think it is even close to try and compare the two.

I think pool is more about knowledge and visualizaton than physicality.
 
In terms of longevity, Willie Hoppe has to be among the most notable, winning world titles in 5 different decades!

From Wikipedia:
World 18.1 Balkline Champion (1906, 1908-1911, 1914-1927)
World 18.2 Balkline Champion (1907, 1910-1920, 1923, 1924, 1927)
World three-cushion Champion (1936, 1940-1943, 1947-1952)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Hoppe
 
Irving Crane

Aaron_S said:
In the "SVB gambled with Efren in Philippines" thread, it was mentioned that Efren is still beating everyone in the PI for the cash. I think this is pretty phenomenal considering that the man is in his late 50's. I know that Efren's longevity in the game is not unprecedented. Raymond Ceulemans won at least one world 3-cushion championship in his 60's, and I think Lassiter won a world title or two in his 50's. Just wondering who else would be on the short list of players who continued to play world class pool (or billiards) into their 50's, 60's, or beyond.

Aaron
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Actually, I think Irving Crane "holds the record" (if you want to phrase it that way) for world-class play longevity. Irv won major championships in six (6) different decades, and his last World Championship (1978) was at the ripe young age of 65. He finally retired from professional play two years later, in 1980, at age 67. But he kept on playing the game, albeit for his own enjoyment and not professionally, for another 16 years. In 1996 (five years before his passing), he finally retired from all play for good.

I believe Efren's probably the closest we have to Irv in modern times. I do believe that, even in the face of back problems, failing eyesight, etc., Efren will "find a way" to keep playing. The man is a divine gift to us, and I believe he will fulfill his divine purpose (i.e. keeping us enthralled with his spectacular play) for as long as he possibly can.

-Sean
 
jason said:
IMO, I don't think age is nearly as big of a factor as people think in pool.

Do your eyes go bad? Yes. Do you get tired walking around the table? Yes. Try comparing Efren to what Brett Farve has done. I don't think it is even close to try and compare the two.

I think pool is more about knowledge and visualizaton than physicality.
Click to expand...


Tho, once the physical side of our game slips, your game can become a house of cards. Hard to compare Brett with pool cept he's from the nort' and he's probably got a pool table @ hm.
 
As far as shooting accuracy goes, I do believe age plays a role in it, although it's not nearly as big as most would think. If table breaks easy and layout is relatively simple most of the times, I don't think Efren is still the favorite to win. However, with his wealth of knowledge on solving puzzles on the table, he's second to none.
 
Thanks for the replies everybody. I had forgotten about Crane and Hoppe. I think it's hard to compare pool to other sports (especially very physical sports like football, basketball, etc.). Things like speed, strength, and endurance are obviously not at a premium in cue sports, but things that I think would be equally hard to maintain such as fine muscle memory, concentration, and consistency certainly are.

Aaron
 
sfleinen said:
Actually, I think Irving Crane "holds the record" (if you want to phrase it that way) for world-class play longevity. Irv won major championships in six (6) different decades, and his last World Championship (1978) was at the ripe young age of 65. He finally retired from professional play two years later, in 1980, at age 67. But he kept on playing the game, albeit for his own enjoyment and not professionally, for another 16 years. In 1996 (five years before his passing), he finally retired from all play for good.

I believe Efren's probably the closest we have to Irv in modern times. I do believe that, even in the face of back problems, failing eyesight, etc., Efren will "find a way" to keep playing. The man is a divine gift to us, and I believe he will fulfill his divine purpose (i.e. keeping us enthralled with his spectacular play) for as long as he possibly can.

-Sean
Click to expand...

I agree. When it comes to playing the best the longest, it has to be Irving Crane. He does have a title in 6 different decades, and continued to play the game at a world-class level into his 70s. Although, according to Danny D in his book, dementia/senility started kicking in during his latter years.
 
De Ore' is another that lasted...He won world titles for something like 50 years straight..He won in Carom Billiards and Pocket Billiards. His records are unbelievable...

The most notable in modern pool would be Nick Varner...he is still a threat in events today. Starting his National terror 40-50 years ago...lol

Irving Crane takes the cake in my opinion...He won a world championship in 4 different decades. Even after he was losing touch with reality it is rumored he was still capable of running 60-100 balls in 14.1.
 
Old Farts still got it...

I play regularly at a senior center with 3 tight 9-footers with 760 cloth. Our best player, LeRoy (aka "The Great One") plays very sporty at age 82.
I took him to my local tavern and he dominated the league players on an 8-footer ("too easy", he cried. NEXT") for four hours. Missed twice.
We also have a 92 yr old, yes I said 92, who plays to about an APA 6 or TAP 5 level. He is still working on his game...he missed a long bank the other day, then went to an open table and shot that bank 20 times.

I am 55, play to a 6 in TAP 8 & 9 ball, and am improving every day.

So take heart and enjoy this great game for the rest of your life!
 
Walter Lindrun from Australia, without a doubt the most dominant cueist to ever play. He dominated English Billiards to the point that he basically killed the sport - the other players switched to snooker to avoid playing Lindrum. He was still the best in the world when he died in his early 60's. Don't let the records fool you, he's only listed as being world champion in 1933-1934. There were alot of funny politics going on, the English being the governing body of English Billiards did not like the idea of an Australian being top dog and easily beating their golden boy Joe Davis, so the sport kind of ended soon after as a worldwide sport.
 
With the different shooting mechanics that people are promoting, a progression in age may bring about changing your approach and setup at the table. Much like golf with Tiger Woods who has changed his swing a few times to accommodate his age and to try and prevent wear on his body. Whether it's a pool ball or a golf ball, you still need to contact it in the same spot to accomplish your goal. The young hotshot at 20 years old may be able to draw full table length on a consistent basis while the seasoned vet at 60 years old knows a different route to achieve the same goal.
 
Quite a few have played great into old age:

Walter Lindrum
Irving Crane
Alfred de Oro
Onofrio Lauri ran 260+ balls in his 70's
Johnny Ervolino ran 333 balls at 65
Bob Vanover still plays great in his 70's
Raymond Ceulemans still has a 3C avg of about 1.7-1.8 in his 70's

I remember hearing that Mosconi's had a practice run of 589 balls when he was in his late 50's.
 
Bill Dunsmore

Folks:

If I'm not mistaken, isn't Bill Dunsmore in his mid-70s? He's playing some great pool right now, and someone told me he was the last person to defeat Cicery Murphy in 14.1.

Thoughts?
-Sean
 
oldest in a world tournament

I know that Byron Gillette of Buffalo was the oldest man to compete in a world tournament at, I believe, 69. But a few years later Alfredo DeOro competed at a slightly older point. My question: does anyone know of guys older than that playing in a world championship?
 
Not sure how old he was at the time, but that Bob Ogburn was playing pretty doggone sporty on the Miz Senior Tour back in '01.

Aaron
 
hunger strike said:
I know that Byron Gillette of Buffalo was the oldest man to compete in a world tournament at, I believe, 69. But a few years later Alfredo DeOro competed at a slightly older point. My question: does anyone know of guys older than that playing in a world championship?
Click to expand...

Fred Davis, a world snooker and english billiards champion, won matches in his 70's.
As he lost his 'long' game he became more clever.
At first opportunity he would send a red ball up table and leave his opponent behind the pack, forcing a similar response.

This move turned the game into short safeties, the 12 foot table became
two six by sixes.
Some top 16 players never beat him, although he didn't have the stamina
to win enough matches to win the tournaments.

Even when he got older he would beam like a six year old when he was
in action.
His older brother, the great Joe Davis, used to tell him to 'wipe that silly
grin off his face.'
 
pt109 said:
Fred Davis, a world snooker and english billiards champion, won matches in his 70's
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If I recall correctly, Fred got to the semi finals of the world snooker championship when he was well into his 60's. Of course the standard was not as high then (and like a number of pros of that era, he could not compete against the long potters who came into the game in the 80's).

Btw, I think that it was Fred's brother Joe who was indirectly responsible for killing off English billiards, not Walter Lindrum as another poster has suggested. This was because Joe was responsible for promoting snooker as a serious game, fit to be played by professionals. And it turned out that English billiards could not compete with snooker, at one end of the scale as a spectator sport and at the other end because of the perceived learning curve for new players. English billiards was killed by snooker not by (the great) W Lindrum.
 
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