Looking to improve

Yes very accurate to what I’m asking.
I'll make a few suggestions, for what they're worth.

Ist of all, while 14.1 or 3 Cushion billiards are both great games about all they'd do right now is frustrate and confuse you.
I've often recommended both in the past as a mechanism for improving but it's almost always been for mid range B players who've been stuck at that level for awhile. I'm guessing you're not at that level yet.


Your problem is stroke related so it makes sense to start there. Without seeing you play it's hard to be specific but you more than likely have a combination of problems. Whatever they might be they're causing what is, in essence, a timing issue. I'm willing to bet there's a bunch of things you're doing that are in someway or another combining to wreak havoc on your timing. I'm not going to start listing them but it's important to identify what they are and try to correct them.

What the overwhelming majority of pool players do is continuously practice and try to improve by getting better at what they're doing while not realizing what they're doing is what's holding them back. The path forward is not more refinement but change.

You're most certainly going to have to change what you're doing. That's obvious, but how? I'll list some things you can try that are free and if that doesn't work you may need to find an instructor. While I'm not a fan you mentioned something about Sharivari and that probably could help or at least not hurt. You also mentioned friends showing you things and that could potentially hurt.

1) If you haven't seen this you need to. Watch all 3 parts.
2) Those guys you've seen who move the CB effortlessly? They're the ones to talk to. Chances are good they can see any problems you have. Pick a slow time they're around and buy a couple drinks and say heh could you take a look at what I'm doing. Most
will be happy to help.
3) We all watch videos but what exactly do you watch. It's nice to see great shots and great position but also spend time scrutinizing the things which allow them to do what they do so well.
Watch the care with which they address the CB, the position of the grip hand and the smoothness
of the last backstroke and the transition forward.

Start with that and see where you get. If you find a decent mentor and put some time and effort in you should see drastic improvement.

You could also put up a video in the Ask the instructors forum and possibly get more specific feedback. Good Luck
 
You also mentioned friends showing you things and that could potentially hurt.
So on this, your saying not everything they say might be correct, even though they are strong A players? So what I need is an instructor who can help develop my stroke?
 
I had problems of following though the cue ball as well for along time. But i watched the mark wilson video that someone mentioned in another post in the past and i gotta say it certainly helped me stroking through the cue ball. Cheers on that.
 
To reiterate if not from this thread, any other:
Going through the ball just means stroking past the standing location of the ball. This habit as well as optimal stroke dynamics can be developed by letting the weight of the stick propel the ball. No particular effort required other than getting the stick to move toward the ball. Most of your shots will be in the zone of whatever boing you feel at the grip hand. Try not to (I'm tempted to say never but that might be too nazi for a pool drill) try not to compromise this "light" touch for stroke accuracy. Stroke linearity should be dealt with independently to allow focus on specific dynamics. Obviously, linearity is the major concern but of equal importance, minimal tension.
 
The amount of stroke one puts on the CB is, in effect, the power AND exactly where you make contact with the CB.
And don't forget knowing what is actually possible with a given shot...I think players often try to execute things that can't actually be done.

For instance, don't think you can cut a ball with a stop shot.
 
Yes very accurate to what I’m asking.
As far as getting more action on a given shot, imo, it is a function of speed and accuracy of hit.

The guys you see manipulating the cb don't just shoot the ball in the hole, they shoot the ball into the hole in a specific manner with respect to speed and the side of the pocket they're using. Side spin and CIT also factor into what happens.
 
Questions to answer to help you improve:

Do you have a process to decide what you want to do with each shot before you get down?
Do you have a process to approach each shot?
Do you have a process to execute each shot?
Do you have a feedback mechanism to evaluate each shot?
When you miss is it a cuing error, a cue stick pointing error, or table factors?
Is your bridge weak and moving?
Do you have a consistent eye pattern?
Does your head move?
Do you tighten your grip when you hit the cue ball?
Do you plan patterns coming down the line or across the line?
Have you done a video analysis of your swing?

The answers to these questions will put you on the right road to improvement.
Please save yourself a lot of money, time and frustration and get a hold of Scott Lee.
 
So on this, your saying not everything they say might be correct, even though they are strong A players? So what I need is an instructor who can help develop my stroke?
That's not exactly what I suggested. I mentioned 3 things you might try before going out and paying for instruction. As far as listening to friends advice, I said it had the "potential" to hurt, not that it necessarily would. But it could, I've seen it happen quite often. All A players are not created equal. Some shoot great but don't have the capacity to accurately convey that to others.

One very difficult thing here is without seeing you shoot it's very hard to be specific about what you may or may not be doing wrong.
You asked a question and I thought I knew what you were looking for but just to make sure I asked a question and you confirmed my original thought. Which gives me a guideline to try and help. Unfortunately though, I can only generalize. One additional question I would have is if you're there in person with people helping you, then if these people were helping you, you wouldn't have come on here and asked the question you did. They would have already answered it.

One thing I didn't mention is get someone to take some video of you shooting just for your own use. Watch Mark Wilson's videos and see how you differ. It's simple, doesn't cost anything and might change your perspective

As some have said there's no substitute for in person learning. I didn't mean to discourage you from listening to people you know
but just be careful with that. When someone tells you something ask questions not just about the how but the why. Ok, you're telling me do this, but why, what are the principles behind it. Each little aspect of pool can, in most cases, be broken down into a bunch of subtleties and variations. If someone can't supply much detail about why something works in a certain way then you might look elsewhere.

Black-Balled's statement " As far as getting more action on a given shot, imo, it is a function of speed and accuracy of hit." tells you what constitutes how people can do what you want to do but it doesn't help you to know what's preventing you from achieving it.

It could be something simple or you could have a number of issues. It's impossible to know without watching you.

I always advise people to try some stuff on their own before looking for formal instruction. For one thing it's quite expensive and another is it's hit or miss whether it will help.
 
If you want more action on the ball, learn to hit it further off-center. Also realize that the harder you hit the ball, the tougher it is to hit it accurately. With modern tables and cloths, there is rarely any reason to hit the ball hard. This next video is on a match snooker table with EXTREMELY fast cloth, but it's worth a watch. Shaun Murphy, in my humble opinion, has the best stroke of any of the active players in pro snooker. Watch how he pulls the cue back slowly and slowly accellerates, making sure that the cue does not waiver away from his intended hit point on the ball. Most amateurs pull their cues back too fast, and they don't accellerate smoothly, causing them to get inaccurate hits:
 
This is the best stroke there has ever been, at least in the televised era. Stephen lee. He cheated by fixing matches and got banned. It's too bad there is not much matchplay video with him in his prime, as most videos of him are power stroke compilations. The stroke quality is outstanding for the most part. In matchplay, his strokes were so silky smooth that you could hardly hear the strikes and he got all kinds of crazy action on the ball. I don't know if there will ever be anyone like him again. If you study this stroke, you'll see what a top quality stroke really looks like. Notice how slowly he pulls back, hesitates, then comes slowly forward. His muscles don't jerk, they just allow the cue to do the work and the opening and closing of the hand is timed like a swiss watch. If you try to copy this, start out on very slow shots, I suggest draw shots because the feedback is immidiate. Go as low as you can without miscueing on slow, short shots. Work only on the stroke and the cueball hit. Slowly ramp up the speed, without changing the slow pull back and accelleration. It will take some time to get the hang of it, but you won't be sorry, because if you stick with it, people are going to ask you what kind of miracle cue/tip you're using. I forgot to mention that you need to keep your body completely still and especially your bridgehand, which should act like a bipod on a gun.
 
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And don't forget knowing what is actually possible with a given shot...I think players often try to execute things that can't actually be done.

For instance, don't think you can cut a ball with a stop shot.
One of the things I do before executing a drag/stun/draw shot is to determine the zone (length on the cloth) where backspin transitions to front spin.
Then a drag shot has this zone end just before contact,
A stun has this zone centered on the contact,
And a draw shot has the zone beyond the point of contact.

There is a similar zone for top spin.......

Knowing the actual physics........there is a similar zone associated with side spin, also. It is in this zone that the CB takes on its curve. The zone begins when there is enough friction between CB and cloth so that the center of rotation transitions from CoM of the CB to where the center of rotation is aligned with the point of contact on the cloth. The math describing this is (let us say) both ugly and beautiful at the same time. But if you can visualize the plane of rotation moving down from the point of cue-tip contact to the point of CB contact with the cloth, it is easy to get a touchy feely relationship to the process, and ignore the math.
 
I'm not sure if this is a question for the ask an instructor area or not. But here's some background about me. I have been playing pool for around 6-7 years and I feel I have improved very slowly, but I also don't put in much time at all into practice, I mostly go out to hang out with my friends. Well, last weekend I went to my biggest tournament and could not perform under the pressure, but it got me really wanting to get better and practice more.

So my question that I just can't seem to understand is, the difference in 'power' and 'putting more stroke on a ball' I struggle to understand how you can stroke through the ball more without hitting it harder and still complete a stroke through the ball without decelerating. I'm also having issues stroking completely through the ball every time, is this just something I just need to practice?

My second question is should I try to find an instructor or look to get a good DVD set? Who are some good instructors in Utah or what is a really good DVD set to help me learn drills and how to improve, or how about an online instructor like Sharivari? I subscribe to his patreon and he offers to send him a 10 minute video and he'll give you drills to improve. I just want to get better.
What State do you live in? This will help to find a certified instructor for you.

randyg
 
What State do you live in? This will help to find a certified instructor for you.

randyg
I live in Utah. I have seen a couple of people that are certified as instructors but I know about how they play and I'm not impressed. I know how they play doesn't matter to how they instruct, but I'd be concerned paying money unless they were highly praised.
 
One thing I didn't mention is get someone to take some video of you shooting just for your own use. Watch Mark Wilson's videos and see how you differ. It's simple, doesn't cost anything and might change your perspective
I watched the first two parts and the difference in stroke speed is mind blowing to me and how precise professionals are hitting the ball.
 
You and several others touched on the key. Contacting the cue ball exactly where you intend to. If you can do this, without having to look at cue ball last, your game will take a huge leap.
 
I watched Mark Wilson’s videos at the tournament, and man what a difference just slowing down your aiming and doing the ‘ladies and gentlemen’ for timing makes.
 
Dr. Dave has so much good info on his website.

Practice word is Practice.

Practice what you do not do well.
 
I watched Mark Wilson’s videos at the tournament, and man what a difference just slowing down your aiming and doing the ‘ladies and gentlemen’ for timing makes.
Thats what i found as well, the timing makes a huge difference for me.
 
A few things. Best DVD's kinda got lost but I like Li'l Joe's at Pool IQ.net Note that is net, not com. The first two are more like drills, the third is an edited version of a three day live lesson, actually two DVD's in a set. Unless you find a good local instructor that can help you tune little things as you go, a coach as much as instructor, get set up to do video. Doesn't have to be fancy but being able to see what you do is often a big help. What a person thinks they do and what they do are often two different things regardless of level of play. Video Analysis is or was available. David Sapolis, Blackjack on here, is an excellent instructor that offered video analysis very reasonably last I knew. A good guy I recommend highly if he is still teaching. You can often see errors on your own too.

The critical part of the stroke is the final forward motion. There are a lot of ways to get to that though. Some like a slight pause, some a protracted one, some a smooth transition from back motion to forward with no perceptible pause, some use an elliptical stroke that has no pause. It doesn't matter at all which you use. The important thing is that there is no jerk when you start forward. Get very focused on a slow start forward for the first couple of inches until that is in your DNA!

Easier said than done but with practice it gets easier: Do your planning and alignment standing, once down on the shot try to avoid any thought at all. With practice you may be able to run entire racks as one continuous motion, no thoughts in words.

Hard to make someone understand the importance of a quiet mind and a quiet body. Those that understand are usually already there. Watch the players in any cue sport that seem to flow around the table and move very smoothly including their stroke. The effortless power comes from an accelerating stroke into the cue ball. Try to accelerate through the cue ball. That isn't technically possible but you can try to. When you hit the cue ball exactly where you plan to and have a smooth stroke good things happen. We usually aim with the middle of the tip but rarely hit the cue ball with the middle of the tip. Because of that you can struggle to get as far out on the cue ball as you need to or can try to hit further out than possible without a miscue. I think about halfway between center and edge is as far out as you can usually hit without a miscue. That is actual contact point, not what you are looking at from behind the cue. Too, front hand, back hand, and parallel english all allow a slightly different contact point. However, I have never seen it proven one was better than the other, the direction of force is a factor not usually discussed.

A simple stroke drill is to put a ball about four to six inches in front of the cue ball. When practicing your stroke, ignore the cue ball and try to hit the ball in front with your cue tip. Impossible of course but you will power through the cue ball nicely.

Pool has all the information to become a great player on the internet for free. Both on this site and on youtube. Unfortunately, lots of bad information too and there is little to tell you which is which. Find one pretty conventional path for starters and stay with it. Better to take as much advice as possible from one source or you may be trying to do things that don't work well together.

The mental game can be learned many places but there is a certain amount of experience required to perform under pressure. Some have a great deal of trouble performing under pressure, others improve their performance under pressure. Part of that is purely what you tell yourself. Having competed at many things I have listened to countless people complaining about things that don't suit them. Never stay around these people long, their pessimism is contagious! Far better to say to yourself that you love tough conditions because you handle them better than many competitors. I almost always move up in a field when conditions are bad because I don't beat myself up over bad conditions. Let others do that to themselves.

Try to find a good local mentor. Don't disagree with them even though they won't be 100% correct. Learning a very good way and then fine tuning can be more important than seeking perfection from a long ways out. Generally best to move up through the steps from crawling to flying than going from sitting in the nest to flying. Always thought it sucked to be a nestling bird, especially of the types that live in high places. How do you learn to fly? A kick in the ass and wish you luck! A lot of nestlings don't make it past that point. Fortunately there are easier learning routes for humans.

Enough of a book for one post. Oh, one more thing to toss out, don't forget to have fun! A weakness of mine, I get so wrapped up in competing I sometimes forget I am there because I want to be and to enjoy myself. I do have to say it is more fun to win than to lose though.

Hu
 
A few things. Best DVD's kinda got lost but I like Li'l Joe's at Pool IQ.net Note that is net, not com. The first two are more like drills, the third is an edited version of a three day live lesson, actually two DVD's in a set. Unless you find a good local instructor that can help you tune little things as you go, a coach as much as instructor, get set up to do video. Doesn't have to be fancy but being able to see what you do is often a big help. What a person thinks they do and what they do are often two different things regardless of level of play. Video Analysis is or was available. David Sapolis, Blackjack on here, is an excellent instructor that offered video analysis very reasonably last I knew. A good guy I recommend highly if he is still teaching. You can often see errors on your own too.

The critical part of the stroke is the final forward motion. There are a lot of ways to get to that though. Some like a slight pause, some a protracted one, some a smooth transition from back motion to forward with no perceptible pause, some use an elliptical stroke that has no pause. It doesn't matter at all which you use. The important thing is that there is no jerk when you start forward. Get very focused on a slow start forward for the first couple of inches until that is in your DNA!

Easier said than done but with practice it gets easier: Do your planning and alignment standing, once down on the shot try to avoid any thought at all. With practice you may be able to run entire racks as one continuous motion, no thoughts in words.

Hard to make someone understand the importance of a quiet mind and a quiet body. Those that understand are usually already there. Watch the players in any cue sport that seem to flow around the table and move very smoothly including their stroke. The effortless power comes from an accelerating stroke into the cue ball. Try to accelerate through the cue ball. That isn't technically possible but you can try to. When you hit the cue ball exactly where you plan to and have a smooth stroke good things happen. We usually aim with the middle of the tip but rarely hit the cue ball with the middle of the tip. Because of that you can struggle to get as far out on the cue ball as you need to or can try to hit further out than possible without a miscue. I think about halfway between center and edge is as far out as you can usually hit without a miscue. That is actual contact point, not what you are looking at from behind the cue. Too, front hand, back hand, and parallel english all allow a slightly different contact point. However, I have never seen it proven one was better than the other, the direction of force is a factor not usually discussed.

A simple stroke drill is to put a ball about four to six inches in front of the cue ball. When practicing your stroke, ignore the cue ball and try to hit the ball in front with your cue tip. Impossible of course but you will power through the cue ball nicely.

Pool has all the information to become a great player on the internet for free. Both on this site and on youtube. Unfortunately, lots of bad information too and there is little to tell you which is which. Find one pretty conventional path for starters and stay with it. Better to take as much advice as possible from one source or you may be trying to do things that don't work well together.

The mental game can be learned many places but there is a certain amount of experience required to perform under pressure. Some have a great deal of trouble performing under pressure, others improve their performance under pressure. Part of that is purely what you tell yourself. Having competed at many things I have listened to countless people complaining about things that don't suit them. Never stay around these people long, their pessimism is contagious! Far better to say to yourself that you love tough conditions because you handle them better than many competitors. I almost always move up in a field when conditions are bad because I don't beat myself up over bad conditions. Let others do that to themselves.

Try to find a good local mentor. Don't disagree with them even though they won't be 100% correct. Learning a very good way and then fine tuning can be more important than seeking perfection from a long ways out. Generally best to move up through the steps from crawling to flying than going from sitting in the nest to flying. Always thought it sucked to be a nestling bird, especially of the types that live in high places. How do you learn to fly? A kick in the ass and wish you luck! A lot of nestlings don't make it past that point. Fortunately there are easier learning routes for humans.

Enough of a book for one post. Oh, one more thing to toss out, don't forget to have fun! A weakness of mine, I get so wrapped up in competing I sometimes forget I am there because I want to be and to enjoy myself. I do have to say it is more fun to win than to lose though.

Hu
hu
this was a great post
i bolded what stood out to me
would love to take a lesson with you and then take you out to dinner and drinks on me.... (y) 😀
 
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