Low Deflection Shaft for Beginner

[JoeyA]

I think you should try a low deflection shaft and a regular high deflection shaft.

Do the squirt test by placing the cue ball on the Head Spot and shooting at the Middle Foot Diamond, using two tips of side spin and the same medium-hard stroke.

Shoot the shot five times in a row with each shaft, noting where the cue ball hits the foot rail each time.

That may tell you all you need to know.

JoeyA

 

[Big Perm]

A beginner can't learn to "appreciate the game" with a low squirt cue?

pj
chgo

Nope it ruins them for life....it even carries over into their comprehension skills.....they join an online forum and try to make a point by pulling out a tiny portion of a quote instead of reading the entire post for overall meaning....it seems they attempt to take short-cuts in many facets.....

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Nope it ruins them for life....it even carries over into their comprehension skills.....they join an online forum and try to make a point by pulling out a tiny portion of a quote instead of reading the entire post for overall meaning....it seems they attempt to take short-cuts in many facets.....

Sorry, didn't realize I was talking to such a sensitive guy.

pj
chgo

 

[SK Custom Cues]

Sorry, didn't realize I was talking to such a sensitive guy.

pj
chgo

sorry, i'm gonna stay out of this......

 

[Big Perm]

Sorry, didn't realize I was talking to such a sensitive guy.

pj
chgo

I prefer the term delicate....like a flower :grin:

I come from the old school where you earn better equipment by progressing to the point you can appreciate it......a beginner can't appreciate an LD shaft because they have no idea what squirt is......at that point, they also don't use left or right....helped a beginner buddy of mine the other night with the concept of draw....it was a 20 minute lesson....he was a true beginner....

While it's likely a character flaw, I have a habit of not having a lot of respect for golfers that have $2k worth of clubs, but can't break 120.....or pool players with a $2k pool cue that can't make a ball.....as kids, these types were known as posers.....it's kinda like putting $200 spark plugs in an 88 Suzuki Samurai when a $2 spark plug would do the job....another term that comes to mind revolves around polishing a turd....

Just sayin....

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

I have both tried using a regular maple shaft and a LD shaft. I must say honestly that I shot better with the LD shaft. my accuracy and ball control was more precise. this statement is coming from a regular shaft user.

btw, I tried shooting with a colleague (novice at pool) of mine who uses an LD shaft 2 months ago. he was curious about my cue because he saw that I was hitting the ball differently and with a different speed and control. he never tried a regular shaft before so I willingly let him try mine. I did warn him though that the cue produces a wicked spin (deflection) on it so be careful on applying english on the cueball. after 1 game, he gave my cue back and commented that my cue "SUCKS". :grin::grin::grin:

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I prefer the term delicate....like a flower :grin:

LOL

pj
chgo

 

[horton129]

LD shafts

It's realy hard to resist the marketing, and the benefits of what is in your head when you play pool (if you think it makes you play better, it does). Predator is most likely the top comercial LD shaft, OB1 is also very popular these days. FOr the beginers predator also offers the Poison line of cues with LD shafts. I spent a lot of time with old timers who have tried everything under the sun and they still can beat people with God awful cues off the rack crooked and missing half a mushroomed flattened tip with no chalk. So the best advice is learn the truth. Buy a cue you like stay with it. regardless of regular or LD shaft. Spend your money one day when it does not matter to you if you drop $300 on a shaft (they really make no difference to your game if you are an average joe like 99.9% of us). Right now if you do care about the $300 as recomended wisely by an earlier poster, do start with lessons it's a much better investment.

 

[Dead Crab]

I am skeptical about the LD shaft offering any advantage to a beginner shooting off center.

There are two principal ways of getting off center:
1. Improper bridge placement
2. Backhand misalignment

Consider #2, which is basically unintentionally applied BHE.

For the beginner with a standard cue, they will probably bridge fairly close to the natural pivot point of the cue, and squirt will not be excessive.

For the beginner with the LD shaft, with the pivot point at 14", 21", or 40" (I have actually seen all of these pivot lengths claimed for LD shafts), they will be applying unintentional BHE with the pivot point several (or many) inches from the bridge. Based on what little I understand of the physics, this should induce high squirt. Unless, of course, the endmass of the LD shaft is so small that it will forgive even the worst alignment errors.

The burden of proof is on the manufacturers of the LD shafts to show that the increase in squirt caused by unintentional BHE remains smaller than that induced by small bridge deviations from pivot point with standard shafts.

If this cannot be shown, I do not accept that they are better for beginners.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I am skeptical about the LD shaft offering any advantage to a beginner shooting off center.

There are two principal ways of getting off center:
1. Improper bridge placement
2. Backhand misalignment

Consider #2, which is basically unintentionally applied BHE.

For the beginner with a standard cue, they will probably bridge fairly close to the natural pivot point of the cue, and squirt will not be excessive.

Squirt will be high since it's a high-squirt shaft, but bridging near the pivot point will compensate for it more accurately compared with a low-squirt cue (I think that's what you mean).

For the beginner with the LD shaft, with the pivot point at 14", 21", or 40" (I have actually seen all of these pivot lengths claimed for LD shafts), they will be applying unintentional BHE with the pivot point several (or many) inches from the bridge. Based on what little I understand of the physics, this should induce high squirt.

Squirt will be low since it's a low-squirt shaft, but bridging substantially forward of the pivot point will overcompensate compared with a high-squirt cue and cause the CB to go offline in the direction of the tip offset.

Unless, of course, the endmass of the LD shaft is so small that it will forgive even the worst alignment errors.

Low endmass is less forgiving of alignment errors because of the overcompensating effect described above.

The burden of proof is on the manufacturers of the LD shafts to show that the increase in squirt caused by unintentional BHE remains smaller than that induced by small bridge deviations from pivot point with standard shafts.

If this cannot be shown, I do not accept that they are better for beginners.

I get your point, but I'm not sure I agree. Swerve makes the "effective pivot point" move around so that automatic aim compensation for higher squirt isn't a given. Even if it was a given, I'm not sure that masking stroke errors with a cue that compensates for them is good for a beginner.

pj
chgo

 

[dr_dave]

Excellent points (from DeadCrab and PJ).

FYI, I have a good summary of these and other pros and cons of low-squirt cues (with links to related resources) here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/cue.html#low_squirt​

Regards,
Dave

Squirt will be high since it's a high-squirt shaft, but bridging near the pivot point will compensate for it more accurately than with a high-squirt cue (I think that's what you mean).



Squirt will be low since it's a low-squirt shaft, but bridging substantially forward of the pivot point will overcompensate compared with a high-squirt cue and cause the CB to go offline in the direction of the tip offset.



Low endmass is less forgiving of alignment errors because of the overcompensating effect described above.



I get your point, but I'm not sure I agree. Swerve makes the "effective pivot point" move around so that automatic aim compensation for higher squirt isn't a given. Even if it was a given, I'm not sure that masking stroke errors with a cue that compensates for them is good for a beginner.

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Excellent points (from DeadCrab and PJ).

FYI, I have a good summary of these and other pros and cons of low-squirt cues (with links to related resources) here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threa...tml#low_squirt
Regards,
Dave

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson
Squirt will be high since it's a high-squirt shaft, but bridging near the pivot point will compensate for it more accurately compared with a low-squirt cue (I think that's what you mean).



Squirt will be low since it's a low-squirt shaft, but bridging substantially forward of the pivot point will overcompensate compared with a high-squirt cue and cause the CB to go offline in the direction of the tip offset.



Low endmass is less forgiving of alignment errors because of the overcompensating effect described above.



I get your point, but I'm not sure I agree. Swerve makes the "effective pivot point" move around so that automatic aim compensation for higher squirt isn't a given. Even if it was a given, I'm not sure that masking stroke errors with a cue that compensates for them is good for a beginner.

pj
chgo

I noticed a typo and corrected it (here and in my original post).

pj
chgo

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

therefore an LD shaft is bad for English !

 

[conetip]

therefore an LD shaft is bad for English !

Spin on a cueball is more to do with stroke.That is why beginners have trouble making a draw or any shot that requires spin on the cueball.
Not the fact that it is a LD shaft.
I still think learning on a LD cue is the way to go.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

an LD shaft is bad for English

Nope. Myth.

(Unless you're joking, in which case I don't get it.)

pj
chgo

 

[Big Perm]

therefore an LD shaft is bad for English !

LOL, caught the funnae :grin:

Unless you were being serious and then I disagree too

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

LOL, caught the funnae :grin:

Unless you were being serious and then I disagree too

yup. was kidding. maybe you could explain it to PAT ! :grin::grin::grin:

 

[dr_dave]

therefore an LD shaft is bad for English !

Actually, an LD shaft can be good for English, but not much better than with a regular-squirt shaft (provided everything else is the same in the comparison); although, some people get deceived in to thinking a low-squirt cue applies less (or more) English because of how they might apply "tips of English," or if the shape of the tip is different, or if they just think the shaft is better (or worse). For more info, see:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/cue.html#spin​

Regards,
Dave