Looking for Opinions

[ENGLISH!]

Ken,

That One Eye Closed thing that John suggested can be a good thing.

Quite a few times when I have a tight shot, I look at & see it while standing but when I get down to shoot it, believe it or not, it stiill looks to me like I'm on it, but something(Woooo) tells me to check it. I close my left eye & it's a bit off. I line it up with just my shooting eye open but then open my left eye but change nothing & shoot it. Almost all of the time I make the shot & I know I would have missed it if I had not done that.

Just my $0.02 on John's suggestion.

All the Best to You &

 

[Okie]

Ken,

That One Eye Closed thing that John suggested can be a good thing.

Quite a few times when I have a tight shot, I look at & see it while standing but when I get down to shoot it, believe it or not, it stiill looks to me like I'm on it, but something(Woooo) tells me to check it. I close my left eye & it's a bit off. I line it up with just my shooting eye open but then open my left eye but change nothing & shoot it. Almost all of the time I make the shot & I know I would have missed it if I had not done that.

Just my $0.02 on John's suggestion.

All the Best to You &

I have used that many times. Even played that way for a stretch.

I am effectively afk for this weekend. I will get to Ekkes PDF asap! Thank you for taking the time to make it Ekkes!

Ken

 

[One Pocket John]

@Oakie and anyone who is interested in a professional analysis:


Here is a link to a pdf that I uploaded for you, where I analised in detail your approach and your stroke Oakie.

http://pdfcast.org/pdf/analysis-of-okie-s-approach-and-stroke

Just click on the link. A page opens-now scroll down until you can see the preview of the pdf file. Now you can read the file online, load it down or open the file.

I see that you are willing to train! Perfect training makes perfect!
Give it a try and you will improve- I am sure.

Best from beyond the pond!

Ekkes

Hey Ekkes thanks for the post. Ken is right eye dominant. I didn't catch the left eye line up on the shot. Good eye.:smile:

His approach to the shot is not square in the standing position. This could be the whole issue. That's why I have asked him to line up on the shot with his left eye closed, bend down into the shooting position and then open the left eye.

The further away an object ball is away from the shooter the less the dominant eye is dominant. The dominant eye will always see the QB properly as it is always the same distance from the head (most of the time). This can be illustrated with a simple test.

Ken's a pretty cool guy and I enjoy trying to help. If he gets this whole thing working we will probably see him on ESPN.

Thanks again Ekkes for jumping in to help. :smile:

John

 

[theUBC]

Sure.
Just some last words.
I believe him to be right eye dominant if he says so. I can not have a look through his eyes. Giving personal lessons I have a tool to find out which eye is dominant (CD and another one) i think he will know which one is his master eye.

Oakie is not consciously aware of aligning across the line of aim from right (butt of his cue) to left (tip of his cue) slightly. If he did he would adjust. He is aware of it when he watches his videos but not in the moment when he is playing. In this moment it just looks "right" to him.

When we sight a straight shot we unconsciously aim at the target. The target is the pocket.

Now to get rid of this wrong picture that looks right to him now, he has to change something - right?
If he will not change anything the results will stay the same or he has to consciously sight in a way looks wrong to him to get better results-I do not think that the 2nd option is the right way!

So in my opinion it will help him

1) to have the same picture being upright and being down in his set position

2) to perceive the correct picture

To get a correct picture in his stance he has to move his dominant eye (right eye) closer to the line of aim- and move his head to the left.
Like this his picture will change and will look the same as when he would aim with his non dominant eye closed.

He should do this during his stance and best when being down too. (1-2-3mm will change the world when being down)
Closing his non dominant eye while being down will show him his alignment across the line then too, when he is off!

You can do a little test for yourself:

Stretch one arm and point to a spot at the wall having a pencil vertically in your hand- holding the pencil in between your both eyes and having both eyes open.
Focus on lookin with both eyes and it may happen that you seem to see two penils. Then close your non dominant eye and see how the position of the pencil moves.
It will move more when you close your dominant eye and in the oposite direction!In case you are right eye dominant the pencil will move to the left in case you are left eye dominant it will move to the right.

Now let your both eyes open and move your head to left: In case you are right eye dominant, the pencil will move to the right in case you are left eye dominant it will move to the right as well!!! The same happens when you close the left/eye.

Now tilt your head like he does in his set position after having moved your head to the left a bit (tilt your head in away that your left ear/eye his higher then your right ear/eye) and keep one eye closed (whichone ever because if you only look with one eye this ey is always dominant )

The tilting of the head brings your pencil back to to the left - the more you tilt your head the bigger is this effect which shows him his wrong picture!

As he is used to have his head tilted like this it will take a long long time to correct this-so the second possibility is to move his head just a bit more to the left to correct his picture!

Maybe he will try it - would be happy when it helps!

Ekkes



Ekkes

 

[justadub]

Sure.
Just some last words.
I believe him to be right eye dominant if he says so. I can not have a look through his eyes. Giving personal lessons I have a tool to find out which eye is dominant (CD and another one) i think he will know which one is his master eye.

Oakie is not consciously aware of aligning across the line of aim from right (butt of his cue) to left (tip of his cue) slightly. If he did he would adjust. He is aware of it when he watches his videos but not in the moment when he is playing. In this moment it just looks "right" to him.

When we sight a straight shot we unconsciously aim at the target. The target is the pocket.

Now to get rid of this wrong picture that looks right to him now, he has to change something - right?
If he will not change anything the results will stay the same or he has to consciously sight in a way looks wrong to him to get better results-I do not think that the 2nd option is the right way!

So in my opinion it will help him

1) to have the same picture being upright and being down in his set position

2) to perceive the correct picture

To get a correct picture in his stance he has to move his dominant eye (right eye) closer to the line of aim- and move his head to the left.
Like this his picture will change and will look the same as when he would aim with his non dominant eye closed.

He should do this during his stance and best when being down too. (1-2-3mm will change the world when being down)
Closing his non dominant eye while being down will show him his alignment across the line then too, when he is off!

You can do a little test for yourself:

Stretch one arm and point to a spot at the wall having a pencil vertically in your hand- holding the pencil in between your both eyes and having both eyes open.
Focus on lookin with both eyes and it may happen that you seem to see two penils. Then close your non dominant eye and see how the position of the pencil moves.
It will move more when you close your dominant eye and in the oposite direction!In case you are right eye dominant the pencil will move to the left in case you are left eye dominant it will move to the right.

Now let your both eyes open and move your head to left: In case you are right eye dominant, the pencil will move to the right in case you are left eye dominant it will move to the right as well!!! The same happens when you close the left/eye.

Now tilt your head like he does in his set position after having moved your head to the left a bit (tilt your head in away that your left ear/eye his higher then your right ear/eye) and keep one eye closed (whichone ever because if you only look with one eye this ey is always dominant )

The tilting of the head brings your pencil back to to the left - the more you tilt your head the bigger is this effect which shows him his wrong picture!

As he is used to have his head tilted like this it will take a long long time to correct this-so the second possibility is to move his head just a bit more to the left to correct his picture!

Maybe he will try it - would be happy when it helps!

Ekkes



Ekkes

I don't want to derail Ken's thread (which I'm really enjoying, it's been very illuminating, and enjoyable to follow...) but I have some questions regarding the "dominant eye" stuff. I will start another thread to ask these questions, hopefully some of you will help me understand it better.

Best of luck with this Ken. Again, this thread is great.

 

[Okie]

Sure.
Just some last words.
I believe him to be right eye dominant if he says so. I can not have a look through his eyes. Giving personal lessons I have a tool to find out which eye is dominant (CD and another one) i think he will know which one is his master eye.

Oakie is not consciously aware of aligning across the line of aim from right (butt of his cue) to left (tip of his cue) slightly. If he did he would adjust. He is aware of it when he watches his videos but not in the moment when he is playing. In this moment it just looks "right" to him.

When we sight a straight shot we unconsciously aim at the target. The target is the pocket.

Now to get rid of this wrong picture that looks right to him now, he has to change something - right?
If he will not change anything the results will stay the same or he has to consciously sight in a way looks wrong to him to get better results-I do not think that the 2nd option is the right way!

So in my opinion it will help him

1) to have the same picture being upright and being down in his set position

2) to perceive the correct picture

To get a correct picture in his stance he has to move his dominant eye (right eye) closer to the line of aim- and move his head to the left.
Like this his picture will change and will look the same as when he would aim with his non dominant eye closed.

He should do this during his stance and best when being down too. (1-2-3mm will change the world when being down)
Closing his non dominant eye while being down will show him his alignment across the line then too, when he is off!

You can do a little test for yourself:

Stretch one arm and point to a spot at the wall having a pencil vertically in your hand- holding the pencil in between your both eyes and having both eyes open.
Focus on lookin with both eyes and it may happen that you seem to see two penils. Then close your non dominant eye and see how the position of the pencil moves.
It will move more when you close your dominant eye and in the oposite direction!In case you are right eye dominant the pencil will move to the left in case you are left eye dominant it will move to the right.

Now let your both eyes open and move your head to left: In case you are right eye dominant, the pencil will move to the right in case you are left eye dominant it will move to the right as well!!! The same happens when you close the left/eye.

Now tilt your head like he does in his set position after having moved your head to the left a bit (tilt your head in away that your left ear/eye his higher then your right ear/eye) and keep one eye closed (whichone ever because if you only look with one eye this ey is always dominant )

The tilting of the head brings your pencil back to to the left - the more you tilt your head the bigger is this effect which shows him his wrong picture!

As he is used to have his head tilted like this it will take a long long time to correct this-so the second possibility is to move his head just a bit more to the left to correct his picture!

Maybe he will try it - would be happy when it helps!

Ekkes



Ekkes

I will definitely change! When teaching someone golf I tell them that I know they are not purposely swinging incorrectly. They are swinging in a fashion which they consider to be correct but isn't. So in order to improve we must do something which doesn't feel right. The trick is doing it correctly while not feeling right....sounds confusing but my point is that I agree 100% with you Ekkes!

I still haven't read your pdf. I spent 33 hours at the pool hall this weekend and my mind is wiped out. So for today it will be my normal practice session and league tonight.

I would like to move to the right more in my initial position behind the shot as I start my PSR. I have seen it and haven't figured out how to efficiently keep my right foot on the aim line AND my vision center on the aim line as well. I have to lean to the right in order to make this happen. When I lean I tilt my head slightly....just like when I am down on the shot.

CJ wrote a while ago about keeping the shot in front of yourself (this was before TOI). I tried to move my whole body to the right (placing my vision center on the aim line and right foot right of the aiming line) but now when I go down my hips do not allow my stick to get on the aiming line.

So....

Everyone agrees the right foot should be somewhere on the aiming line. Then the logical conclusion would be that at the initial address we have to lean to place our vision center on the aiming line with the right foot. It physically hurts my neck doing this over and over.

I may have an answer to my own question.....

I am/was a golfer. I stand with my feet apart like a golf stance as I line up. This moves my head further to the left than if I stood with my feet together. Hmmm...

Enough rambling from the student...

Thank you all for your input! I am glad others are enjoying this thread as well!

Ken

p.s. I hope my post is coherent. I am wiped out from this weekend!

 

[ENGLISH!]

Ken,

I think you may have found some help by standing with your feet closer together, when lining it up.

It's almost like when playing golf, standing tall on the shoot line & then walking into it to the side, but with pool you will be able to keep your sight on the line as you step straight into it.

Good Luck with it,
Rick

 

[Okie]

I tried something this morning which felt good. I wasn't at a pool table so we'll see tonight if it is good or not.

I set my eyes on a line then moved my right foot underneath my head. Seemed to work...

To those who recommended trying the one eye closed trick to improve perception... I would have to say that it has helped. Closing the left eye while down shows me that I am aimed a bit to far to the left. Going down with the left eye closed helps me drop into a better position.

Now I am going to tackle Ekkes PDF and "SEE" what it holds for me!

Ken

 

[One Pocket John]

I tried something this morning which felt good. I wasn't at a pool table so we'll see tonight if it is good or not.

I set my eyes on a line then moved my right foot underneath my head. Seemed to work...

To those who recommended trying the one eye closed trick to improve perception... I would have to say that it has helped. Closing the left eye while down shows me that I am aimed a bit to far to the left. Going down with the left eye closed helps me drop into a better position.

Now I am going to tackle Ekkes PDF and "SEE" what it holds for me!

Ken

Good going Ken.

Assuming your are right eye dominant, when you get down in the shooting position and close your left eye the stick should be in line with the shot. If not and it moved just a hair you will need to adjust your stance to get the cue and shot lined up.

Now while still in the shooting position (as determined by your right eye) and you close your right eye and look down the shot line and the cue is lined up with the shot then that would suggest that you may be left eye dominant.

I'm right eye dominant. In the shooting position, if I close my left eye and the shot line is a little off I know I didn't get into my stance properly.

Stay with it. :smile:

John

 

[ENGLISH!]

Wait.

Ken your coming to New Orleans next week so we can play before you get this suff figured out, right?:wink:

 

[Okie]

Wait.

Ken your coming to New Orleans next week so we can play before you get this suff figured out, right?:wink:

I played better a year ago before I started studying this stuff!

But in time my friend....in time

Ken

 

[Okie]

@Oakie and anyone who is interested in a professional analysis:


Here is a link to a pdf that I uploaded for you, where I analised in detail your approach and your stroke Oakie.

http://pdfcast.org/pdf/analysis-of-okie-s-approach-and-stroke

Just click on the link. A page opens-now scroll down until you can see the preview of the pdf file. Now you can read the file online, load it down or open the file.

I see that you are willing to train! Perfect training makes perfect!
Give it a try and you will improve- I am sure.

Best from beyond the pond!

Ekkes

I finally got to this. Thank you again Ekkes!

I was better tonight on the items you pointed out in the pdf. I did this by setting my feet together and under my eyes after setting my eyes as correctly as I could.

I still need lots of work and time but I am hopeful!

Thanks again for all the time everyone has given me on this thread!!

Ken

 

[Okie]

The Eyes Have It

Last night I built my own version of the Sight Right tool (out of my son's legos) and went to dropping in. I came away with more questions than answers.

I put a cue ball and an object ball on my normal straight in shot spots and placed the lego tool between the two balls. Since I look at the object ball as I drop in I do not consciously see the tool or the cue ball. I have done this test before with Gordy and found that once down if I shut my left eye it appears that I am lined up about 1/16" to the left of the line. It dawned on me last night to shut my right eye last night and I noticed that with the left eye open it appeared I was offline by about the same amount but aimed to the right. Now this makes sense as most of the time the stick is right between my eyes in my set position.

The balls appear to be in perfect line sighting the way I do. So I tried watching the placement of the stick last night. I would say I am decent at being consistent but no where near perfect. And when setup incorrectly I tend to get that swipe/swoop stroke going trying to compensate.

Sooo....

I must tend to drop in without aligning the stick. I line up my eyes and fire when ready. I tried lining up the stick some last night but when I look at it I cannot focus clearly on a single stick....I see two shafts.

The goal is to consistently drop in with the stick aligned properly. I can deal with it looking weird if that is what it takes. But is there a good way to adjust my process and have it look right?

Or maybe my real question is "what is more important....seeing it straight or placing the dominant eye over the shaft?".

Or maybe I should just hush up and shoot! I know when I threw the balls out last night my tempo was terrible and I didn't take near the time with each shot I had when using the pocket reducers. That will be my next hill to climb...rebuild my focus during rack running time.

Ken

 

[FranCrimi]

Ken, you're not the only pool player who has ever encountered these issues. Many of us have at one time or another in our journeys in becoming better players.

I remember when I thought I would never figure out how to get position on the next shot. I thought it was something so advanced that I would never figure it out.

One important thing I learned is that you can't force the learning process. You can encourage it, but you can't, and shouldn't force it. If you can't figure out what you should do next, then take a break from trying to figure it out. Then try again after you've cleared your head. Just don't try to figure it all out at once; and remember to make the journey your journey and not what someone else wants you to do.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Fran,

I think that is very good advice from a player's perspective that has traveled the 'roads' to a destination..

Best Regards to You &

 

[One Pocket John]

Last night I built my own version of the Sight Right tool (out of my son's legos) and went to dropping in. I came away with more questions than answers.

I put a cue ball and an object ball on my normal straight in shot spots and placed the lego tool between the two balls. Since I look at the object ball as I drop in I do not consciously see the tool or the cue ball. I have done this test before with Gordy and found that once down if I shut my left eye it appears that I am lined up about 1/16" to the left of the line. It dawned on me last night to shut my right eye last night and I noticed that with the left eye open it appeared I was offline by about the same amount but aimed to the right. Now this makes sense as most of the time the stick is right between my eyes in my set position.

The balls appear to be in perfect line sighting the way I do. So I tried watching the placement of the stick last night. I would say I am decent at being consistent but no where near perfect. And when setup incorrectly I tend to get that swipe/swoop stroke going trying to compensate.

Sooo....

I must tend to drop in without aligning the stick. I line up my eyes and fire when ready. I tried lining up the stick some last night but when I look at it I cannot focus clearly on a single stick....I see two shafts.

Your kidding.....right? I only see 2 shafts after a few beers.

The goal is to consistently drop in with the stick aligned properly. I can deal with it looking weird if that is what it takes. But is there a good way to adjust my process and have it look right?

Or maybe my real question is "what is more important....seeing it straight or placing the dominant eye over the shaft?".

Your dominant eye will guide the cue. Don't force the cue under your eye.
Do you have a mirror that you can set up on the table rail so that when you line up naturally you can see where under your face the cue is lining up?

Or maybe I should just hush up and shoot! I know when I threw the balls out last night my tempo was terrible and I didn't take near the time with each shot I had when using the pocket reducers. That will be my next hill to climb...rebuild my focus during rack running time.

Ken

Try the mirror, it may answer all of your questions.

Thanks for posting Ken. And yeah, Frans right........as always. You cant force learning it takes to long to learn that way. :smile:

John

 

[theUBC]

Hey Ken

It has to look right to you!

When you are down looking from cue ball to this lego tool close your non dominant eye (your left eye) and move your head to the left until you perceive CB lego and OB on a straight line!

When you keep your head tilted like you naturally do, the perfect position of your cue stick for you will probably be perfectly centered under your nose and the right part of your chin will touch your shaft. This should give you averyclose to correct picture- do fine adjustments by moving your head a mm or two to the right or left ( probably to the left) while not moving your cue until you perceive all 3 objects (CB/lego/OB) on a straight line.

Like I told you: Because of having your head tilted it will not look right to you and will not be right to have your right eye over the cue in your set position!

But try to position your Right eye more or even perfectly on the line of aim ( in case you do not tilt your head like in your set postion) in your stance by moving your head/body/ feet more to the left (I talk about ca. 3 cm) and then just drop down naturally as you are used to and the line will still look straight to you when the cue touches the right part of your chin and perfectly under your nose tip in your set position.

How to work on that in the most effective way?

Best is to put a laser on the table spotting a line on the table pointing across the table and to stick one reinforcement ring for the CB on the cloth and a second one for the OB and then install your lego right on the laser line somewhere in between CB and OB.

Now you stick 3 reinforcement rings ca. 2 cm left to the laser line and 3 rings 2cm right to the laser line in front of your cue ball (in direction to you) in a way that it looks like a lighted landing strip for an air plane.
Like this you create a landing strip for your cue butt when you adress the balls. Now take the laser away and spot CB/lego /and OB.

Stand behind the balls, step in and drop into your set position.

Check the alignment of your cue when you have dropped down by just leaving out your cue and laying it on the table when you are in your set position without looking at the " landing strip" When your cue is layin on the table check the alignment of your cue by looking on that landing strip to the left and right of your cue butt (the butt should be laying centered on that landing strip of reinforcement rings) and adjust the position of your feet until you are able to drop down correctly.

Just work on that, having both balls and lego tool spotted on that line for 10-20 times without shooting.

Just drop down and adjust your eyes and foot/feet in your stance and your step in with your front foot too until anything is aligned perfectly in your set position.

Videotape yourself doing this and write down what you observe and then try to see which adjustments you need to step in and drop down correctly!

Your absolutely correct when you say
that your goal has to drop down being aligned perfectly. That's the key!

Ekkes

 

[Okie]

Ken, you're not the only pool player who has ever encountered these issues. Many of us have at one time or another in our journeys in becoming better players.

I remember when I thought I would never figure out how to get position on the next shot. I thought it was something so advanced that I would never figure it out.

One important thing I learned is that you can't force the learning process. You can encourage it, but you can't, and shouldn't force it. If you can't figure out what you should do next, then take a break from trying to figure it out. Then try again after you've cleared your head. Just don't try to figure it all out at once; and remember to make the journey your journey and not what someone else wants you to do.

Good advice! The blue there would describe my journey in golf. It was one of the reasons I quit...once I realized golf wasn't what I loved....I was just good at it.

Thanks everyone for all the support!

I think it is time for some radio silence and hard work.

Thanks again!!

Ken

 

[theUBC]

One more tip:
Try to have your back hand on the line of aim right under your right eye in your stance. NOT to much to the right of your body like now!

Like this you can just drop down without thinking too much about aligning correctly!

Ekkes

 

[theUBC]

Having your back hand on the line of aim only helps, when you have your right eye on the line of aim in your stance- which means that you have to position your body and head more to the left! ;-)
Ekkes