And people sit around and whine "why can't pool go anywhere". Well, stuff like this damn sure doesn't help. A good friend of mine once missed going to the next stage in PGA Qschool because he called a penalty on himself. To some people doing things right means more than it does to others i guess.
Loree Jon Snooze.............
- Thread starter garczar
- Start date
The tournament golf analogy is false because the players are not playing against each other - they are playing against the course, in parallel with each other. Competitors are not able to call penalties on competitors who are not in their group. That's a big part of the reason why Rule 1 in the USGA rulebook states:
It is literally Rule #1 in golf that you are required to call penalties on yourself.
As far as I know, there is no such rule in pool.
Match play golf is the closest analogue here, and in fact there are times when a player has no recourse for failing to fall a rightful penalty:
"A player can not wait to report a violation after the players have gone to the next tee either. That once happened in the Ryder Cup when Ballestoros noticed one of the American players had played the wrong ball in the alternate shot format. Ballestoros failed to do it when it occurred and therefore the claim was not allowed."
http://theaposition.com/jamesamcafee/golf/270/rules-different-for-match-play
Perhaps Barretta should have volunteered the information that she had fouled, but that contention seems far from clear cut.
There is a WAY outside shot that the foul just did not register to her. I've watched it few times and i still have a REAL hard time accepting that a player with her experience didn't see it. If she didn't, so be it. Still not going for it. She was looking directly at the hit and the rollout of the balls.
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That’s right. My apologies to LJ.
Sorry, but I do not think it is the responsibility of the shooter to call a foul on themselves- yes it is a noble act if one does that, but I personally do not expect my opponent to ever call a foul on themselves if I miss it. As long as they are not disputing a legit foul that I see as the opponent- I see no issue with a shooter waiting for an opponent or ref to call a foul. do baseball batters try to reverse a called ball by the umpire or reverse a safe call on the bases while running- NEVER? do pro tennis players call fouls on themselves for balls outside the lines- NEVER. why is Pool supposed to be different? Just my opinion. and yes, I have called fouls on myself- so I don't get blasted here by the "high and mighty" AZ members- but I would NEVER have that as an expectation of my opponent.
You're the sort of person that less scrupulous players would block off from the shot with their body. If you don't expect your opponent to call fouls on themselves, then you are opening yourself up wide to being cheated.
After all, isn't it your responsibility to catch your opponent moving balls apart with his pinkie?
You can't have it both ways. Players need to be completely honest over the table, or, we could just go wild west and let people spit in the chalk.
It's not a question of morals in my opinion, it's a question of stupidity and responsibility. I'm not going to sit back and let me opponent have ball in hand if they didnt see it. Especially if it is something like this. A tournament, action, or any other meaningful match.
Now if LJ would have asked her if it was a foul and Jenn said no then that's a problem in my opinion, unless Jenn legitimately thought it was good, which is something that cannot be proven. If I foul and someone doesn't see the foul then that's on them. If they ask me then of course, I will tell them it's ball in hand.
There are so many players that I look up to that would have handled it the same way. I'm talking great local short stops and some pros even. If you are not paying attention, you deserve to lose that way.
Here is another example. Let's say Jenn shot, fouled, knew it was a foul. Went back to her chair and wasn't looking at the table either, probably talking to her husband telling him how she ****ed up and LJ is gonna run out now. Before she turns back around LJ shoots without taking ball in hand. Is Jenn still wrong in this scenario? After the shot should she have picked up the cueball, gift wrapped it and had LJ sign for it saying she received it? I'm not saying that is what happened as Jenn stepped out of frame and more then likely that isn't what happened.
Even though you are in the chair you are still playing in the match and it is your responsibility to pay attention.
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If we ever meet, please remind of this. I have zero interest playing someone that I have to watch like a hawk.
The player chairs are practically lower than the table there, so it is easy for LJJ to have missed the hit.
Your stance though says a lot about your character that is for sure.
Exactly!!!!
Yeah I have zero interest in playing someone I have to remind to take ball in hand because they weren't paying attention.
You don't have to watch me like a hawk, I'm not a cheater. Watch the damn table like you are supposed to.
Door swings both ways Russ.
Ask me if I give a shit. Most of these holier then thou posters will never be in a situation even remotely like Jenn and will still contemplate it over their league match.
If you don't call fouls on yourself, you are absolutely a cheater, and no one will ever convince me different.
It's not cheating regardless of what you think. It's not written anywhere that I have to tell you anything about the match other then "Push" or "you're on two"
The other player should not be rewarded for their ignorance.
Here is a question... with everyone's infinite honesty here:
If you were ringside, would you have told LJ that Jenn fouled if you noticed it?
If you were ringside, would you have told LJ that Jenn fouled if you noticed it?
Another way to look at this...
If I KNOW you are a person that wil not call a foul on yourself, every time you play a ball where your body blocks my sightline, now, I HAVE to get up, squat down, and see thst you are not touching a ball..
It makes for a lot more stress during a match. The way I look at it, I will call EVERY foul on myself, because if I foul and don't get called on it, and win... What did I actually win? Best cheater award?
And for the record, I've been putting a lot of heat on pros at Derby, including having Scott Frost down 5-0, 6-0 in back to back One Pocket games last year, so I am a little more than a league player.
If the rules allow it, absolutely.. If her opponent won't do the right thing, I don't mind helping her do the right thing.
There's nothing in the "rules" that says you can't move the cue ball an inch as long as your opponent doesn't see it, either.
That's moronic reasoning.