Low Deflection Shaft

[book collector]

The biggest difference I have found in the LD shaft I use { Pred Z2 }it is less forgiving if I don't play often.
I believe that mine does transfer more spin , at least a half diamond longer on a 3 rail kick with a tip of running english. Why , I have no idea.
it is possible I am putting more spin on unintentionally , but I have really tried to make sure I don't, yet the ball always seems to go longer.
Another big thing is how far you can get out on the edge of the ball without miscueing , because of the thinner tip.
Again , this could be because I am just more confident or see the center of the tips striking area better because it is thinner.
Again , I have spent time trying to override that possibility and came up with the same results.
I think everyone will just have to try the LD of their choice and see what their results are.
Money back minus restocking fee seems like a great deal .
Or try someone elses ?
I had a hard time getting used to mine and was about to throw it in the trash when a good player suggested I tighten down my bridge finger.
It made a world of difference.
I still sometimes steer the ball with that ultra tight bridge but I think that's because I just don't play enough any more to get used to it.
Good luck

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I hope I can help with this. I have the following things supporting my opinion:

I shot with a standard shaft for about 6-8 years. I tried out the original Predator 314's and didn't like them because the hit felt hollow and dead to me.

One day at the Super Billiards Expo, I hit with a Predator 314, and for some reason, whether this particular tip or whatever, I liked it, took the plunge, and never looked back.

I currently play with an Andy Gilbert cue. I have a 314-2 shaft that Andy made the joint for. I also have the original Gilbert shaft. I got the cue new with these two shafts.

I have never really played with the Andy Gilbert shaft, since I was already very used to the Predator. When I first got my cue, I played some of the best pool of my life for a stretch.

Sometimes I played around with the original Gilbert shaft, which has a medium height Triangle tip. OMG does this shaft hit good! It really feels a great deal better than the LD shafts I was using. The 314-2 shaft that Andy put the joint in is actually VERY close...but still not the same. Only problem is that I can't make a ball with it, since I have become so used to LD shafts.

I have since tried the OB Classic shaft. Mine came a bit oversized, and I took it down to about 12.7mm. In the process, I also smoothed out the taper, basically making it more like the very long pro taper of the Predator. This combination is quite awesome for me. The deflection is comparable to the 314-2, but the feel of the hit is somehow more solid. Oddly, the Predator has a firmer, crisper hit. But somehow I *feel* the cue ball more with the OB. I am using Kamui Black Soft tips. This is a really nice combo. Also, Andy uses .840" joint, so any off the shelf Predator or OB should fit fine.

I tried all the LD shafts I could. I would say that overall, with respect only to feel, the Mezz WD700 comes the closest in feel to a solid maple shaft. However, the deflection, while lower than a standard shaft, is considerably more than the Predator and OB. Same thing for the Tiger shaft.

Overall, my game is far better than it was before, but I was going to improve anyway lol! I play about low "A" speed, for whatever that is worth.

Hope this info helps you decide!

KMRUNOUT

 

[AlexandruM]

I'm using for a couple of weeks a Predator 314-2 shaft with 12.75 mm tip. With that shaft the cue ball travels much more than with my standard Joss shaft. The side spin is also much easy to do. If you use 2-3 cushions to get position, it's easy to do that with a LD shaft.
My follow and draw shots also are improving with that shaft.

In conclusion for 185 $ what I paid, I don't regret and I'm happy with it.

PS The are no magic shafts and cues, practice is the only way to really improve your game.

I didn't observe any difference in sound and feeling between 314-2 and Joss shaft.

 

[Razor]

Hello everyone I want some thoughts on "Low Deflection shafts". I currently own a Andy Gilbert cue and i thought about replacing the shaft with a low deflection shaft. I assume the pros use them for a reason. Is the increase in english control with vertical and horizontal spin? Just looking for some advice to see if replacing the shaft will compromise the feel of the cue in anyway. Is is worth it? never used a low deflection shaft.. any thoughts? thanks again.

Clarkie

What are you used to? How long have you been playing? All shafts produce cue-ball squirt (I think a LD shaft produces somewhere around 20-40% less squirt depending on the build ~ (the fact checkers can, and will correct me if I am wrong on that). I could recommend a LD shaft to any player just beginning, I suppose...

So, if you are already used to adjusting for swerve and cue-ball squirt and are proficient with whatever you are using, I would not recommend changing unless you have the patience to work out the difference in compensation. Like I said, all shafts produce squirt, so what is the difference in aiming 1" from your target and 3/4" of an inch from your target, when you are already confident in the 1" aim and the 3/4" aim away from contact is gonna be a guess until you are fully acclimated?

I have nothing against LD shafts, I have just hit too many balls with a traditional shaft that when I tried a LD, I shot two racks with it, could make my straight-ins, but was back to guessing like a beginner on all off-center hits and driving the balls into the rail. With practice, I could adjust, but couldn't rationalize the benefit (I was still aiming away from the actual intended contact point anyway, just less, and guessing). So if you still have to aim away from the contact point, what is the point? Is less any more accurate? Does your subconscious computer like less more? You still don't get to aim at the exact intended contact point with an off-center CB hit, LD shaft or not...

Anyway, I still have that LD shaft somewhere tucked away in a closet. I should sell it to someone who would appreciate it...I suppose I am just not smart enough to figure out the advantage. :grin-square:

John Schmidt did an interview on TAR (I think before he played Corey) where he talked about the adjustment period he had to go through switching to a LD shaft, and it eventually has paid off for him...

Just some thoughts. Good luck. Never hurts to try, you may love the hit and reduced CB squirt.

Peace.

~Razor

 

[West Point 1987]

John Schmidt did an interview on TAR (I think before he played Corey) where he talked about the adjustment period he had to go through switching to a LD shaft, and it eventually has paid off for him...

~Razor

IIRC, actually Schmidt indicated that he tried LD out, it took him forever to get used to it and then took forever for him to go back...so I'd say it didn't pay off for him.

 

[Razor]

IIRC, actually Schmidt indicated that he tried LD out, it took him forever to get used to it and then took forever for him to go back...so I'd say it didn't pay off for him.

You're probably right, I'm old and the memory is not perfect. At least I remembered him talking about it (I think)... :grin:

Thanks for the clarification.

~Razor

 

[SplicedPoints]

LD shaft don't give you more spin because it's LD. It's the the tip size (typically smaller than 13mm) and other factors such as ferrule and taper.

I have a 314 fat that is >13mm. It gives me less spin than a 13mm shaft, using the same type of tip.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

LD shaft don't give you more spin because it's LD. It's the the tip size (typically smaller than 13mm) and other factors such as ferrule and taper.

I have a 314 fat that is >13mm. It gives me less spin than a 13mm shaft, using the same type of tip.

The only thing that matters for how much spin you get is where you hit the CB (how far offcenter). If you hit the same spot on the CB, every cue produces the same amount of spin.

pj
chgo

 

[bender_lu]

i dont play atm with an LD shaft, but do you all use tons of side spin on every shot? yesterday i played for a couple of hours and i NEVER needed more than half to 1 tip of side english to get my position (9 and 10 ball).

keep your angles and you dont need much sidespin.

BUT im also planning purchasing an LD shaft in the near future... why? i want to try something new out and ive never seen an OB shaft here :grin: Plus the wood ferule looks cool, so maybe im giving it a try. i just fear that it might take the balance point to much to the buttend...

 

[dr_dave]

The only thing that matters for how much spin you get is where you hit the CB (how far offcenter). If you hit the same spot on the CB, every cue produces the same amount of spin.

Actually, technically speaking, there is a small difference is effective tip offset with shafts of different squirt (per TP B.7 - Effect of squirt on the amount of spin), but the effect is very small. However, practically speaking, I agree with you 100%. An LD shaft does not create more spin. For more info, see getting more spin with an LD shaft.

Regardless, there are some plausible explanations for why many people think they get more spin with a smaller-diameter and/or rounder tip. Here's a pertinent excerpt from my cue tip size and shape resource page:

The shaft size and tip shape can also influence how some people apply English if they use "tips" of English and/or an aim-and-pivot squirt compensation system (e.g., BHE). This might make some people think they are getting more or less English with different size and shape tips. For more info, see "Squirt - Part VI: tip shape" (BD, January, 2008).

Tip shape can also affect the results of squirt-testing machines that position the shaft and CB the same with each test. If the tip shape is different from one shaft to the next, the effective tip offset will be different, creating a slightly different amount of squirt, with everything else being equal. This could have an adverse effect on squirt-testing results. In comparing shafts, identical tips should be used. Each shaft should be tested with the same tip size, shape, height, hardness, and weight.​

Regards,
Dave

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Actually, technically speaking, there is a small difference is effective tip offset with shafts of different squirt (per TP B.7 - Effect of squirt on the amount of spin), but the effect is very small. However, practically speaking, I agree with you 100%. An LD shaft does not create more spin.

Yeah, I get lazy and leave out the technical details, even though I know they can be helpful information. You get the tip-in.

pj
chgo

 

[ENGLISH!]

i dont play atm with an LD shaft, but do you all use tons of side spin on every shot? yesterday i played for a couple of hours and i NEVER needed more than half to 1 tip of side english to get my position (9 and 10 ball).

keep your angles and you dont need much sidespin.

BUT im also planning purchasing an LD shaft in the near future... why? i want to try something new out and ive never seen an OB shaft here :grin: Plus the wood ferule looks cool, so maybe im giving it a try. i just fear that it might take the balance point to much to the buttend...

I removed the butt weight on my Adam Balabushka & it's great with the OB Classic & McD i2.

 

[naji]

i dont play atm with an LD shaft, but do you all use tons of side spin on every shot? yesterday i played for a couple of hours and i NEVER needed more than half to 1 tip of side english to get my position (9 and 10 ball).

keep your angles and you dont need much sidespin.

BUT im also planning purchasing an LD shaft in the near future... why? i want to try something new out and ive never seen an OB shaft here :grin: Plus the wood ferule looks cool, so maybe im giving it a try. i just fear that it might take the balance point to much to the buttend...

I find that only time you need more english is on bank shots where CB is far from OB and OB is also 3 diamonds or more from rail such that english lasts longer time on softer hits, and turn the OB. Also, if CB far from the rail after it hits OB. Obviously english also varies with the speed of the shot so it is a balance act.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Obviously english also varies with the speed of the shot...

Revolutions per minute vary with shot speed, but RPMs don't really matter. Revolutions per distance (spin/speed ratio) determines the effect of spin, and the spin/speed ratio is the same at any speed for the same tip/ball contact point.

pj
chgo

 

[Pushout]

If it were me and I was really interested in trying one, I'd call Andy and see what he has to say about it. He make make one of his own design which may or may not be laminated. I've played with laminated ld shafts and didn't like them at all. As others have said, it can be a very tough adjustment if you've never played with them for any length of time and can be even harder to go back to standard shafts. My current playing cue has ld shafts made by the cue maker and are not laminated. The ld effect is from the taper and size and material of the ferrule. These shafts play, for me, the way the laminated shafts were all supposed to play and never did.

 

[KRJ]

If it were me and I was really interested in trying one, I'd call Andy and see what he has to say about it. He make make one of his own design which may or may not be laminated. I've played with laminated ld shafts and didn't like them at all. As others have said, it can be a very tough adjustment if you've never played with them for any length of time and can be even harder to go back to standard shafts. My current playing cue has ld shafts made by the cue maker and are not laminated. The ld effect is from the taper and size and material of the ferrule. These shafts play, for me, the way the laminated shafts were all supposed to play and never did.

After 30 years with maple shafts, using an LD (OB2), and I was hitting shots I've never hit before in the first rack of balls. Never put it down for months, and then at a friends house who wanted to shoot some pool.

I used his standard cue as I didn't bring mine, and I was all over the board. SO, pretty easy adjusting, but going back is not good... I mean, the easy no enlgish shots didn't matter, but anything else was way off, that I just didn't use much English while playing.

The trick is just NEVER go back, and thus no worries

 

[Pushout]

After 30 years with maple shafts, using an LD (OB2), and I was hitting shots I've never hit before in the first rack of balls. Never put it down for months, and then at a friends house who wanted to shoot some pool.

I used his standard cue as I didn't bring mine, and I was all over the board. SO, pretty easy adjusting, but going back is not good... I mean, the easy no enlgish shots didn't matter, but anything else was way off, that I just didn't use much English while playing.

The trick is just NEVER go back, and thus no worries

I can switch back between my current playing cue and my Dishaw with standard shafts with no problem. I was referring more to laminated shafts being harder to adjust to, from what I've heard from others. I can't play with them, myself.

 

[KRJ]

I can switch back between my current playing cue and my Dishaw with standard shafts with no problem. I was referring more to laminated shafts being harder to adjust to, from what I've heard from others. I can't play with them, myself.

Well, I hope so going back from standard to standard is a walk in the park. But learning to shoot with LD is pretty easy... just point and shoot.... going back to standard is harder because now all the adjustments come into play again.

I don't miss that at ALL. I know some folks have naturaly ability to adjust without even blinking and eye...god bless those talented creatures... but for us humans... it's nice to concentrate on the stroke and mechanics